Help with saiga

[johna hex 1]

What's up NJ. What's the deal with the saiga 12. I know no pistol grip on it but what else. What's the stigma?

[lunker 274]

Jersey legal. One for sale at Shore Shot right now.

[PK90 3,573]

huh?

 

ETA: I did not get what the OP was asking?

[M4BGRINGO 139]

You're saying Shore Shot has a Siaga-12 for sale with a pistol grip?

 

The shotguns I saw there for sale with either a pistol grip or a folding stock were pumps.

 

Pretty sure any semi-auto shotgun in NJ can not have a pistol grip.

[lunker 274]

SS has a stock IZ109 (i.e. with sporter stock, no pistol grip).

No pistol grip on semi-auto shotgun in Jersey.

[PK90 3,573]

I have two for sale.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I have two for sale.

 

 

I love mine!

 

I showed a friend a picture of it tonight.. and he was like what caliber is that magazine.. I was like 12 gauge shotgun.. the look on his face was priceless... lol... he just had never seen one before..

[intercooler 41]

I have two for sale.

so how much for said saigas at the fabulous PK90 shop?

[vladtepes 1,060]

so how much for said saigas at the fabulous PK90 shop?

 

picking up the pair... nice..

[johna hex 1]

Yes how much for said saiga if price is right will pick up next week....

[lunker 274]

Guys, I would either go to Paul's website (www.colddeadhands.com) or PM him personally for pricing info.

[johna hex 1]

So what can I change or upgrade on the saiga 12 and still keep it NJ legal

[lunker 274]

No pistol grip. You can put on wood furniture, rails, chokes, muzzle brakes, flash hiders,

[gunnyr 17]

The only thing I'm changing on the s-12 is a better gas knob. I want to be able to adjust it without tools.

[vladtepes 1,060]

smooth and polish the bolt.. it makes a whole lot of difference on most saiga 12s...

[johna hex 1]

Ok but could I put a shroud over handguard or a skeleton stock and would it be NJ legal?

[intercooler 41]

i think the njsp would frown on that...they don't consider a thumbhole or skeleton stock to be any different than a pistol grip

[johna hex 1]

WTF can we in Jersey get anything nice? Are we limited to a magazine capacity because it's a semi? Or can I get a drum mag? ( for looks)

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Tried using my Saiga12 for an outdoor match today, would not cycle, I was using 7 1/2 target load which is my normal Trap Shooting stuff. Does that type of load not have enough powder to cycle the action? Any ideas what to try? Should I just get some buck shot or something else and see if that works?

[Turbotezza 1]

If your gun is bone stock then it won't cycle target loads at all as it was designed for slugs and buck.

 

To get it to work with low brass you'll need to take the gas block off and drillout the existing holes to 3/32 and probably drill an extra hole to the said diameter. Swapping out the stock gas plug with a aftermarket will help also.

 

Head over to the Saiga 12 forums for lots of info on this subject.

 

 

 

Tried using my Saiga12 for an outdoor match today, would not cycle, I was using 7 1/2 target load which is my normal Trap Shooting stuff. Does that type of load not have enough powder to cycle the action? Any ideas what to try? Should I just get some buck shot or something else and see if that works?

[vladtepes 1,060]

first thing is first.. the gun is not broken.. it is a shotgun meant to shoot heavy ammo.. the thing will (or should) run heavy ammo ALL DAY LONG.. the reason it is not working is because you are trying to do something with it that it is not designed to do... that doesn't mean you can NOT use low brass.. just means you need the modifications to make that setup work.. I will list some of the steps I am aware of to rectify your issue..

 

first thing is first.. how did you break the gun in? if you did NOT put a LOT of heavy shotgun ammo through it.. then the gun is likely not even broken in.. and will almost definitely not cycle low brass... first thing to do is grab a bunch of obnoxious ammo heavy heavy loads.. and shoot the gun.. a LOT.. this will actually wear the parts at the contact points.. making it run smoother..

 

MAKE SURE YOU ALWAYS START ON 1 FOR LIGHTER LOADS..

 

just remember.. START with 1.. if the gun runs.. you are done.. 2 is for lighter loads.. and should be used for them.. PROVIDING THE GUN HAS BEEN PROPERLY BROKEN IN AND IS FUNCTIONING PROPERLY... NEVER use HIGH powered ammo on setting 2.. IT WILL BREAK THE GUN... ALWAYS start on ONE...

 

if that does not resolve the issue next is to check and verify that the gas holes are drilled all the way through and all the correct size.. lack of gas will cause the gun to not cycle..

 

there is a LOT of extra material on a Saiga 12 bolt carrier.. it SHOULD be polished and smoothed out (carefully) you can NOT do this if you have no idea what you are doing.. because if you take off too much material.. you are screwed... so be VERY careful.. if you polish it all.. you are good to go IMO.. as it would be hard to remove that much material with JUST polishing.. my bolt is grinded/sanded down in a lot of high friction areas.. and then polished.. but this is something I got pretty comfortable with prior to doing.. this WILL without question make the gun cycle MUCH better.. (ask Paul how much smoother the action on my 12 is.. LOL does not even feel like the same gun..)

 

after all those options are exhausted and you are SURE the gun in its stock form is right.. but still will not cycle low brass.. the next step I would personally investigate is a low brass reliability kit..

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-967/Saiga-12-low-brass/Detail

this is specifically designed to allow you to shoot low brass out of your saiga 12... I am not personally a huge fan..as I am on a quest to see if I can make my factory Saiga cycle low brass with just cleaning up the gun in stock form.. BEFORE I opt to throw parts at it..

 

hang in there you have an awesome gun.. just got to get it dialed in for YOUR needs..

[lunker 274]

Go to Saiga Forums. There is a member there calley Pauly that will take your bolt and trigger assembly and completely smooth out all the rough spots for $100 (return shipping w/insurance inuded). I had my parts back six days after I mailed themto him. That and a $20 MD Arms adjustable gas plug will make your gun run like a raped ape.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Go to Saiga Forums. There is a member there calley Pauly that will take your bolt and trigger assembly and completely smooth out all the rough spots for $100 (return shipping w/insurance inuded). I had my parts back six days after I mailed themto him. That and a $20 MD Arms adjustable gas plug will make your gun run like a raped ape.

 

 

not if his holes are drilled incorrectly.. I agree with you that he does great work (from what I have seen there..) but right solution for the right problem.. if 2 of the holes are not drilled all the way through... and the other is out of spec.. or something crazy (as HAS happened with these guns) he can smooth that bolt out all he wants and the gun is never going to run right on low brass.. I agree that his (pauly) service is good.. but think you can get pretty close yourself with patience.. even if he does send it in.. I think he should verify the other (free things) first..

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Thanks Anthony and crew, I knew you guys could help!

 

Gun is brand-new from MD Arms with their gas plug that I installed. I did nothing to it except for their aluminum plug and cleaned it. Today was the first day out with it. I did not buy it for shooting light loads, just figured I would try it out for the heck of it.

 

I wanted to go knock the steels over with the stock, would have been faster......

 

Anyway, just got back with a few boxes of buck shot to run through it. I will check the gas ports and see what setting I have the thing on, I think I left it on #1.

 

Msy need to make a road trip to see you Anthony, would like to get this thing to feel smoother.

[lunker 274]

 

Anyway, just got back with a few boxes of buck shot to run through it. I will check the gas ports and see what setting I have the thing on, I think I left it on #1.

 

 

I don't think I was able to get slugs to cycle on MD Arms plug setting 1. That is severely undergassed. I have to think it is for 3" magnum loads. I found that buck shot cycled well on 3 (two if I was using stout stuff). Four and five were for birdshot. Five would cycle the lightest loads I could find (Winchester 7 1/2 Target I think). Just make sure you always check the setting before shooting. It won't take long for you to batter the hell out of the rear trunion if you run heavy buck/slugs in birdshot settings. The reverse won't do your gun any harm, but it will become a single shot.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I don't think I was able to get slugs to cycle on MD Arms plug setting 1. That is severely undergassed. I have to think it is for 3" magnum loads. I found that buck shot cycled well on 3 (two if I was using stout stuff). Four and five were for birdshot. Five would cycle the lightest loads I could find (Winchester 7 1/2 Target I think). Just make sure you always check the setting before shooting. It won't take long for you to batter the hell out of the rear trunion if you run heavy buck/slugs in birdshot settings. The reverse won't do your gun any harm, but it will become a single shot.

 

 

more info than I have on that specific product (the plug).. good to know! I have seen some pretty mangled rear trunions on saiga 12..

[vladtepes 1,060]

Thanks Anthony and crew, I knew you guys could help!

 

Gun is brand-new from MD Arms with their gas plug that I installed. I did nothing to it except for their aluminum plug and cleaned it. Today was the first day out with it. I did not buy it for shooting light loads, just figured I would try it out for the heck of it.

 

I wanted to go knock the steels over with the stock, would have been faster......

 

Anyway, just got back with a few boxes of buck shot to run through it. I will check the gas ports and see what setting I have the thing on, I think I left it on #1.

 

Msy need to make a road trip to see you Anthony, would like to get this thing to feel smoother.

 

getting ready for the big move but can try to make time for you if you get jammed up..

 

but to start.. I would check the ports make sure they look decent.. then make sure that plug is on the setting for the hottest loads (1 on a factory saiga) and then just dumb a bunch of heavy buck through it to loosen it up.. just do that as a starting point.. then maybe clean up the bolt and all.. my gun cycles smoothly.. but is still ammo picky.. I am probably going to clean my bolt up just a hair more.. and dump some more ammo through it.. my gas ports look right.. so I do not THINK that it is an issue in my gun...

 

just give a yell if you need a hand..

[M4BGRINGO 139]

I took it apart today. All three gas port holes are clear. I don't get the settings. Yes, they have a 1 and 2 position. The MD Arms aluminum piston (or whatever you want to call it) sits behind the original Saiga piece that unscrews. All I see those two settings change is pre-load on the MD Arms piece. If I screw it all the way in that gives me setting #1. If I depress the pin and unscrew it 1/2 a turn I get setting #2. I can certainly unscrew it more and let it click and lock back into #1 or #2 as I unscrew it further. Guess that gives you a 3, 4, etc...... setting.

 

So......... I put it back together set at #1. I will run some buckshot through it during the week sometime. I did not buy this for birdshot so I don't care if it doesn't work well with 7 1/2. As long as buck shot cycles the gun I'm good to go!

 

Wanna tell me exactly what I am changing when I depress the pin and unscrew that outer piece?

 

Anthony, what were you polishing inside? I don't mind taking apart the gas system, but I didn't want to touch that trigger group underneath it. I know my luck..............

[vladtepes 1,060]

I took it apart today. All three gas port holes are clear. I don't get the settings. Yes, they have a 1 and 2 position. The MD Arms aluminum piston (or whatever you want to call it) sits behind the original Saiga piece that unscrews. All I see those two settings change is pre-load on the MD Arms piece. If I screw it all the way in that gives me setting #1. If I depress the pin and unscrew it 1/2 a turn I get setting #2. I can certainly unscrew it more and let it click and lock back into #1 or #2 as I unscrew it further. Guess that gives you a 3, 4, etc...... setting.

 

So......... I put it back together set at #1. I will run some buckshot through it during the week sometime. I did not buy this for birdshot so I don't care if it doesn't work well with 7 1/2. As long as buck shot cycles the gun I'm good to go!

 

Wanna tell me exactly what I am changing when I depress the pin and unscrew that outer piece?

 

Anthony, what were you polishing inside? I don't mind taking apart the gas system, but I didn't want to touch that trigger group underneath it. I know my luck..............

 

 

the settings for 1 and 2 determine how much gas is introduced onto the piston thus cycling the shotgun..

 

1 allows the least amount of gas to act onto the system.. protecting you from over gassing the gun with heavy loads..

2 allows more gas to cycle lighter more stubborn loads..

 

shooting heavy loads on 2 will cause pieces inside to bang against one another causing abnormal wear which will likely lead to failure..

the idea is to use the LIGHTEST setting you can and still cycle the gun.. some aftermarket gas plugs have more than just 2 settings which I thought you had.. but what it sounds like you have.. is the booster puck.. can you tell me exactly what you installed?

 

as far as the bolt goes.. let me find the link on saiga12.. there is a decent write up with some good info about what will help.. and what will ruin the gun.. the WHOLE bolt can be "polished" polished being the key word.. if you get aggressive in there.. sanding.. grinding.. then you have to be more careful..

 

understanding the difference is that polishing is removing micro particles of material.. the alternative being sanding/grinding in which you are re-profiling things a little (evening out harsh edges and all).. which is more hairy..

 

so what exactly have you installed?

[lunker 274]

There is a gas plug made by MD Arms that has five settings. You are still using the stock plug. It only has two settings. I have seen pictures of screwed up factory gas plugs. You should compare yours visually to a good one. The Saiga forums have pics of good and bad ones.