Star Ledger article on AIRSOFT

[Genewarper111 18]

... can be read here:

 

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/01/airsoft_bb_guns.html

 

The article discusses the opening of indoor ranges where kid can play out heir computer games, using airsoft guns. It rapidly dives into the need for control of these "weapons" and the dangers they pose to society.

 

I posted a comment, lets see what happens...

G

[RecessedFilter 222]

I understand that most of them are gun replicas (aesthetically) and that it is hard to distinguish an airsoft gun next to a real gun, but come on! Kids won't be able to be kids anymore.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

I added a comment too.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

G:

Read the article and your comment. We have debated the very issue about airsoft guns meeting the definition of a firearm as defined in 2C:39-1,f

 

"Firearm" means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, automatic or semi-automatic rifle, or any gun, device or instrument in the nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected any solid projectable ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or any gas, vapor or other noxious thing, by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances. It shall also include, without limitation, any firearm which is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.

 

To my eye it does indeed meet this definition with the gray area being whether airsoft BB's can cause "injury". Since injury isn't defined, airsoft slips through the cracks. There was an attempt to better define airsoft as firearms, but it didn't make it through the legislature.

 

Then I read your response, which contained the following...

 

You quote an attorney who says that air guns are firearms under NJ law. This is true. However, they must meet defined power and force criteria and AIRSOFT GUNS DO NOT MEET THESE CRITERIA.

 

Now I'm really curious as to where the power & force criteria are located in the statutes. Please enlighten. Thanks

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Gorilla800lbs 12]

Paintball markers have a much greater potential to produce an injury than Airsoft. I wonder if past summer was the last time I got to play paintball in NJ.

[Genewarper111 18]

Bob - you're right - I posted off the cuff without checking. Exactly what I criticised the Author for.

 

I've posted an apology.

 

thank you

[Genewarper111 18]

... which they have yet to post.....

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

If I were the owners of these two new airsoft ventures, I'm not so sure I'd look positively on this article. While some may think that any publicity is good publicity, with a venture such as this, and given the recent incidents, I think I'd keep my head down and fly under the radar.

 

I'm cerrtainly not a proponent of regulating toys, at least to the extent these would be regulated if someone decides they do meet the definition of a firearm. By the letter of the law, they do exactly that, with the only gray area being: Are they capable of inflicting injury. The article cites the CPSC as coming up with some hazy estimate of 22K injuries in 2009. However, read that carefully, it is not just airsoft guns, that estimate applied to all non-powder (assuming they mean gunpowder - The Star Ledger's auto-correct probably deletes that word) pellet guns. Irrelevant to a liberal bureaucrat - all they see is that someone is tabulating injuries caused by airsoft; ergo, airsoft is capable of inflicting injury; ergo, airsoft guns are firearms. For the libs, the beauty of this is that it won't even require legislation - they can bypass the legislature all together (ala Obama) and with a simple stroke of the AG's interpretive pen, Bingo - airsoft is now regulated like real guns.

 

It can happen, and with all the publicity currently being generated, it may be bound to happen.

 

Discuss.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Bob - would you post some of that stuff up in the article comments? Like the CPSC facts, etc?

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Bob - would you post some of that stuff up in the article comments? Like the CPSC facts, etc?

 

Here is the article linked to in the OP...

 

A looming figure cloaked in black peaks around the post-apocalyptic corner of a shuttered building. The commando is ready for anything, wearing a gas mask and a vest packed with ammo to feed his assault weapon. A terrorist is out there amid the ruins aiming a sniper rifle, crouching beneath the window of a dilapidated shack. The commando steps out and pulls the trigger. His weapon doesn’t fire bullets, however. It shoots colorful plastic beads that rain down like confetti.

 

Airsoft BB guns are replicas that launch lightweight plastic projectiles. Among combat sports hobbyists, the splatter of paintball is giving way to the pop of pellets. The realistic appearance of airsoft pistols and rifles is a key part of the appeal. But with that authenticity comes some public safety concerns.

 

"The most tragic stories are when a child holds one of these guns and a policeman comes along and feels threatened and fires," says Stephen Teret, associate dean and former director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research. "The manufacturers who make these guns know they can be indistinguishable from real guns even by firearms experts. It’s something that people have tried to address through legislation, regulation and litigation but so far, they haven’t been successful."

Gun control advocates are sounding alarm bells, particularly because the mock weapons are being embraced by youngsters.

 

"There’s no such thing as a gun that has no danger," says Rev. Robert Moore, executive director of the Coalition for Peace Action in Princeton. "This whole softening of the distinction between real and pretend guns is a slippery slope."

 

In New Jersey, it is illegal to openly carry airsoft guns. Although there are no stringent regulations on sales of the imitation firearms — priced between $25 and $1,500 - they must be stored and transported in locked cases. "People who are using these guns should obtain a permit," says South Orange criminal attorney, Todd Palumbo. "Under the letter of the law in this state, air guns are considered weapons."

 

The spring-powered devices are designed to be kinder, gentler BB guns, propelling balls of recycled plastic that don’t fly as fast as conventional copper-coated pellets, translating into "softer" hits. Over the past four months, two new arenas for military-themed games and reenactments have opened in North Jersey. The Airsoft Factory in Bridgewater and Stryker Airsoft in Hackettstown are indoor labyrinths of fake buildings designed to evoke the dark mood of video games like Call of Duty.

 

The BB boom is an outgrowth of the recession, as a growing number of suburban warriors are favoring plastic over paintball because it’s easier on the wallet. "You can get 5,000 BB’s for $9 compared to 2,000 paintballs for as much as $70," says Patrick Demarzo, owner of the Airsoft Factory and Godfather Airsoft store in Green Brook. "Paintball is a mess and it leaves bruises. People who have real firearms practice with Airsoft because ammo is so costly."

 

According to the most recent survey by the Consumer Product Safety Commission, airsoft and other non-powder pellet guns caused an estimated 22,000 injuries in 2009. The same report estimated that bicycles caused more than half a million injuries.

 

At the Airsoft Factory and Stryker, participants are required to wear layers of safety gear including masks and chest guards. Both venues prohibit patrons from entering with guns out of their cases.

 

"Using these guns in a controlled environment is the way to go," says Josh Horwitz, executive director of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. "It’s better than having kids playing cops and robbers out in the street."

 

Airsoft Factory manager, Gabriel Lamberty says the devices can be used as tools to teach firearms safety.

"People are going to have guns no matter what," says Lamberty. "I think the best thing to do is to make sure everyone’s educated as far as the proper way to handle guns. If kids know how to properly handle a firearm, hopefully that will decrease some of the problems in the future."

 

Anthony Farro of Rockaway celebrated his 12th birthday at the Stryker arena. He and his friends played capture the flag amid a maze of tents and shacks strewn with fake jungle greenery. Smoke curled from a fog machine beneath a Jeep as the room echoed with pops of plastic gunfire. "I’ve played Airsoft outside but this is my first time playing it indoors," says Farro. "I like it better indoors. They have all this stuff in here to make it look like war."

 

Farro’s father, Frank says that toy guns are a rite of passage and not necessarily a gateway to real firearms.

"I had a toy gun growing up," says Frank. "It’s just part of the culture of preteen boys. With Airsoft, the kids are out getting some exercise, building camaraderie and learning teamwork. It’s better than sitting at home playing a video game. People think BB guns condone violence and warfare but I just see it as a phase boys go through. I don’t think it leads to anything else."

[halbautomatisch 60]

If I were the owners of these two new airsoft ventures, I'm not so sure I'd look positively on this article. While some may think that any publicity is good publicity, with a venture such as this, and given the recent incidents, I think I'd keep my head down and fly under the radar.

 

I'm cerrtainly not a proponent of regulating toys, at least to the extent these would be regulated if someone decides they do meet the definition of a firearm. By the letter of the law, they do exactly that, with the only gray area being: Are they capable of inflicting injury. The article cites the CPSC as coming up with some hazy estimate of 22K injuries in 2009. However, read that carefully, it is not just airsoft guns, that estimate applied to all non-powder (assuming they mean gunpowder - The Star Ledger's auto-correct probably deletes that word) pellet guns. Irrelevant to a liberal bureaucrat - all they see is that someone is tabulating injuries caused by airsoft; ergo, airsoft is capable of inflicting injury; ergo, airsoft guns are firearms. For the libs, the beauty of this is that it won't even require legislation - they can bypass the legislature all together (ala Obama) and with a simple stroke of the AG's interpretive pen, Bingo - airsoft is now regulated like real guns.

 

It can happen, and with all the publicity currently being generated, it may be bound to happen.

 

Discuss.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

I believe the state went round the horn with this 25 or so years ago with paintball guns when they first come on the scene. The state tried to classify them as firearms and the manufacturers sued, they (obviously) won and and paintball guns are not construed as firearms. I would say the same arguments could be made about paintball guns as airsoft with regard to injury, but a judge ruled they are not firearms because they are not primarily designed to injure.

[NicePants 58]

I believe the state went round the horn with this 25 or so years ago with paintball guns when they first come on the scene. The state tried to classify them as firearms and the manufacturers sued, they (obviously) won and and paintball guns are not construed as firearms. I would say the same arguments could be made about paintball guns as airsoft with regard to injury, but a judge ruled they are not firearms because they are not primarily designed to injure.

 

By that logic, any type of match grade firearm shouldn't be considered a firearm, because they are primarily designed for increased performance in competition shooting.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

_{Paintball guns do not meet the definition of a firearm as the projectile they eject is larger than 3/8"...}

 

_{...or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.}

 

_{...such is not the case with airsoft and its 6mm projectiles.}

 

_Adios,

 

_{PIzza Bob}

[Gorilla800lbs 12]

A-ha, thanks! I didn't pay attention to that part.

[302w 83]

Paintball markers have a much greater potential to produce an injury than Airsoft. I wonder if past summer was the last time I got to play paintball in NJ.

 

Airsoft injuries are a lot more common than Paintball. Ignoring things like sprained ankles and such from running around in the woods, the most damage you are going to get in paintball is a bruise or welt if you get shot at a short distance. Most airsofters wear only goggles or shooting glasses. I've seen teeth get shot out.

 

I also saw someone light a smoke bomb, turn around, and chuck it into someones face because they didn't know they were there. Kinda funny to see.

[GiantsFan 22]

_{Paintball guns do not meet the definition of a firearm as the projectile they eject is larger than 3/8"...}

 

_{...or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.}

 

_{...such is not the case with airsoft and its 6mm projectiles.}

 

_Adios,

 

_{PIzza Bob}

 

I don't get it because 6mm = 1/5th of an inch

3/8" = 10mm

 

so the 6mm of an "airsoft" gun should then qualify as a firearm, no?

[Gorilla800lbs 12]

GiantsFan: I figure this is because Airsoft does not produce "sufficient force to injure a person".

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

I don't get it because 6mm = 1/5th of an inch

3/8" = 10mm

 

so the 6mm of an "airsoft" gun should then qualify as a firearm, no?

 

Precisely. Actually 6mm is closer to a quarter inch. 6mm = .243"

 

 

GiantsFan: I figure this is because Airsoft does not produce "sufficient force to injure a person".

 

That is the gray area. What constitutes an injury?

[PK90 3,573]

[Darkmagik 2]

I suffered an injury from airsoft back in 09 i slipped on a rock after being in mud and mush and so I don't fall and break my gun I atempted to catch myself while in the process I tore my muscle and pulled my tendon. I never actually fell and my airsoft gun broke later that day anyway the internals were funky. Honestly if they are treated like gun that will cripple thousands of airsoft users in NJ not allowing them to play and enjoy themselves. This will criminalize thousands of people that can't buy a real gun so they buy replicas. Yes I got injury, but it was something that could have happened hunting, at the range, as a police officer searching for someone, hiking, fishing, or anything outdoors in the woods so lets make that illegal too yea okay they need to focus on things that are truthfully dangerous to us like drugs and their dealers and gang members they cause more problems than a bunch of metal and plastic toys it and in the worst case it makes a darn good PAPER WEIGHT!!!!

[dino71 4]

I don't get it because 6mm = 1/5th of an inch

3/8" = 10mm

 

so the 6mm of an "airsoft" gun should then qualify as a firearm, no?

 

6mm/25.4= 0.236, that would be closer to a 1/4" than 1/5"

[Gorilla800lbs 12]

That is the gray area. What constitutes an injury?

 

Honestly, I am not very well versed on the legal side of the topic, so I don't know. But I figure that the Airsoft-type equipment is primarily used for sporting purposes against live opponent in an environment where chances of injury are controlled and mitigated, whereas BB and pellet guns are used for target shooting and hunting, where the focus is directly on the destructive qualities of the equipment and the likelihood of lasting or permanent injury is almost guaranteed.

[Qel Hoth 33]

Honestly, I am not very well versed on the legal side of the topic, so I don't know. But I figure that the Airsoft-type equipment is primarily used for sporting purposes against live opponent in an environment where chances of injury are controlled and mitigated, whereas BB and pellet guns are used for target shooting and hunting, where the focus is directly on the destructive qualities of the equipment and the likelihood of lasting or permanent injury is almost guaranteed.

 

Regardless of the intent, injury is not defined. An injury is whatever a prosecutor can convince a judge and jury is an injury...

[AnthonyG 36]

There was a situation by my gf's the other day with airsoft guns, 4 teens were walking with hooded sweat shirts and bandanna's over their faces toward a elementary school with "rifles" cops were called by numerous people and I dont blame people for calling cops seeing a situation like that. They had airsoft rifles without the orange tips and the cops were ready to draw their guns when they approached because they weren't sure of the situation.

The cops told this to my gf and her family since her mother was one of the callers when she was driving home. So they stopped by to explain the situation, basically kids were gonna have a airsoft battle behind the school and were dressed that way to protect themselves from the pellets. The cops told the kids to get into the woods and dont walk around the streets like that.

There is nothing wrong with kids being kids, but parents need to realize that their kids for the most part dont think, its situations like this that cause people to want regulations, kids need to be taught to be more responsible. Their parents need to be smarter and get these kids cases to carry their airsoft guns to the fields so they dont scare everyone else. If you want something to looks like the real thing you need to show consideration for the laws that surround having that real thing.

[Maksim 1,504]

+1.... and say NJ was a CCW state... and say these kids decided to paint the tips black.

 

Would of been an interesting article.

 

I think airsoft is a great training tool, and I do not think they should be regulated as firearms, however the parents need to get in and actually parent. Kids are getting real stupid these days (or I am just getting older).... they need to know that these airsoft, unlike paintball guns, look and feel just like real guns, and as such should be treated as such.

 

Btw, for anyone who thinks airsoft are just toys.... go look at a real airsoft gun, one that costs more than $20. They are all metal, exact replicas, most of them licensed to have the exact badges, and short of shooting, feel just like the real thing in your hand. I had the pleasure of shooting a Glock and FN Scar 16 airsofts. when they were handed to me, I did not know they were real until looking at the muzzle and actually shooting them. Weight, feel, all as real as the real ones. The difference is the projectile.

[Gorilla800lbs 12]

There is already a law on the books that makes a display of "imitation weapons" an offense if it's done in a way that implies an illegal use.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Regardless of the intent, injury is not defined. An injury is whatever a prosecutor can convince a judge and jury is an injury...

 

And what would lend credence to a prosecutor's position is that, according to the article in the OP, the CPSC is tabulating "injuries", which, of course, infers that they ar capable of creating injury.