Legality of AW BB replicas

[Gorilla800lbs 12]

Dear esteemed experts,

 

At the risk of asking yet another "is this gun legal?" question, I hope you can help me parse the 2C:39 when it comes to such thing as manufacturer licensed, BB or pellet-firing replicas of weapons that are enumerated as assault.

 

A perfect example is an MP5 PDW replica produced by Umarex. Edit: CO2 powered, shoots .177 BBs.

 

 

 

1. "Banned by name". "H&K MP5" is printed right there on the frame, but it's obviously not THE H&K MP5. It's an officially licensed replica which could as well be machined out of cheese or fine chocolate, so... But then again, 2C-39-1w says "any firearm..." that has a listed name, and this product is a firearm (according to NJ) and its name is on the list...

 

2. "Substantially identical". Despite being visually identical, this is not THE H&K MP5. One cannot expect, say, Secret Service or Delta squads to be able to use it interchangeably with the real MP5 PDW.

 

3. Limitations on stock, pistol grip etc -- do not seem to apply because this weapon doesn't match the 2C-39 definition of a "rifle" or a "shotgun".

 

4. High-capacity magazine -- definitely evil, but nothing that a pinning by a qualified FFL gunsmith wouldn't solve?

 

What is your opinion?

 

Thanks,

G.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

If it was the Airsoft version, it'd be legal - Airsoft guns are not classified as firearms in NJ or any other state.

[tommy3rd 132]

If it was the Airsoft version, it'd be legal - Airsoft guns are not classified as firearms in NJ or any other state.

for now. After recent events I won't be surprised if something is already in the works. Get ready for the permits and background checks.

[Kaiser7 33]

If I'm not mistaken, Umarex is a German manufacturer of airsoft guns. Airsoft guns are currently not banned. They somehow fall through the cracks in the law, since their projectile is plastic, and usually the energy is > 1 Joule. You can own that airsoft gun, in fact, I know people who do.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

for now. After recent events I won't be surprised if something is already in the works. Get ready for the permits and background checks.

 

There's already a bill in the legislature that would classify Airsoft guns as firearms.... struck down each time it comes up.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

If I'm not mistaken, Umarex is a German manufacturer of airsoft guns. Airsoft guns are currently not banned. They somehow fall through the cracks in the law, since their projectile is plastic, and usually the energy is > 1 Joule. You can own that airsoft gun, in fact, I know people who do.

 

The version he has linked is the .177cal version.

[Gorilla800lbs 12]

Sorry guys, forgot to clarify. This is a C02 powered .177 cal BB gun, not a bona fide Airsoft.

[robot_hell 72]

You need an FID to buy long BB guns and P2P for BB handguns. Therefore I surmise it is an AW per NJ law

[Gorilla800lbs 12]

Assuming I have a FID. Not sure I'd need a P2P since this is not a handgun.

[vladtepes 1,060]

You need an FID to buy long BB guns and P2P for BB handguns. Therefore I surmise it is an AW per NJ law

 

if it is a BB gun..

NJ considers BB guns firearms...

 

as nuts as it sounds.. I would assume all firearms laws apply to BB guns..

 

if it were an airsoft gun.. no such rules would apply..

[Gorilla800lbs 12]

To make my question clearer -- there is no doubt that per NJ statutes this is a firearm. Subject to all purchase restrictions (FID). My rumination is whether it is a NJ-legal firearm (40-round magazine capacity issue notwithstanding).

[vladtepes 1,060]

To make my question clearer -- there is no doubt that per NJ statutes this is a firearm. Subject to all purchase restrictions (FID). My rumination is whether it is a NJ-legal firearm (40-round magazine capacity issue notwithstanding).

 

here is the answer..

 

technically NJ makes NO distinction between BB gun and regular firearm..

so as absurd as the following statement is.. it is for all practical purposes fact..

 

a BB gun.. would technically fall under the same exact laws as guns..

 

a semi automatic "rifle" BB gun that has a detachable magazine.. that is semi automatic meaning one shot per trigger pull without having to manually do something in between the shot.. as in continuous uninterrupted shooting

would have to satisfy the minimum length

would have to have a mag capacity less than 15 bbs

could not more than ONE of the following features..

folding or telescoping stock

pistol grip

bayonet mount

(the other two not even worth mentioning are flash hider and grenade launcher)

 

the gun you posted represents basically EVERY evil feature on NJ books..

since NJ makes no distinction between BB guns and real guns.. it would be HIGHLY illegal.. in the same way the actual gun would be illegal..

 

ANY semi auto BB gun with detachable mag would have to satisfy the identical laws of NJ firearms...

 

 

now in practice this has never been an issue that I am aware of.. but since by LAW it is CLEARLY illegal I would never touch it in a million years.. I am not into following imaginary laws.. but I also will not ignore literal laws even if they seem incredibly silly..

 

and literally that BB gun is TOTALLY illegal in NJ..

[Gorilla800lbs 12]

Vlad, thanks for the detailed response, because it goes to the heart of the argument I am trying to present: the restrictive characteristics you are listing are proscribed for semi-automatic rifles.

 

 

A semi-automatic rifle

that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least

two of the following:

(1) A folding or telescoping stock;

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(3) A bayonet mount;

(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash

suppressor; and

(5) A grenade launcher

 

The point that I am trying (perhaps not clearly) to make is that this "firearm" is not a semi-automatic rifle, because the law describes same as:

 

 

 

"

Rifle

" means any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and using the

energy of the

explosive

in a

fixed metallic cartridge

to fire a single projectile through a

rifled bore

for each single

pull of the trigger

 

There are no explosives used as propellants, no fixed metallic cartridges housing each projectile round, and the barrel here is smooth bore.

 

However, reading the Chapter 54 carefully now, I see that this weapon could be seen as a shotgun?!?!

[vladtepes 1,060]

Vlad, thanks for the detailed response, because it goes to the heart of the argument I am trying to present: the restrictive characteristics you are listing are proscribed for semi-automatic rifles.

 

 

A semi-automatic rifle

that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least

two of the following:

(1) A folding or telescoping stock;

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(3) A bayonet mount;

(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash

suppressor; and

(5) A grenade launcher

 

The point that I am trying (perhaps not clearly) to make is that this "firearm" is not a semi-automatic rifle, because the law describes same as:

 

 

 

"

Rifle

" means any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and using the

energy of the

explosive

in a

fixed metallic cartridge

to fire a single projectile through a

rifled bore

for each single

pull of the trigger

 

There are no explosives used as propellants, no fixed metallic cartridges housing each projectile round, and the barrel here is smooth bore.

 

However, reading the Chapter 54 carefully now, I see that this weapon could be seen as a shotgun?!?!

 

it could be seen however they want to see it.. I would just not take the chance based on how BB guns are viewed....

[PK90 3,570]

It is a firearm as per NJS 2C:39-1f.

It is not a rifle per NJS 2C:39-1m.

It is an assault weapon per NJS 2C:39-1w(2).

It is not any of the three per NJS 13:54-1.2(2i)

 

:unknw:

[vladtepes 1,060]

if it IS a "shotgun" any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder which does not fire fixed ammunition. then the laws are even more strict..

[vladtepes 1,060]

It is a firearm as per NJS 2C:39-1f.

It is not a rifle per NJS 2C:39-1m.

It is an assault weapon per NJS 2C:39-1w(2).

It is not any of the three per NJS 13:54-1.2(2i)

 

:unknw:

 

lol

[Gorilla800lbs 12]

LOL indeed.

 

 

...

It is an assault weapon per NJS 2C:39-1w(2).

:unknw:

 

Maybe by 1w(1) (by "name" -- and that's a stretch), but definitely not 1w(2). It's not substantially identical other than by visual appearance. It will not do a real MP5's job. The discrepancies go far beyond the examples of the superficial discrepancies 54-1.1.

 

 

if it IS a "shotgun" any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder which does not fire fixed ammunition. then the laws are even more strict..

 

Could be, because that's exactly what 54-5 says.

 

"Shotgun" means any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and using the energy of the

explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shots or asingle projectile for each pull of the trigger,

or any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder which does not fire fixed ammunition.

 

A smooth-bore BB or pellet long gun is a "shotgun". A crossbow with a stock is a "shotgun". Daym.

[halbautomatisch 60]

You are all forgetting about federal law, which preempts state law. No state can BAN the sale of air guns.

 

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/usc_sec_15_00005001----000-.html

 

U.S. Code

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TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 76 > § 5001

 

§ 5001. Penalties for entering into commerce of imitation firearms

 

How Current is This?

(a) Acts prohibited

It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, enter into commerce, ship, transport, or receive any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm unless such firearm contains, or has affixed to it, a marking approved by the Secretary of Commerce, as provided in subsection (b) of this section.

(b) Distinctive marking or device; exception; waiver; adjustments and changes

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2) or (3), each toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm shall have as an integral part, permanently affixed, a blaze orange plug inserted in the barrel of such toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm. Such plug shall be recessed no more than 6 millimeters from the muzzle end of the barrel of such firearm.

(2) The Secretary of Commerce may provide for an alternate marking or device for any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm not capable of being marked as provided in paragraph (1) and may waive the requirement of any such marking or device for any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm that will only be used in the theatrical, movie or television industry.

(3) The Secretary is authorized to make adjustments and changes in the marking system provided for by this section, after consulting with interested persons.

© “Look-alike firearm” defined

For purposes of this section, the term “look-alike firearm” means any imitation of any original firearm which was manufactured, designed, and produced since 1898, including and limited to toy guns, water guns, replica nonguns, and air-soft guns firing nonmetallic projectiles. Such term does not include any look-alike, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or traditional B–B, paint-ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.

(d) Study and report

The Director of the Bureau of Justice Statistics is authorized and directed to conduct a study of the criminal misuse of toy, look-alike and imitation firearms, including studying police reports of such incidences and shall report on such incidences relative to marked and unmarked firearms.

©  1 Technical evaluation of marking systems

The Director of ^[2] National Institute of Justice is authorized and directed to conduct a technical evaluation of the marking systems provided for in subsection (b) of this section to determine their effectiveness in police combat situations. The Director shall begin the study within 3 months after November 5, 1988, and such study shall be completed within 9 months after November 5, 1988.

(f) Effective date

This section shall become effective on the date 6 months after November 5, 1988, and shall apply to toy, look-alike, and imitation firearms manufactured or entered into commerce after November 5, 1988.

(g) Preemption of State or local laws or ordinances; exceptions

The provisions of this section shall supersede any provision of State or local laws or ordinances which provide for markings or identification inconsistent with provisions of this section provided that no State shall—

(i) prohibit the sale or manufacture of any look-alike, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or

<a name="g_ii"> (ii) prohibit the sale (other than prohibiting the sale to minors) of traditional B–B, paint ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.

[vladtepes 1,060]

You are all forgetting about federal law, which preempts state law. No state can BAN the sale of air guns.

 

 

 

I pick and choose my battles.. and the payout in this situation seems not worth the fight.. may be for you..

NJ ACTIVELY considers BB guns firearms.. AND actively regulates the sale of them..

so I just don't know for sure.. it is a matter I am not familiar enough with..

[halbautomatisch 60]

There is a court ruling on this matter : http://www.constitution.org/2ll/bardwell/cnjs_v_florio.txt

 

This is the relevant part.

 

FURTHER ORDERED that plaintiffs' motion for a preliminary

injunction be and is hereby granted in part; and it is

 

FURTHER ORDERED that defendants, their employees, officers,

and/or agents be and are hereby preliminarily enjoined from

enforcement of or prosecution under, N.J.S.A. 2C:39-3(j), and

N.J.S.A. 2C:39-9(h) against any and all owners of semi-automatic B-

B or pellet-firing air guns whose guns contain non-detachable

magazines in excess of fifteen (15) rounds; and it is

 

FURTHER ORDERED that defendants, their employees, officers,

and/or agents be and are hereby preliminarily enjoined from

enforcement of, or prosecution under, N.J S.A. 2C:39-5(f) and

N.J.S.A. 2C:39-9(g) against any and all owners of semi-automatic B-

B or pellet-firing air guns whose guns are designed to be fired

from the: shoulder, and have either a magazine capacity in excess

of six (6) rounds, a folding stock, or a pistol grip; and it is

 

 

If the OP's airgun has a detachable mag, I'm not sure where that would fall.

[vladtepes 1,060]

There is a court ruling on this matter : http://www.constitut...js_v_florio.txt

 

This is the relevant part.

 

FURTHER ORDERED that plaintiffs' motion for a preliminary

injunction be and is hereby granted in part; and it is

 

FURTHER ORDERED that defendants, their employees, officers,

and/or agents be and are hereby preliminarily enjoined from

enforcement of or prosecution under, N.J.S.A. 2C:39-3(j), and

N.J.S.A. 2C:39-9(h) against any and all owners of semi-automatic B-

B or pellet-firing air guns whose guns contain non-detachable

magazines in excess of fifteen (15) rounds; and it is

 

FURTHER ORDERED that defendants, their employees, officers,

and/or agents be and are hereby preliminarily enjoined from

enforcement of, or prosecution under, N.J S.A. 2C:39-5(f) and

N.J.S.A. 2C:39-9(g) against any and all owners of semi-automatic B-

B or pellet-firing air guns whose guns are designed to be fired

from the: shoulder, and have either a magazine capacity in excess

of six (6) rounds, a folding stock, or a pistol grip; and it is

 

 

If the OP's airgun has a detachable mag, I'm not sure where that would fall.

 

it has detachable mag... so as speculated... he would likely win.. for all the reasons you stated.. but with the area of uncertainty there might be a legal battle played out.. I am all for by the law by the book.. and it LOOKS like fed law says it is ok.. but just too unclear for me..

[Gorilla800lbs 12]

halbautomatisch: this is great! Looks like latter part of the ruling expressly renders the 2C:39-9 irrelevant when applied to BB and pellet guns, even though they're still might be considered firearms. I am still not sure I want to roll the dice, but it's heartwarming to know that the law is not quite as insanse as it seems, at least when it is brought up to scrutiny at court.

[vladtepes 1,060]

halbautomatisch: this is great! Looks like latter part of the ruling expressly renders the 2C:39-9 irrelevant when applied to BB and pellet guns, even though they're still might be considered firearms. I am still not sure I want to roll the dice, but it's heartwarming to know that the law is not quite as insanse as it seems, at least when it is brought up to scrutiny at court.

 

the gun you are referring to has a detachable mag.. the ruling he quoted talks about fixed mags.. AND the fact that there is even a court case about it... shows you that there IS potential for legal woes.. I am in no way attempting to fear monger.. but I would be very cautious as this entire area appears to lack any real clarity..

[halbautomatisch 60]

the gun you are referring to has a detachable mag.. the ruling he quoted talks about fixed mags.. AND the fact that there is even a court case about it... shows you that there IS potential for legal woes.. I am in no way attempting to fear monger.. but I would be very cautious as this entire area appears to lack any real clarity..

 

FYI - the court case I quoted came about though a lawsuit that tried to have NJ's AWB ruled unconstitutional, not because someone got jammed up. I would think the OP's air gun is legal because of the federal preemption, but as you said, it might take another court case to be sure. I personally would not want to go through that to find out.

[Gorilla800lbs 12]

Neither do I. Your advice is very well taken, gentlemen, thanks a lot.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

It is a firearm as per NJS 2C:39-1f.

It is not a rifle per NJS 2C:39-1m.

It is an assault weapon per NJS 2C:39-1w(2).

It is not any of the three per NJS 13:54-1.2(2i)

 

:unknw:

 

lol

[Gorilla800lbs 12]

Courtesy of njJoniGuy, re-posting from another thread the legislative book of work for 2012-2013:

 

Bill A524:

Clarifies that BB guns are not firearms under New Jersey law.

1/10/2012 Introduced And Referred To Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee

http://www.njleg.sta...BillNumber=A524

 

But at the same time:

 

Bill S810:

Clarifies that "airsoft" guns are firearms

1/10/2012 Introduced And Referred To Senate Law and Public Safety Committee

http://www.njleg.sta...BillNumber=S810

 

This is just so messed up.

[tommy3rd 132]

Courtesy of njJoniGuy, re-posting from another thread the legislative book of work for 2012-2013:

 

Bill A524:

Clarifies that BB guns are not firearms under New Jersey law.

1/10/2012 Introduced And Referred To Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee

http://www.njleg.sta...BillNumber=A524

 

But at the same time:

 

Bill S810:

Clarifies that "airsoft" guns are firearms

1/10/2012 Introduced And Referred To Senate Law and Public Safety Committee

http://www.njleg.sta...BillNumber=S810

 

This is just so messed up.

that's what happens when legislators pull $hit out of their asses.