State Mental Health Facilities

[bulpup 98]

This is just a little something I thought might be of interest to you all. As some are aware, my family are mental health practioners. I was talking the other day to my step father and he mentioned the history of one of the places he worked at in the very early part of his career; Pilgrim State Hospital.

 

It was a facinating history lesson on how mental health care was practiced then and now but I won't write up all the vast details but I did look up the facility and found a nice quick write up that sums it up nicely

 

http://en.wikipedia....chiatric_Center

 

The reason I thought this would be interseting is because of so much false information I hear people repeating about what can and is done about mentally ill people by the state. I feel it almost directly affects us and our gun rights.

 

In a nutshell (pardon the pun), there really are no state mental health facilites anymore. At a time when budgets needed to be cut, psychtropic drugs came along and allowed people to think that "institutionalizing" was no long needed and far to expensive for state budgets to carry. Budgets were slashed and the drugs were the answer.

 

The reasons to continue talking about this are very important to me. My upbrining exposed me to many of the craziest of things, albeit as second hand stories from my parents. What it boils down to for me is this;

• In this country there really is no way you can be "put away," for being mentally ill. Those kinds of facilities do not exist anymore.
  
• Private facilities are expensive and do to your insurance and bank account the same thing having cancer does.
  
• The few remaining facilities that have permanant residents are there by court order, not by a doctor or a family member.
  
• Those that would have been sent to large facilities are now given drugs and released instead of monitored in a closed environment.
  
• Currently, most insurance policies have very strict limits on how often you can see a psychiatrist to "talk."
  

For me, it is very relevant to the discussion of gun rights because although we have a mental health check, the best anyone can do to help the mentally ill now is give them drugs and hope that they take them. (This, I would like to mention, is one of my personal reasons for owning a firearm for self-defense.)

but also that the best mental health care available is only available to the wealthy and passable is available to the insured.

 

The poor and uninsured are left with overwhelemed facilities that are sometimes too busy to respond to immediate needs and directed to give medication so that they can move on to the next patient. In fact, even the insured are up against insurance company demands that a doctor talk to you for up to 15 minutes then write a prescription.

 

This is crazy. Consider the following;

• The worst cases are not going anywhere but home with a bottle of pills unless directed by a judge.
  
• Mentally ill usually find it extremely challengeing to hold a job, therefore are uninsured and poor/homeless.
  
• The system is so overwhelmed that the mentally unstable find it hard to actually get help when they feel they need it, let alone when someone else feels they need it.
  

So I submit to you that in our our best interests, second ammendment and living life, that you consider the following;

• "Lazy" is not a mental illness
  
• State budgeting for the mental health is not going to pay for a lazy person to get welfare. That is the welfare department. Completly different.
  
• IS this you? "Most lazy people on welfare are looking for a free ride." That might be true, but they usually complain of physical disabilities, maybe anxiety. The real hucksters do not want to be listed as mentally ill - because they would have to take medicine.
  
• Welfare money to feed poor people that have mentally ill familiy members is money well spent.
  
• State budgeting for mental health is going to directly affect who is actually going to get that red flag in the mental health background check.
  

The reason I write this is fairly simple. Everytime, and I mean everytime I mention to people that the metal health money should not be cut from a state budget the response has ALWAYS been that we should not have to pay for "lazy people,' to get welfare.

Lazy people getting a free ride on welfare is NOT a mental health care issue. It is not even close. Cutting money to mental health programs affects the ability to find and treat the next Jared Laugner.

 

Just some food for thought.

[Anselmo 87]

Lots of people have no sympathy or empathy for a disease that they cannot see as it does not manfifest itself physically.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Lots of people have no sympathy or empathy for a disease that they cannot see as it does not manfifest itself physically.

Nor do most people even give a crap when they do see an illness... most people don't care unless it directly affects them. I mean, i still dont understand how people say Medical MJ is a joke, but people will fight it to the grave. Same thing with guns, the most anti-gunners will want one when they are put in a life threatening situation. If you were against Medical MJ and your kid came down with cancer, and you saw how it helped, you would change your mind. People are just oblivious unless it smacks them right in the face.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

The reason I write this is fairly simple. Everytime, and I mean everytime I mention to people that the metal health money should not be cut from a state budget the response has ALWAYS been that we should not have to pay for "lazy people,' to get welfare.

Lazy people getting a free ride on welfare is NOT a mental health care issue. It is not even close. Cutting money to mental health programs affects the ability to find and treat the next Jared Laugner.

 

Just some food for thought.

 

The thing is, people are fine with paying for it, but like u said the system seems to be pretty fcked up, so why bother paying for a system that apparently doesnt work? I dont mind paying for a lot of social services, i just dont want to see the money go to waste, or some scumbags pocket.

[Babaganoosh 192]

So I have a question. Every time we hear a person is unfit to stand trial and they go to a mental health type of place instead of jail, where exactly d they go?

[NicePants 58]

It really is sad. There truly are people out there who need help beyond what the state believes should be given in terms of aid for those with mental health issues, but many people still see it as "laziness" and write it off as people looking for a free ride.

[KpdPipes 388]

I can think of a dozen or so over the years that have been "Regular Customers' that were legitimately Mentally ill, and needed to be institutionalized, instead they were dumped on the street..we have one now that's a danger to himself and others, it's only a matter of time until he ends up Killing himself, freezing to death under a bridge, or one my my guys (or another agency) ends up killing him. Mentally ill or not, when the guy with the Re-re strength picks up a chair leg and starts chasing people, or a knife, or a piece of broken glass, BAD things are going to happen. We've been lucky so far, MOST of the time he only assaults my guys, so he goes away for a few months, gets medicated and is fine..till the meds wear off and he goes back to being a whack-a-doodle.

[stein 1]

So I have a question. Every time we hear a person is unfit to stand trial and they go to a mental health type of place instead of jail, where exactly d they go?

THIS is the most secure facility NJ has to conduct competency evaluations as well as commit those that are found incompetent for trial or not guilty by reason of insanity. People who pose a threat to themselves or the community can be committed by the court until such time they are able to understand the court proceedings and participate in there own defense.

Those found not guilty by reason of insanity can also be committed, if they are determine to be a threat, for a term equal to the maximum sentence that would have imposed if found guilty. Periodic hearings are conducted to evaluate committed persons to determine competency or if they continue to pose a threat to themselves or the community.(Usually handled by retired judges that travel to the facilities for the hearings).

[bulpup 98]

THIS is the most secure facility NJ has to conduct competency evaluations as well as commit those that are found incompetent for trial or not guilty by reason of insanity. People who pose a threat to themselves or the community can be committed by the court until such time they are able to understand the court proceedings and participate in there own defense.

Those found not guilty by reason of insanity can also be committed, if they are determine to be a threat, for a term equal to the maximum sentence that would have imposed if found guilty. Periodic hearings are conducted to evaluate committed persons to determine competency or if they continue to pose a threat to themselves or the community.(Usually handled by retired judges that travel to the facilities for the hearings).

 

NIce! Saved me some typing. The particulars about this I did not know. However I add that all that is the legal end of the mental health picture. Usually only after some serious crime has been committed, or series of crimes. It take a long time for a person to get there and be kept there. Pilgrim State on LI was a 13,500 bed facility and was full. This one is 500.

 

The thing is, people are fine with paying for it, but like u said the system seems to be pretty fcked up, so why bother paying for a system that apparently doesnt work? I dont mind paying for a lot of social services, i just dont want to see the money go to waste, or some scumbags pocket.

 

You aren't putting money in their pocket, you are putting it in the mental health practioners or facilities pockets. I can't point to you exacly how the funds go where, but suffice it to say that this mental health system should not suffer from funding because people (politicians, voters anyone) thinks that money for mental health goes into paying people that "claim" something. The money goes to treatment.

 

And not everyone agrees the system is broken, as you say. In fact the drug companies are already claiming that they are responsible for the reduction in crime and not the police or CCW laws. There is a lot of evidence to support that too and I believe we are foolish to discount psychotropic drugs and say that CCW brought violent crime down. I believe this because the crime rates still went down in non-CCW cities.

However, there is a flaw. Those people have to put the drugs in their mouths for them to work. Some paranoids will not do that, some can't afford them or can't get to where they are given them. Also, there are those people that will never go to see a "shrink" because they fear they will be put away (which won't happen) or that they will never be able to get a job or that their guns will be taken away - Sorry I had to add that last one, but just imagine, if you were truly a paranoid schitzophenic, the last thing you would want to do is see a doctor that can take your guns. Jared Laugner might very well have avoided help because of this.

 

I can think of a dozen or so over the years that have been "Regular Customers' that were legitimately Mentally ill, and needed to be institutionalized, instead they were dumped on the street..we have one now that's a danger to himself and others, it's only a matter of time until he ends up Killing himself, freezing to death under a bridge, or one my my guys (or another agency) ends up killing him. Mentally ill or not, when the guy with the Re-re strength picks up a chair leg and starts chasing people, or a knife, or a piece of broken glass, BAD things are going to happen. We've been lucky so far, MOST of the time he only assaults my guys, so he goes away for a few months, gets medicated and is fine..till the meds wear off and he goes back to being a whack-a-doodle.

 

My mom would have been one of the doctors you would drop them with at the state hospital. She was doing this during the PCP craze too. She went out and got herself a second degree black belt in jiu-jitsu just to feel a little safe at work. No guns allowed of course and no one wanted them there because the people that came through the door were not like other people. They really would end up taking that gun from you somehow. My stepdad still has a problem with people being between him and the door.

 

But to add to your point it really should bother people that the "homeless epidemic," has a lot more to do with dumping the mentally ill in the street because no one want to pay for the facilities. Imagine, all those insane people with no way to tell the time. Why is that important? How will they know when to take their meds?