REALLY

[Vlad G 345]

I wish I knew what those videos had to do with this conversation.

[Dan 177]

Key to anything is to find the point of diminishing returns. You could go bargain basement parts for your AR, and it may be fine for many people and they would never realize the difference for their intended purposes.

 

Or you can spend the extra few hundred bucks for parts that are sold as being built to milspec materials, coatings, tolerances, and testing by a reputable maker instead of "mystery" you get what you see parts.

 

Everyone's point of diminishing returns will be different. For some it could be the few extra hundred bucks for milspec from a reputable dealer, for others it could be billet parts, fancy unobtanium coatings, bolts forged from metorite steel quenched in dragon's blood, etc....

[blksheep 466]

What is considered "Running my weapons hard" Shooting a 1000 rounds without cleaning? Running tactical AR drills? Dropping it in water, then sand and then mud, then shooting 1000 rounds? I dont get it.

[Vlad G 345]

What is considered "Running my weapons hard" Shooting a 1000 rounds without cleaning? Running tactical AR drills? Dropping it in water, then sand and then mud, then shooting 1000 rounds? I dont get it.

 

That's for you to decide. For me 1000 rounds without cleaning is not running it hard, it is down right clean, I hate spending time cleaning guns. I don't purposely drop my gear in the mud but I've shot matches where the mud was over my boot levels and you can bet I had mud and water on my guns and certainly I don't worry about leaving it in the dusty twig heavy grass on the side of a berm between stages and so on. If all you do is shoot it from a bench then this is running it hard. If you are the kind of guy that like to drive a truck over it and then shoot a 3 day class, then what I do is treating it like a safe queen. I just want to know that my gun will work with the least amount of drama and effort from me.

[blksheep 466]

That's for you to decide. For me 1000 rounds without cleaning is not running it hard, it is down right clean, I hate spending time cleaning guns. I don't purposely drop my gear in the mud but I've shot matches where the mud was over my boot levels and you can bet I had mud and water on my guns and certainly I don't worry about leaving it in the dusty twig heavy grass on the side of a berm between stages and so on. If all you do is shoot it from a bench then this is running it hard. If you are the kind of guy that like to drive a truck over it and then shoot a 3 day class, then what I do is treating it like a safe queen. I just want to know that my gun will work with the least amount of drama and effort from me.

 

All of that make sense and I agree. People buy guns for different reasons. I dont want to make people feel bad because they buy what they can afford even if maybe they can save up and buy a better one in the future. Like everyone says maybe tommorrow the system will collapse. I would rather someone have a S&W MP Sport or Del-Ton or DPMS than nothing IMHO.

[Vlad G 345]

I rather they bought a $650 AK then a $650 AR, but yes I rather they be armed then not. And I don't even like AKs.

[blksheep 466]

What about a Piston Driven AR

[Vlad G 345]

What about a Piston Driven AR

 

I couldn't care less, but find me one that is $650? I don't think there is anything wrong with the AR gas system but if you would like to buy a gun with parts which may not be made tomorrow or be replaced easily then go ahead. The reason I mentioned the $650 AK is because the odds are it was built better then the $650 AR, but maybe not.

[hiker88 22]

I'm looking to "build/assemble" another AR this year. I don't want to go the cheapest route but I want to keep it below 1k as well. Optics not included on the 1k limit... just irons.

 

Vlad and Shane, if you were to build a "battle-ready", spartan(lean-mean) AR under 1k , what route will you take?

[Vlad G 345]

I'm looking to "build/assemble" another AR this year. I don't want to go the cheapest route but I want to keep it below 1k as well.

 

Vlad and Shane, if you were to build a "battle-ready", spartan(lean-mean) AR under 1k , what route will you take?

 

For my money (and others will disagree with me here) based on current advertised prices (and shopping for sales where you can) I would do it like this:

 

Barrel BCM 16" midlength $230 (1/7 chrome lined)

BCG BCM $140

Spikes Lower $85 ( plus transfer fees and such assume $125)

Spikes Upper $100

A2 style front sight and a magpul rear sight $100

Palmetto's MOE lower built kit $140

MOE handguard $35

Nordic Tactical comp $35 (I like this because it works and it is .740 diameter so when fully pinned you can still take off the gas block if you want to change something later)

Standard charging handle $22 (might as well spend the $40 on the BCM, but whatever)

Assorted small parts (milspec barrel nut and handguard bits) $50

gas tube $13

 

That would be for me the BARE minimum and it works out to $990 (plus shipping). I would probably prefer a different upper and lower although I don't think there is anything wrong with spikes. You could probably save $25 on the BCG and get a spikes BCG, they say all the right things. I'd like a better trigger then whatever comes in the Palmetto kit but it will probably work but not feel nice. Depending on came in the Palmetto kit I might replace some of the small parts in them. You might be able to get the same or better bits from the Palmetto kit at about the same price by shopping sales, I'm using that as an approximation of what you might need/want.

[raz-0 1,259]

The same old argument. This must pop up every month on the internet. What is good enough quality for an AR-15. Call it Stoner's Law as this topic must be discussed monthly someplace.

 

Mil-spec applies to real M-4s. Not their semi-auto cousins.

 

The zombies aren't coming. It's your money and you can buy whatever you want. But, don't rationalize your purchase based on some post-apocalyptic fantasy. All you are ever going to do with an AR-15 is plink with it.

 

If I was going to war tomorrow I would rather have a better AR-15 than my Sport. But, I'm not going to war tomorrow. I'm going to work tomorrow.

 

What will a $1000 AR do that my $650 AR won't do? And why do I need it to do those things?

 

Well, I won't talk specific prices for the whole gun, but I will talk about two key items. The barrel and the BCG. Disregarding the odd sale of mystery barrels for $100 form someplace I know form experience not to trust the quality of their mystery shoes, much less gun parts, About the cheapest you can get that is a known quantity are about $150 fro chrome moly(most of those are sourced from mossberg at the moment), or about $200 for chrome lined (not sure of the source of those). They shoot ok. Put m193 in them, and you can hold about 2.5-3.5 MOA depending on luck of the draw. For $256 I can get a decent name brand cold hammer forged chrome lined HPT and MPI tested barrel that will hold 1-2 MOA depending on luck of the draw. The difference between a DPMS mystery bolt metal BCG and a BCM BCG with an MPI/HPT tested bolt is all of $10. Heck, I can get a BCG form the same source as BCM from a lesser known vendor for $5 LESS than the DPMS one. For a premium of $110 I get quality components what will likely nearly double the service life of those parts and be more accurate.

 

If it's a choice between something and nothing, going cheap has it's place. If it means having the patience to wait a month ort or having it now, I 'd suggest waiting a month or two to save up for the good stuff.

[Shane45 807]

I would honestly say that Im probably Ill equiped to answer your question. I havent assemplbed one in probably almost 8 years. I would defer to Vlad on this. With that being said my shooting partner also favors BCM and I never see his stuff go down. I dont have personal hands on but I have heard a ton of people say that their Daniel Defence rifles run real well too. The DDM4 series comes to mind as what looks to be a good reasonably priced rifle.

 

On the topic of what seperates the good from the bad, a conversation I had with Pat Rogers is what always comes to mind. His take was that any AR seems to hold up ok in a static range environment under a light firing routine, even bad ones. The compressing firing times and high round counts of his classes expose the weak from the strong. Some brands stand out as never really having issues, others not so much. I defer to this kind of intel because trainers see a great cross section of what works and what doesnt. Lately SCARS seem to be getting a lot of the nod in classes.

[hiker88 22]

I've been lurking quite a bit a the M4carbine forums and found quite a bit of following for BCM and DD stuff. There are also some who speak good things about PSA.

 

Vlad, I'm liking your list and I will start checking on actual cost for the components. Will you consider a complete mid-length upper from BCM like this one>>>http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16%20bfh.htm?

[Vlad G 345]

Vlad, I'm liking your list and I will start checking on actual cost for the components. Will you consider a complete mid-length upper from BCM like this one>>>http://www.bravocomp...id-16%20bfh.htm?

 

Sure but i think that doesn't include the BCG or a charging handle.

 

Oh and for the upper another option are the BCM blemish uppers which are pretty cheap if you don't mind a scratch or two.

[hiker88 22]

Sure but i think that doesn't include the BCG or a charging handle.

 

yup, BCG and charging handle extra.