H.R. 218 and States with smaller mag cap laws

[Nick T 4]

To the other LEO's on the forum does anyone have any info on this; like if I were to go to Maryland carrying a 15 round magazine is that potentially a chargeable offense. I can't really seem to find any info on the topic.

[exfed2002 4]

The modification to LEOSA removed ammuniton restrictions, however it did not remove magazine size restrictions.

[lunker 274]

I believe mag capacity in Maryland is 20, so it would not be a problem.

[PK90 3,570]

AFAIK, HR218/S1132 only exempt you to allow carrying a firearm. Other local and state laws must be complied with.

 

Save these to your computer for later reference (right click and save as):

HR218

S1132

FAQ

[Nick T 4]

I believe mag capacity in Maryland is 20, so it would not be a problem.

Yea for some reason I thought Maryland was 12, and to the other responses, I figured as much I'll just purchase some 10 rounders for my off duty as I traditionally go to NYC around Christmas for the tree and such.

[NJDrew1 0]

When in doubt, check with your local library or pick up a copy of the 2012 Traveler's Guide to the Firearm Laws of the 50 States. It'll give you the rundown on all of that stuff.

[Midwest 28]

This might help....Illinois takes the top prize as the most confusing, IL State law must be different than what Chicago, Aurora and Oak Park are since these are spelled out specifically. One can in theory go through four different cities and be legal in only one!

 

http://www.topgunsup...ctions-p-9.html

 

* Hawaii: No handgun magazine above 10 rounds.

* Maryland: No magazine above 20 rounds.

* Massachusetts: No magazine above 10 rounds.

* New Jersey: No magazine above 15 rounds.

* New York: No magazine above 10 rounds.

* Washington DC: No magazine above 10 rounds.

* Chicago, IL: No magazine above 12 rounds.

* Aurora, IL: No magazine above 15 rounds.

* Oak Park, IL: No magazine above 10 rounds.

* South Bend, IN: No magazine above 15 rounds.

* California: No magazine above 10 rounds.

[BlueLineFish 615]

My off duty only carries 7 rounds max but if I qualify with it at work I am carrying it wherever I go. I don't care. If I have 12 or 13 rounders in my off duty then so be it.

[bry@n 195]

So your opening admitting that if your off duty weapon had more than a 10 round mag in it and you needed to go to NYC, that is okay?

 

 

 

btw, Nick, I might have a 10 round mag I can part with if you need.

[BlueLineFish 615]

I have jurasdiction in NYC so its not an issue.

[Soju 153]

What about somewhere that you do not have jurisdiction in?

[Tactical Turtle 11]

My off duty only carries 7 rounds max but if I qualify with it at work I am carrying it wherever I go. I don't care. If I have 12 or 13 rounders in my off duty then so be it.

 

I.carry 14 rounds everywhere I go, nyc, pa, Massachusetts, I was under and still under the impression that leos are exempt from firearms laws if they meet there departments qualifications with said firearms.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

You know, in reality (The way it should be), this is not even a discussion us non-LEO's should be having, let alone our members of LE..

[Scott204 1]

You know, in reality (The way it should be), this is not even a discussion us non-LEO's should be having, let alone our members of LE..

 

 

Why?? Because you expect all LE to know he hundreds of laws in NJ then know the laws across the entire country???

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Why?? Because you expect all LE to know he hundreds of laws in NJ then know the laws across the entire country???

 

NO, because there should not be a limit on correct capacity Mags is how I view it..

[Scott204 1]

Sorry misread your intentions. I agree with you on mag restrictions. They are simply stupid in there intended purpose. If someone wants to do a mass shooting, they will bring enough to reload and continue to shoot, whether the mag can hold 5 or 50 rounds.

[exfed2002 4]

I.carry 14 rounds everywhere I go, nyc, pa, Massachusetts, I was under and still under the impression that leos are exempt from firearms laws if they meet there departments qualifications with said firearms.

 

You need to read the state law. NY only exempts you if you are in the state on offcial business. If you are retired or off duty you have to comply with the ten round limit. Other states may vary, but require compliance since LEOSA doesn't (at least, yet) cover magazines. The house version of S.1132 covered school zones, but that never made it into the final bill for passage.

[Tactical Turtle 11]

Yea I will now, I guess I should carry 10 round mags and ball ammo where I can't carry HP. blah. I goto pa a lot I guess I better see there laws

[BlueLineFish 615]

I also always carry HP ammo whereever i am. Dept issued. I will not carry fmj ammo for off duty carry

[redwings9 5]

Exfed is spot on, regarding the mag issue it never made it into the revised LEOSA that suprisingly Obama signed in to law back in Oct 2010. The restrictions regarding JHP are null and void as they are not prohibited under the NFA, unfortunately there is still much confusion among many active, retired etc. Here it is almost 2 years and the NJ attorney general has still not updated both the NJSP LEO info (NJSP firearms branch are still waiting) and no updated opinions have been issued. LEOSA should put to rest both the age restrictions and ammo restrictions.

[KpdPipes 388]

So your opening admitting that if your off duty weapon had more than a 10 round mag in it and you needed to go to NYC, that is okay?

 

 

 

btw, Nick, I might have a 10 round mag I can part with if you need.

 

Actually he would be OK in NYC no matter what as LEO's are Exempt by statute from the Magazine Capacity ban, where here in NJ we have to have a Signed Letter by our CLEO's affirming that the Magazines (or AW's) are for the performance of our Duties. Off-Duty guns are covered because we have to qual and we are carrying "Officially" I could carry my G-23 in NY now, because i'm still employed as a Police Officer...Once I retired, and am no longer actively employed, then I am subject to the Mag ban there......So, I carry a 1911, and this way dont have to worry about it

[Tactical Turtle 11]

 

 

Actually he would be OK in NYC no matter what as LEO's are Exempt by statute from the Magazine Capacity ban, where here in NJ we have to have a Signed Letter by our CLEO's affirming that the Magazines (or AW's) are for the performance of our Duties. Off-Duty guns are covered because we have to qual and we are carrying "Officially" I could carry my G-23 in NY now, because i'm still employed as a Police Officer...Once I retired, and am no longer actively employed, then I am subject to the Mag ban there......So, I carry a 1911, and this way dont have to worry about it

 

Wait so if u qualified with it, u can carry it as qualified with high cap mags anywhere ?

[exfed2002 4]

Actually he would be OK in NYC no matter what as LEO's are Exempt by statute from the Magazine Capacity ban

 

My impression is that he is defined as a member of an exempt class in NYS since he states he has jurisdiction in NYC. The exemption only applies to active NYS LEO personnel, and active LEO personnel from other states when on official business in NYS.

 

There have been some attempts made to have retirees turn in their "large capacity" mags that they took into retirement.

 

Since the largest mags I have are twelve rounders, I just got a bunch of 10 round mags so I don't have to worry about switching them when using LEOSA in my last OTJ carry weapon. All of my others are either revolvers or semi auttos where the native magazines are ten or under.

 

Even under the old AWB, retirees who took issued large capacity mags into retirement were exempt. Then the states passed copycat laws to show they were tough on crime without much thought as to how they would work.

 

But then most politicians wouldn't know the street if they fell face down in it.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Exfed is spot on, regarding the mag issue it never made it into the revised LEOSA that suprisingly Obama signed in to law back in Oct 2010. The restrictions regarding JHP are null and void as they are not prohibited under the NFA, unfortunately there is still much confusion among many active, retired etc. Here it is almost 2 years and the NJ attorney general has still not updated both the NJSP LEO info (NJSP firearms branch are still waiting) and no updated opinions have been issued. LEOSA should put to rest both the age restrictions and ammo restrictions.

 

Last I looked the NJ AG recognizes LEOSA but says if you are a NJ resident retired LEO you still need to get a RPO permit from the state. In essence, the AG says Federal law applies to everyone except NJ residents. I don't expect a rewrite of the law regarding hollow points and retirees and I don't expect a retiree to be charged just for hollow points either.

 

As far as the original question I really haven't paid attention to it as the largest capacity handgun I usually carry only has a 10 rd magazine.

[redwings9 5]

Griz, there is much confusion on the need to have the required NJ ID card if your agency issues a retired credential. Based on the LEOSA revision there is really no need to give NJ the yearly fee for the card.

 

The age restriction for NJ is based on NJ law something the state cannot mandate as federal law trumps state law and if something is not a violation of the NFA then it is null and void. Provided the retiree successfully (regardless of age) qualifies under the required standards they will be good under the statute. There is no way for the NJ Attorney Gen. to get around this and the ammo issue. Believe me if the issue was more restrictive they would have issued guidelines within weeks now it is going on two years and nothing........

 

The ammo is now a moot point, the mags are still a problem for some and the one thing that needed to get resolved and did not was the school zone restriction which could become a sticky issue under certain situations.

 

As of the 2010 revisions an LEO ID (retired or active) and up to date qualification card and you are good in all 50 states. I am lucky as my agency issues retired ID's many departments are still fighting this issue.

 

A good source of info is to google LEOSA/FOP they have a good question and answer page on many questions that may assist both active and retirees.

 

One last thing I would strongly encourage everyone covered by LEOSA is to have LEOSA insurance or what some call self defense insurance.

 

Be safe and all take care.

[KpdPipes 388]

Wait so if u qualified with it, u can carry it as qualified with high cap mags anywhere ?

 

As long as you are authorized by your department to carry it, and you are a sworn officer, you are not bound by the magazine capacity. NY's AWB which also covers mag capacity exempts LEO's as a blanket group, not only NYS LEO's...at least that's how it was explained to ME. Like I said, I've only carried a 1911 since the mid 1990's off-duty, and a Detective Special before that, so capacity wasn't a concern. of course the a**-chewing I received from some crusty old NYPD Desk Sgt when I tried to check my weapon in, Like we were initially TOLD to do as a rookie was pretty Epic.

[KpdPipes 388]

My impression is that he is defined as a member of an exempt class in NYS since he states he has jurisdiction in NYC. The exemption only applies to active NYS LEO personnel, and active LEO personnel from other states when on official business in NYS.

 

There have been some attempts made to have retirees turn in their "large capacity" mags that they took into retirement.

 

Since the largest mags I have are twelve rounders, I just got a bunch of 10 round mags so I don't have to worry about switching them when using LEOSA in my last OTJ carry weapon. All of my others are either revolvers or semi auttos where the native magazines are ten or under.

 

Even under the old AWB, retirees who took issued large capacity mags into retirement were exempt. Then the states passed copycat laws to show they were tough on crime without much thought as to how they would work.

 

But then most politicians wouldn't know the street if they fell face down in it.

 

That;s pretty much what I was saying..as long as you are ACTIVE, you're good to go..INACTIVE (Retired) is when you are bound by the Capacity Laws. Not that I plan to ever carry the Tupperware, I have a couple of G-23 10 rounders lying around the house here somewhere

[KpdPipes 388]

Last I looked the NJ AG recognizes LEOSA but says if you are a NJ resident retired LEO you still need to get a RPO permit from the state. In essence, the AG says Federal law applies to everyone except NJ residents. I don't expect a rewrite of the law regarding hollow points and retirees and I don't expect a retiree to be charged just for hollow points either.

 

As far as the original question I really haven't paid attention to it as the largest capacity handgun I usually carry only has a 10 rd magazine.

 

Depends entirely on the County Prosecutor. I dont recall if its the current sitting Prosecutor in union County, but there has been at least one that has barred his Investigators from carrying under LEOSA their Duty Weapon, or ANY Firearm with which they have qualified with their department...essentially requiring them to have a second Off-duty, that they are technically Unqualified with (Even if they paid for a Qual on their own dime) to travel outside the state with. He ALSO attempted to push the same direction on the Chiefs, but was told to go pound sand....CP has a lot of oversight on the Local municipal departments but not THAT much, although I dont doubt he would try to do some kind of County-Level administrative nonsense just to see if it'd work. I have NO DOUBT that that guy wouldnt choose to charge a retired cop, or Out-of-State cop with the Hollowpoints if he were involved in a defensive shooting. it's a PITA, but it's just easier to carry EFMJ, Critical Defense, or Pow-R-Ball

[exfed2002 4]

That;s pretty much what I was saying..as long as you are ACTIVE, you're good to go..

 

But the exemption only applies to :

(b) Police officers as defined in subdivision thirty-four of section

1.20 of the criminal procedure law.

© Peace officers as defined by section 2.10 of the criminal

procedure law.

(d) Persons in the military or other service of the United States, in

pursuit of official duty or when duly authorized by federal law,

regulation or order to possess the same......

11. Possession of a firearm or large capacity ammunition feeding

device by a police officer or sworn peace officer of another state while

conducting official business within the state of New York.

[exfed2002 4]

Depends entirely on the County Prosecutor.

 

And the local department and politicians. I have friends in departments that have embraced LEOSA, and others in departments that have changed their rules to make it virutally impossible for their officers to carry out-of-state based on LEOSA.