Spoke with records dept at local PD

[Aroon02 0]

Called the ocean twp police department and asked if I could turn in my FID app before my fingerprint appt simply to have the paperwork there given I work far from home. I asked the clerk from the records department if I could do this. She explained that id have to wait until the prints came back before the did their end of the paper work. Which is fine. So then I asked (and I know what it's supposed to be) what the turn around on the FID and permits we're and she says "not sure". And I asked if they were backed up and she said in a not so sure manner. " yeaaaa, probably". Now. My finger print appt is the 26th this month. And I plan to have already dropped my mental health and application off to the pd by the time I get my prints. Sooooo. My thing is. After the 30 days given my 2 references handle their end quickly and I haven't gotten a response what's my next steps. Just trying the get the info before I get aggravated and am waiting for months on end. Thanks in advance

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

The thirty days is meaningless. You need to find out from others in your area what the average time is that they waited.

[Adam 6]

The 30days isn't meaningless.

 

It's the law.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

If you have read any of my posts you'd know that I am the biggest proponent of holding the PD's feet to the fire to get them to comply with the law. In this case however, there is case law and the precedent set said essentially that since elements of the background investigation were beyond the PD's ability to control, the 30 day clock does not start ticking until all elements required for the background investigation are in hand. Without strict accountability of when that actually occurs in any specific case, it renders the 30 day limit moot.

 

JMHO (and the court's)

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[bhunted 887]

+1.... It's the law and a lawyer can press the issue. Make sure in a subtle way, they know you know that..

 

.

The 30days isn't meaningless.

 

It's the law.

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I agree with Bob and I've been a shooter for 44+ years.

 

The System is only the System. People are Human, even the ones who work in a Records Dept. Being polite but persistant is oft times a better outcome made. I once knew a guy who sent someone in the Records Dept. a simple thank-you card for doing their job. He always got his stuff back quicker......I wonder why that was?

 

The workers in the System have to do what they're told, so don't go out of your way to be hostile towards them. Instead, ask to see their bosses for a clarification, even if that means the CLEO himself. Not making any excuses, but I've seen first hand how most small-town ID Bureau's operate. The same Detective that handles Firearms gets called to investigate a deadly MVA or house fire or drug arrest or, or, or. You see where I'm going. Is it right that you (and I ) have to wait beyond the 30 days? NO it's not, but doing it Bob's way oft times results in the best outcome.....

 

I hope your Dept. is responsive and courteous.

 

Dave

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

I appreciate the support Dave, but I think you're confusing this with my post (#15) in this thread: http://njgunforums.c...__fromsearch__1

 

The 30 days period in the statute is meaningless because someone has already attempted legal remedy and the courts have ruled as I stated above.

 

True, you catch more flys with honey than vinegar, but I just didn't want the OP to get all self-righteous with his PD when he has no legal ground on which to stand.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Soju 153]

The 30days isn't meaningless.

 

It's the law.

 

So what does that make 'the law' when it isn't followed?

 

Meaningless. Pizza Bob is correct.

[Aroon02 0]

All great responses and advice and I really appreciate your insight especially to a newbie to the gun world. On that not I woul never over step my boundaries or become hostile toward ANYONE doing their job. And it sucks that it takes longer than it "should" but it makes sense if it takes longer. People don't realize the day to day of the investigator. As in any job I guess it takes as long as it takes. I just hope that everything goes well. I have no criminal or mental records so the wait will be my references and background checks.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I appreciate the support Dave, but I think you're confusing this with my post (#15) in this thread: http://njgunforums.c...__fromsearch__1

 

The 30 days period in the statute is meaningless because someone has already attempted legal remedy and the courts have ruled as I stated above.

 

True, you catch more flys with honey than vinegar, but I just didn't want the OP to get all self-righteous with his PD when he has no legal ground on which to stand.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

I'm not confused with the other post in the othe thread. The two are somewhat related though, so you have a valid point, as always.

 

In reading the man's response to our posts, he seems to me to "get it" and won't be hostile, which is a good thing.

 

And that 30-day rule ought to be amended somehow so it reads into reality, instead of left to rot on a dead vine.......it's not as if we can really prove "when the clock starts", and with the precedent you already quoted, well, it looks like they can get away with bloddy-blue murder if they abuse the system themselves. Just another case of over-regulation and duplication to raise money....

 

Have a good night and hope to shoot with you soon after you heal-up some more!

 

Dave

[djg0770 481]

Just a point, as many of the PD's are not aware of the 30 day law, they are equally unaware of the case precedent.

 

Use this to your advantage, contact your mayor, town council and chief of police directly if your PD generally exceeds the 30 day window. If you want an example of a letter, I have one that I wrote and one that another guy wrote. Both of us have used this approach successfully to light fires under kiesters...

[Avi 12]

I appreciate the support Dave, but I think you're confusing this with my post (#15) in this thread: http://njgunforums.c...__fromsearch__1

 

The 30 days period in the statute is meaningless because someone has already attempted legal remedy and the courts have ruled as I stated above.

 

True, you catch more flys with honey than vinegar, but I just didn't want the OP to get all self-righteous with his PD when he has no legal ground on which to stand.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Bob can you state the specific case your referring to i have never heard of a case involving the 30 day law and a ruling on it

[tommy3rd 132]

Just a point, as many of the PD's are not aware of the 30 day law, they are equally unaware of the case precedent.

until the town's lawyer looks into the lexis nexis database for case precedence when you file a motion, then you're done. you just spent hundreds on a lawyer to fight a losing battle.That's money that could be used for your first purchase when you finally get the permit.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Bob can you state the specific case your referring to i have never heard of a case involving the 30 day law and a ruling on it

 

Adler v. Livak 1998

 

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/nj-superior-court-appellate-division/1456634.html

[Avi 12]

Adler v. Livak 1998

 

http://caselaw.findl...on/1456634.html

Thank you

[Candide 0]

That case law pertains to the issuence of an initial FID card. You would think that future p2p's should take less than 30 days.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

That case law pertains to the issuence of an initial FID card. You would think that future p2p's should take less than 30 days.

 

Why? It's the same process.

[djg0770 481]

until the town's lawyer looks into the lexis nexis database for case precedence when you file a motion, then you're done. you just spent hundreds on a lawyer to fight a losing battle.That's money that could be used for your first purchase when you finally get the permit.

 

1) The town does not turn to the lawyer at every question.

2) I never said anything about "filing a motion".

3) It's your choice, I used the approach I described in my correspondence with my mayor and I received results.

4) If you choose to just sit on your buttocks and wait for your rights, that's your choice. I found that an email to my mayor achieved splendid results.

[Njgunowner 2]

A guy I work and shoot with had to go through the Ocean township process, it's not pretty. Took him around 4 months. GL