Scanners

[Shawnmoore81 623]

How is a plate scanners constitutional? I just read a giant circle jerk article in the paper about the town next to me doubling the amount of people they are pulling over. They went to 12 hour shifts which is fine. But then the started talking about the scanner they bought. Sitting there while a machine scans every person who goes by is not policing. It's harassing and tax collecting. IMO they can take them and red light cameras a shove em up their a**. On top of it my wife just got her liscence renewed and they made her take her glasses off so they can save her face for facial recognition. When is enough enough?

[john q publik 10]

How is a plate scanners constitutional? I just read a giant circle jerk article in the paper about the town next to me doubling the amount of people they are pulling over. They went to 12 hour shifts which is fine. But then the started talking about the scanner they bought. Sitting there while a machine scans every person who goes by is not policing. It's harassing and tax collecting. IMO they can take them and red light cameras a shove em up their a**. On top of it my wife just got her liscence renewed and they made her take her glasses off so they can save her face for facial recognition. When is enough enough?

 

It was enough roughly 25 years ago.....it's just a matter of time now until the firestorm starts.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Here is the article

 

WOODSTOWN — A new command structure at the police department and improved equipment being used by the Woodstown police officers have increased motor vehicle stops and warrant arrests, officials said recently.

 

Mayor Don Dietrich said when comparing January to June 2011 and January to June 2012, motor vehicle stops were up almost 40 percent and warrant arrests have more than doubled.

 

“I credit that to the efficiency and effectiveness of our police department, including the changes we brought with the new contract with the 12-hour shifts,” Dietrich said. “It’s a big improvement.”

 

In the first half of 2012, Woodstown police conducted 673 motor vehicle stops, an increase of 38 percent over 2011. In addition, there were five arrests for driving while intoxicated, which is four more than this time last year. There were also 81 warrant arrests conducted, which is a 145 percent increase over 2011.

 

The mayor explained that the new shifts and command structure are in place so that there are fewer hours devoted to shift change-over, and hence more opportunity to devote their time to police activity such as warrant arrests and motor vehicle stops.

 

He added that the investment in automatic license plate readers has also been helpful. The device watches cars driving down the street in both directions as well as cars that are parked and reads the vehicles’ license plates, automatically determining if the cars are associated with violations of the law.

 

Director of Public Safety Cris Simmermon explained that with the assistance of license plate readers, the police can now easily detect stolen vehicles and suspended drivers. This benefits the safety of the officers greatly, he said, because they can now know who they are approaching even before they leave their vehicle.

 

Along with the rise in motor vehicle stops and warrant arrests, Dietrich noticed an 82 percent increase in “walk and talk” activity over the previous year. This activity, which took place 656 times during the first six months of this year, involves communication between officers and residents.

 

“This ‘walk and talk’ activity, along with our highly successful Community Watch program, help ensure that our residents and police can work as a team to identify and prevent crime,” he said. “It is noteworthy that the number of burglaries in Woodstown declined by half from the first six months of 2011 to 2012.”

 

Dietrich stated there were seven burglaries during that time period, as opposed to 14 incidents a year ago. Police also handled 12 instances of harassment this year, which is down from 20 last year.

 

“We don’t have a lot of burglaries,” Simmermon said, pointing out that crime is low because the borough is one square mile and officers are able to cover the area easily.

 

The Community Watch, Dietrich said, started a few years ago by a group of volunteers facilitated by Councilman Ed Segrest. It now consists of over 200 residents, he said.

 

“Those residents represent invaluable ‘eyes and ears’ for our police force, and add substantially to the public safety of our borough,” said Dietrich. “I hope we see even more residents sign up and get involved as the year progresses.”

[BlueLineFish 615]

License plates are in plain view and nj allows random plate runs to search for stolen vehicles. Also get hits on other stuff people may be wanted for. Allows officer to maintain patrol while computer does the work. Stop being so paranoid. If you are that against it dont drive.

[checko 180]

Side question BLF....do those stupid a** license plate covers really block radar or this scanner?

[MikeK77 8]

License plates are in plain view and nj allows random plate runs to search for stolen vehicles. Also get hits on other stuff people may be wanted for. Allows officer to maintain patrol while computer does the work. Stop being so paranoid. If you are that against it dont drive.

 

Then some use it for personal use

 

http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012307240015

[raz-0 1,259]

License plates are in plain view and nj allows random plate runs to search for stolen vehicles. Also get hits on other stuff people may be wanted for. Allows officer to maintain patrol while computer does the work. Stop being so paranoid. If you are that against it dont drive.

 

I'm pretty conservative about surveillance, and in general I agree with you. The problem I have with the automatic plate readers is when it moves from lookups to logging time and location of people who don't match for warrants, stolen vehicles, amber alerts, etc. That then is warrantless surveillance.

[Arbelest 29]

do those stupid a** license plate covers really block radar or this scanner?

 

I haven't heard of something that will block the camera from capturing the image completely.

 

 

On another note these cameras keep the officers more focused on driving their vehicle instead of typing in the plate while driving. Some departments have issued new policies due to accidents from officers typing in the MDT's that the vehicle must be stopped if you want to type on the MDT(fancy talk for laptop).

[Anselmo 87]

Another reason to support the ACLU.

 

ANNAPOLIS, Md. (AP) — The American Civil Liberties Union is asking police agencies nationwide for details on how they store data captured by automatic license plate readers, which authorities say help fight crime and terrorism and are not used to stockpile information on all drivers.

A top concern, the ACLU says, is how long the location and movements of people are kept on file after cameras mounted on patrol cars or along roads on telephone poles and bridges photograph license plates. ACLU affiliates in 38 states and the District of Columbia have joined in asking for the information.

"The American people have a right to know whether our police departments are using these tools in a limited and responsible manner, or whether they are keeping records of our movements for months or years for no good reason," said Catherine Crump, staff attorney with the ACLU's Speech, Privacy and Technology Project.

[Arbelest 29]

Even if the data was stored for months or years it doesn't prove anything other then your license plate was at that location at that time, the picture doesn't show who was driving or who was in the car.

[greatgunstatenj 32]

I'm pretty conservative about surveillance, and in general I agree with you. The problem I have with the automatic plate readers is when it moves from lookups to logging time and location of people who don't match for warrants, stolen vehicles, amber alerts, etc. That then is warrantless surveillance.

What makes you think it isn't already logging time/location? Eventually all of this data will end up here http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/

 

On another note these cameras keep the officers more focused on driving their vehicle instead of typing in the plate while driving. Some departments have issued new policies due to accidents from officers typing in the MDT's that the vehicle must be stopped if you want to type on the MDT(fancy talk for laptop).

 

That's assuming they aren't yapping on their cell phones. Which IMHO should be against the law. I know several officers who use their personal or drop phones for work related calls instead of the radio to avoid being recorded. If you're doing something as a public servant that you wouldn't want the public to hear, after the fact, you shouldn't be doing it at all.

[Arbelest 29]

Same thing with being allowed to use a laptop while driving police are allowed to use a cell phone for police matters while driving, it is frowned upon for the distracted driving part if they get in an accident. Sometimes you need to use a cell phone instead of a radio due lengthy transmissions from dispatch to the officer or the officer to dispatch. Sometimes especially in Gloucester County the system goes down and the radios get interference from digital tv stations. About being recorded, all officers know that everything is recored and are wise enough to keep it clean.

[Adam 6]

Not everything is recorded...

 

There's always "that line" they can call into, that isn't recorded.

[Arbelest 29]

I ment as far as radio transmissions, except for talk around channels, but yes the non-adverstised non-emergency lines are not recorded.

[Kaiser7 33]

Then some use it for personal use

 

http://www.courierpo...D=2012307240015

 

I think I've seen that cop before in my mall....

 

Regardless, I think this technology is going above and beyond what the constitution calls for. I never thought I'd see the day where I supported the ACLU.

[bulpup 98]

This is police work isn't it? find the stolen cars and the guys driving with a suspended license? Sure logging a person's whereabout for a few years is questioanable - but only if it actually happens.

 

Even a P2P is destroyed when the tranaction is done. I think they have to answer a few questions about the record keeping to be sure, but hell, one cop raking through traffic in town finding the guys that got a DWI but are driving anyway? - Yea I'll pay taxes for that.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Even if the data was stored for months or years it doesn't prove anything other then your license plate was at that location at that time, the picture doesn't show who was driving or who was in the car.

 

Exactly. No cop is using it for tracking. Its an instant thing. Stolen cars, amber alerts, BOLO's, heavy fines on certain vehicles that will be impounded. Not for people tracking

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I have no problems with police doing police work. If someone is visibly breaking the law yeah investigate. But just sitting there as a machine scans every vehicle in sight is not police work. You say the cop will be able to pay attention to the road. I see it as the cop can sit there and just wait for the computer to do his job then go pull the person over for whatever reason. As a cop I would be against it too. A plate scanner and facial recognition software posted at intersections and who needs cops. You will just get mailed the ticket. This is just a step in the wrong direction. We've had quite a few problems in the area of crimes happening and cops sleeping through it. This won't make that harder. But motorist who will pay the fine get strung up.

 

2000

A gibbstown cop "responding to a call" is driving 100+mph in a residential 35 zone. Passes someone and hits my friend head on. Kills him and puts the girl in his car in a halo. He was still in highschool. Cops then blame the dead kid even though multple witness say a different story. We use to call the cop cars wind machines because at night you would hear the air movement of the car for blocks before you see it. They would drive 100+mph up and down broad st everyday. They did it with no top lights on and even when going to wawa. Well what happened to this officer when he came back to work? Promoted to detective.

 

2001

I get pulled over as soon as I get in my car. The cop writes me 3 tickets. 2 driving while suspended (said he saw me earlier driving also) and falsifying drivers liscence application. He apparently was running random teens names in town and saw 2 liscences under my name. That's where the 2 shawn moore problem was discovered. I got to court and fight it. It gets postponed for further investigation. As he is walking out of court he says "I'm gonna get you for this" in my ear. That same cop a couple years later set my friend and I up for dui's that should have been illegal. Here is my DUI. I'm at home and get a phone call my buddy's truck was stuck in a mud hole. I had a lifted bronco so I went and yanked him out then pulled the truck out to a buddy's house. On my may back into town my trans line blows so I pull over. Luckily I know a lot of guys who can tow. My buddy had a cooler of beer in his truck that was now in my trick since I was driving him home. We are sitting there leaning on the guard rail drinking beers waiting for my buddy to get there. My truck wasn't going to be driven so no harm. A little later a cop pulls up and asks what happened. We told him and said a tow was on the way. He says "does the truck move?" I said "yeah but it leaks fluid while it's moving." he then tells me while I had a beer in my hand "get in it and get it home". I was on the should of a farm road so it was blocking anything. I make it 2 blocks and bam that cop who said he was gonna get me pulls me over and writes me for DUI. My buddy who was with me who was gonna go to court and say what happened gets one shortly after when he wasn't even driving his car. His car was parked behind our buddy's apartment and this guy nick ran the car to the wawa. Same Cop comes and see the car moved and give my buddy a DUI.

 

2007

Gibbstown cop get drunk and crashes into a house. Punishment? Liscense suspended 30 days. Suspended with pay for work. When he comes back he is promoted to detective.

 

http://policecrimes.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=210

 

September 2010

The gibbstowm dunkin donuts is robbed at gun point and Shots are fired. The paulsboro police showed up as back up. The gibbstown chief got there a couple hours later and still no gibbstown police. Where were they? Sleeping. One guy got a forced retirement and one got in a lot of trouble.

 

So they learned their lesson right???? Wrong

 

less then a year ago the gibbstown shopping center has the bar, sporting goods store and cigar shop get broken into. All this while a cop was sleeping in his car in the parking lot.

 

This past winter.

My friends mom who never believed us the cops would flat out lie to write you tickets was driving down broad street. A cop also driving down broad st wipes into a liquor store parking lot and does a u turn and run right into her car pulling back out. The cop then writes her a careless ticket and said she must have slid on ice because he stopped and she waved him out. Problem was it was 70 degrees out. She now believes us.

 

I have a real problem with this stuff going on while guys just driving down the road or even parked are getting harassed. Traffic tickets generate revenue so that's where I see the difference. Now a days a few friends I grew up with are now cops and I know they are good guys. But those few stories are just a drop in the bucket of crooked cop stories I can tell you in gibbstown.

[bulpup 98]

that's quite an axe you've got on the grinder.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I just know what cops are capable of when they either aren't honest or they aren't kept in line. I'm good friends with a couple and through them I became friends with a few more and they are good guys. But some aren't. If they are will to break laws like I mentioned what's to stop them from misusing that technology.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Also I guarentee this plate reader leads to me being arrested for the other shawn moore a few times.

[voyager9 3,434]

License plates are in plain view and nj allows random plate runs to search for stolen vehicles. Also get hits on other stuff people may be wanted for. Allows officer to maintain patrol while computer does the work. Stop being so paranoid. If you are that against it dont drive.

 

The demo I saw on TV of the system used in Evesham requires the driver to check the computer's interpretation of the image with the image to make sure it got the plate right. Maybe they were just operating it that way for the News demo but if not it could increase operator distraction as they have to hit a key on the MDT for every plate.

[BlueLineFish 615]

From what I have seen you just drive slow and when you get a hit there is a noise. Then the officer needs to find the plate and confirm what the hit is for.

[Candide 0]

Throw some mud on your plate. Not enough to be obvious but just enough to make an E look like an 8 or a B.

[voyager9 3,434]

From what I have seen you just drive slow and when you get a hit there is a noise. Then the officer needs to find the plate and confirm what the hit is for.

 

I stand corrected. From

Automatic license plate reader helps Jersey police fight crime

 

To ease concerns over privacy, Lieutenant Miller says that the technology has established protocols to guarantee privacy.

The device must be used on a public road while the car is in plain sight, and when the system finds a match an officer must manually verify the search on a laptop or call it in to a dispatcher.

Though I don't think they need to 'Drive Slow'

But, the new system “can run thousands of license plates in a short amount of time, even if you’re driving 60 mph and the other car is going 60 mph,” Miller said.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Most of the time I have seen them in towns or parking lots so they were driving slow. Didn't know about them reading at faster speeds. I am sure some fear mongerers here will still have a problem.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Oh yeah I have a real problem with it. Now everytime the other shawn moore has a warrant I won't even be able to drive. I'll be getting pulled over in every town I go through even if I'm not breaking any laws. How about if they just wanna drive by a gun shop, gun club or 2a society meeting and they have a list of names of people to start pulling over and searching for guns.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Oh yeah I have a real problem with it. Now everytime the other shawn moore has a warrant I won't even be able to drive. I'll be getting pulled over in every town I go through even if I'm not breaking any laws. How about if they just wanna drive by a gun shop, gun club or 2a society meeting and they have a list of names of people to start pulling over and searching for guns.

 

Yes that's next one their agenda. Watch your back because they are scanning for you. Paranoid much

[bulpup 98]

How about if they just wanna drive by a gun shop, gun club or 2a society meeting and they have a list of names of people to start pulling over and searching for guns.

 

 

 

Right, because it would be far more effective to scan your plate at a gun store parking lot than not give you a P2P or FID.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Yup..they have no idea about firearms ownership. The permits and coe's get burned after reading. clueless and paranoid. Have you tinfoiled your walls yet to keep the scanners out