Any F 15 fans out there.

[mipafox 438]

 

 

There are some SU-27/35 pilots that beg to differ. The F15 is a fanstic fighter but the modern Russian fighters can't be dismissed so quickly. The Su-35BM, for example, looks like it would give the F15 a run.. all else being equal (pilot, training, ,C2, ROE..etc).

 

Until I see otherwise, I dismiss them so quickly. Russians are long on claims. And all else is NOT equal, we are talking about US Air Force pilots trained for F15s.

 

Japan, S. Korea, Singapore also have them.

 

None of them have "them." They have varying levels of our export models. And they were not shipped complete with the top pilots in the US Air Force to fly them.

 

 

 

 

[voyager9 3,434]

 

Until I see otherwise, I dismiss them so quickly. Russians are long on claims. And all else is NOT equal, we are talking about US Air Force pilots trained for F15s.

 

We were also talking about NYPD in another thread. Don't assume we are the best. The Russian aviators are good. Either way the concern isn't the Russians but a little further east.

 

If your going to compare planes the the Su35 and Mig35 are contenders to the F15. All three have been heavily updated since the original models.

[mipafox 438]

 

 

We were also talking about NYPD in another thread.

 

I never made the mistake of giving an ounce of respect to the NYPD, so that discussion doesn't mean much in this context.

 

Don't assume we are the best.

 

"We" aren't. F15s flown by the US Air Force are not only the best, they completely dominate. It's a specific niche.

 

The Russian aviators are good.

 

It's the planes, and the aviators, and the US Air Force. All three. Not just the planes, and not just our pilots.

 

 

[TK421 2]

I have to admit, being a child of the '70s the F14 was always my favorite. It was indeed a deadly work of art.

 

 

Back in 2006 when the last of F14s were retired, I remember a statement that it was the first time in American military aviation history that a weapons platform had been retired without an equal or superior system to replace it. The F14 and its Phoenix long range missile system was the United States only extended long range air-to-air missile system ever deployed. The F14 could track, target and engage up to six separate targets over the horizon at the same time and turn around before an enemy plane could even see them on their radar. The Phoenix missile could also be launched in a type of autonomous mode in which the missile would climb to an extreme altitude and use its own radar to acquire and lock onto targets. It must have been something to have flown one of those puppies.

[TK421 2]

Dup

[mipafox 438]

I have to admit, being a child of the '70s the F14 was always my favorite. It was indeed a deadly work of art.

 

 

Back in 2006 when the last of F14s were retired, I remember a statement that it was the first time in American military aviation history that a weapons platform had been retired without an equal or superior system to replace it. The F14 and its Phoenix long range missile system was the United States only extended long range air-to-air missile system ever deployed. The F14 could track, target and engage up to six separate targets over the horizon at the same time and turn around before an enemy plane could even see them on their radar. The Phoenix missile could also be launched in a type of autonomous mode in which the missile would climb to an extreme altitude and use its own radar to acquire and lock onto targets. It must have been something to have flown one of those puppies.

 

I liked it quite a bit myself, long before the Top Gun movie. A movie I didn't even see until the mid-90s and wasn't impressed with by then. Back in the early 80s the capabilities of the system were just astonishing. Broke my heart when they buried it. They burried the F-111 only a few years earlier, a plane that had been slated to carry the Phoenix as well but didn't in practice.

[voyager9 3,434]

With respect to the F14 you've got to remember that times had changed. The F14 was designed to carry the Phoenix and protect the fleet from waves of Russian bombers beyond their engagement range. Once the cold war ended the Navy had to ask themselves whether that role was worth the high cost (both in $$ and footprint). They did try to keep the F14 and adapt it to new roles (aka Bombcat) but the Super Hornet could do almost everything nearly as well for a lot less cost.

As for the Navalized F-111.. It's not like they buried it.. GD couldn't adapt a ground-based strike aircraft to meet the requirements of a carrier-based interceptor. A lot of that work found its way into the F14, however.

[mipafox 438]

With respect to the F14 you've got to remember that times had changed. The F14 was designed to carry the Phoenix and protect the fleet from waves of Russian bombers beyond their engagement range. Once the cold war ended the Navy had to ask themselves whether that role was worth the high cost (both in $$ and footprint). They did try to keep the F14 and adapt it to new roles (aka Bombcat) but the Super Hornet could do almost everything nearly as well for a lot less cost.

As for the Navalized F-111.. It's not like they buried it.. GD couldn't adapt a ground-based strike aircraft to meet the requirements of a carrier-based interceptor. A lot of that work found its way into the F14, however.

 

They couldn't put the F-111 on an aircraft carrier. It was an obvious problem.

 

But, I said they buried the F-14 a few years ago. They did. They buried the F-111 a few years earlier. They did that as well. F-111s did actually fly for decades, you know. Heck, they bombed Libya back before it was cool

[Holeshot 3]

They couldn't put the F-111 on an aircraft carrier. It was an obvious problem.

 

But, I said they buried the F-14 a few years ago. They did. They buried the F-111 a few years earlier. They did that as well. F-111s did actually fly for decades, you know. Heck, they bombed Libya back before it was cool

 

 

Yes I also remember the French wouldn't let us fly the F-111's thru their airspace.

[voyager9 3,434]

 

 

They couldn't put the F-111 on an aircraft carrier. It was an obvious problem.

 

I agree with the benefit of hindsight.

I know they tried. And there are pictures of the attempts. Big brass ones, those test pilots.

[voyager9 3,434]

Yes I also remember the French wouldn't let us fly the F-111's thru their airspace.

 

Then complained when we hit their embassy. To paraphrase Kennison, "maybe if the pilots had more fn sleep"