So is my friend screwed now?

[oneshot 45]

I was in the same position once. Cops came, said we want to take you in for observation. I went voluntarily (thats key). I was released.

I have never had a problem getting any p2p or address change on my FID. If you dont go voluntarily you will have a problem in the future,meaning that LE had to physically restrain you and put you in the ambulance. People do get depressed at times, its the actions they take in that depression that can be life changing and or ending. Being human is not illegal.

[springfieldxds 0]

Can someone please explain to me, how are the police allowed to take you away because of what one person says? Can they force you to cooperate or are you allowed to refuse to go? Are you allowed to demand a lawyer before you go? That's not evidence in its self, under those terms I can call the police and start naming random people I believe are a threat. Isn't this against civil rights.

 

Wouldn't they need hard evidence that you're a threat to others before they take you away? I just find it hard to believe what one person says is considered enough evidence to forcibly take you.

 

I feel like there's some piece of very important information we're missing.

 

Look at brian akin, his mother said he was depressed but he wasn't taken away yo the psycho ward, though he was arrested for possession of a firearm but not admitted to a hospital as a depressed patient

[oneshot 45]

they most certainly can force you and thats when it becomes a problem.You are then in police custody.let me add that my incident was a very long time ago. I would guess things have changed since then.

[MrSurfboard 1]

Can someone please explain to me, how are the police allowed to take you away because of what one person says? Can they force you to cooperate or are you allowed to refuse to go? Are you allowed to demand a lawyer before you go? That's not evidence in its self, under those terms I can call the police and start naming random people I believe are a threat. Isn't this against civil rights.

 

Wouldn't they need hard evidence that you're a threat to others before they take you away? I just find it hard to believe what one person says is considered enough evidence to forcibly take you.

 

I feel like there's some piece of very important information we're missing.

 

Look at brian akin, his mother said he was depressed but he wasn't taken away yo the psycho ward, though he was arrested for possession of a firearm but not admitted to a hospital as a depressed patient

 

Correct, it's not as simple as the word of someone else, Officers would need to believe the report to be true. Usually though, a case worker from the country screening service make a visit to the house. They do a field interview and if they feel you need to go, guess what, you go. All they do is sign a piece of paper give it to the PD and you are off to the crazy house for evaluation.

[JrzyGuy30 0]

I would encourage your friend to find an ambulance chaser. Then seek a sum in the low five figures. Most Universities can't mount a defense for under about $25k, and will cut you a check after some chest thumping.

 

You can't punch someone in the face that needs a good punc in the face anymore, but you can sick a sleazy lawyer on them.

+100

 

If you need a lawyer.. I might have someone you can speak to that you can discuss with and see if he's interested... let me know if you're interested, I'll find out if he is open to this.

[bulpup 98]

For what it's worth, these laws have been around for a very long time. States in past decades have always been loathe to act on them because they frequently lose the resulting lawsuits.

 

There has been a significant resurgence of states doing this this year.

 

For me, the real issue is how much layman's pseudo-psychology is what determines when to call. There really is a need to educate people about this. I am not holding my breath though.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shadow 1]

I was in the same position once. Cops came, said we want to take you in for observation. I went voluntarily (thats key). I was released.

I have never had a problem getting any p2p or address change on my FID. If you dont go voluntarily you will have a problem in the future,meaning that LE had to physically restrain you and put you in the ambulance. People do get depressed at times, its the actions they take in that depression that can be life changing and or ending. Being human is not illegal.

 

I got a little bit more information from him just to clarify on what had happened. When the police had shown up they refused to provide him with much if any information. The "crisis" workers shown up and talked to him, he answered their questions and at no point in time was any threats made or any comments about hurting anyone including himself. The "crisis" workers couldn't make the call themselves and went back to their car and called in the hospital and it was determined over the phone while they were in the car that he should be bought in. They came back and said "because everything that has happened today the doctor feels its best for you to come in"...i find it strange that they said that "happened today" nothing had happened at all except them contacting him. He tried to talk his away out of it, however the crisis workers wouldn't hear it. He knew it was a lost battle and the cops were just waiting for him to try something so instead of putting up a scene he just went in the cop car without being retrained in anyway..no cuffs no physical resistance.

 

Here is the killer part...when being released he was asked to sign a medical release back to the school...when asked why what information they would be telling the school the person replied "so we can let them know you aren't a dangerous person".

[PK90 3,570]

He voluntarily went. The answer to your original question is still "no".

[Handyman 5,682]

This is all very troubling.

 

When something like this happens and you are absent from work, how exactly do you explain the absence? Or to your family? "Yeah, I am being brought in for an involuntary psychiatric evaluation..."

 

If you are a single parent, who takes custody of your children while you are being "evaluated"? Who pays for all this? And what is the recourse against someone that subjects you to a frivilous evaluation?

 

I have come to agree very much with the "punch in the face" comment above.

[KramD52 0]

Problem with a scenario such as this, especially considering recent news events, is that it puts everyone involved into CYA mode.

[mipafox 438]

Bulpup, you got what you wanted.

 

Psychological issues mean nothing.

 

Unfounded psychological concerns and a firearm are something the Government must get to the bottom of.

 

Congratulations.

 

BTW, I want to remind you again, owning firearms for other than competing in a sport or hunting is an indication of a psychological issue.

[bulpup 98]

Bulpup, you got what you wanted.

 

Psychological issues mean nothing.

 

Unfounded psychological concerns and a firearm are something the Government must get to the bottom of.

 

Congratulations.

 

BTW, I want to remind you again, owning firearms for other than competing in a sport or hunting is an indication of a psychological issue.

 

The depths of your misunderstanding of me are astounding.

 

I didn't get my "wish," I told you what was coming. It was only a matter of time.

 

The point is, and has always been, that the anti's will use the loopholes of mental illness treatment in this country to gain ground in anti gun legislation. That the fear of mentally ill will be the next battle ground in the 2A fight.

 

By choosing to argue a sidepoint you ended up being unprepared for exactly what I was talking about. And now you say I got my wish?

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Soju 153]

This is a vague statement meant to induce a reaction and response that I know won't be accurate because that is what I am probing for!

 

Oops. Irrelevant, confusing, and intentionally misleading post. My bad.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

Sounds to me that the person who wet his pants about guns, knows who your friend and probably vis versa

[Shadow 1]

Once again thanks all for the advice here. I talked to him over the weekend to see what he plans to do

and he will be contacting lawyers and including the ACLU (i have my doubts about that) and see what he can do in terms of suing them.

 

I think what got him pissed the most was when he was being discharged was the screener that was going over the discharge information said

that he should probably write a letter to his school and apologize for this. Is this the normal libtard way of thinking? They basicly kidnap the guy and force him into a hospital and he should be the one that apologizes for him not being found dangerous. They probably told him that in case he was going to sue then in some crazy way he would be admitting fault and have no grounds. I don't know i don't have a liberal retards brain and i don't understand or follow their way of thought.

[mikelets456 78]

This is complete bs, this state is in the shitter and is ready for a flush, I would tell your friend to phone a couple lawyers and ask them what his options are, he might even have a lawsuit option to throw at them

 

Ianal

 

I was thinking the same thing. Whatever happened to "due process"? Something does not make sense...either the story or the state. When my mom went through therapy (very recently) my dad could not get her admitted to a hospital even when he pleaded. The Doc said "she has to want to be observed/go on her own". So if i use the word "gun and depressed" in the same sentence i could be hauled off to the "funny farm"? Is this what NJ has turned in to? Is this the direction our country is headed? If so, no one will be able to keep a firearm because of hearsay.

[kman 56]

The best thing you can do is call one of the gun attorneys listed in the back of the ANJRPC newsletter and get some real advice from someone knowledgeable. If you are an ANJRPC member, phone advice from a real attorney is free. I dont know why people dont take advantage of this. Dues for basic ANJRPC membership is so cheap.

 

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[Shadow 1]

Posting back on here because i do not know why but everyone thinks im trolling or this is some kind of joke.

 

Anway he got his bill with the code 296.90

I found this online but we are confused how this is going to affect him if it does at all.

 

"

2012 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis Code 296.90

 

Unspecified episodic mood disorder

 

 

 

Mood disorder not otherwise specified (MD-NOS) is designated by the DSM-IV as the diagnostic code (296.90) for mood disorders that are impairing but do not fit in with any of the officially specified diagnoses. According to the DSM-IV, MD-NOS encompasses "any mood disorder that does not meet the criteria for a specific disorder." An adolescent or an adult can be affected by a MD-NOS. An example of a MD-NOS can include being in minor depression frequently in various intervals such as once every month or once in three days.^[1]

This is essentially a blanket term for any mood disorder that is not covered under its own term in the DSM-IV."

 

so let me guess because this is NJ and they decided to hit him with this "blanket diagnos" its over for him?

 

Would it explain the visit with the feds? yes that really did happen. i have the agent name and number which i wont post on here for obvious reasons.

 

OP,

Discharge papers are really not going to provide you too much insight. They just explain why your friend was allowed to leave.

He is going to get a bill. On that bill there will be a diagnosis. This may be in the form of a description or a code (ICD9 or ICD10). Google "ICD" and that code. See what it says. If that diagnosis is not a Psychiartic condition, he is free and clear. If it is, tell him to proceed as discussed adnaseum above.

[bulpup 98]

This is essentially a blanket term for any mood disorder that is not covered under its own term in the DSM-IV."so let me guess because this is NJ and they decided to hit him with this "blanket diagnos" its over for him?Would it explain the visit with the feds? yes that really did happen. i have the agent name and number which i wont post on here for obvious reasons.

 

No. Yes? Maybe?

 

There is nothing conclusive in anything you have told us. I think based on everything you have been reading of late here you can see that despite everything you are told there may be more going on than you are privy to. Maybe, maybe not. It is up to you to decide. Being told a one sided story by your friend is always very compelling.

 

I for one find it admirable you are trying to find information out for your friend. However, you might consider that your friend in school should be capable of figuring this all out for himself. Smart people can ask their own questions from experts. Friends asking on another's behalf on the web might not help, as you have seen here.

 

It is good that you quote the DSM. It specifically quotes an unspecified mood disorder. He was released, not seen to be in need if treatment and let go. Will that show up on his mental health record? I would bet yes just to be safe. That is why I advise he get some better information from the doctor, including his phone number. This is because that document can be taken the wrong way by an investigating officer. Remember, it is best to act as if no one on this country knows shit about mental health. Any flag will be a question mark. Have the answer ready.

 

But I have a few questions for you. Did your friend tell you what the agents asked? As you have seen, asking "about what happened at the school" does not pass some experienced people's BS test.

I had a friend that cried about how his girl friend called the police and lied to them saying he threatened to stab her just to "get him." He even told me that the police told him she knew she was lying and wrote it into the report. I asked to see it and when he showed it to me and it sure as hell said nothing if the sort. He pointed to the cop's handwritten report and said "see? It says it right there!"

Well, it didn't. It said they found evidence he locked her in a room and he threatened to cut her and that he was removed from the premises. He was so into never being the bad guy he was living in a fantasy world. He wasn't crazy, he just needed to be the victim and made sure his story would cause outrage. He was later convicted on the domestic violence charge and never copped to being anything other than a righteous saint.

 

Moving on. That report would not trigger the feds visit. But whatever did and the fact that they did visit might be the end of any further P2Ps. Without every single iota of what happened, which even as a best friend you are not entitled to, you will never be able to get a complete answer. Especially not here.

 

I want to leave with two more thoughts:

 

First, you posted earlier that your friend said he was depressed and that coupled with the knowledge that he had guns prompted the initial visit. There is a lot to that tiny morsel of information and it has been talked about a lot, but consider that the first report might have been made to prevent a suicide, not a mass shooting.

 

 

Second, don't say your depressed if you aren't. It's a clinical term. Kids love to say things like their mom is psychotic. No, it is just a grossly misused and misapplied term. When I say the US is lacking in knowledge of mental health I can point right at people using clinical terms as slang and the other person that thinks its being used properly.