Proposed AR build

[checko 180]

So after I piked up my new Spikes Lower at Lou's I'm trying to think of what I want on my new toy. Feel free to give opinions on my proposed choices. My goal is to have the shortest lightest AR possible for "run and gun" style classes

 

Spikes Lower

 

PSA MOE+ LPK

 

BCM 14.5 Upper with pinned gunfighter comp ****not sure about the m4 socom barrel or the lightweight barrel****

 

Magpul MOE handguard

 

Magpul STR stock

 

Not sure on the BCG but it will probably be an m16 group with full mpi and hpt testing.

 

BCM Gunfighter or Rainier Arms Raptor charging handle

 

 

I'm generally not a Magpul fanboy but I have to say, I love the moe+ grip and i like the trigger guard. I can't think of any handguard that will easily attach a light and foregrip and be so lightweight. I'm not sold on the stock at all, I could honestly go with anything at the moment. I don't know if I want to go with a upgraded trigger or not, maybe the spikes battle trigger

 

What if any functional differences are there between the m4 and lightweight barrels? Is the weight savings worth it?

 

Please share your thoughts. Thanks!

[High Exposure 5,669]

If you are looking for lightweight and reliable, why not just get the BCM EAG HS Upper?

 

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-EAG-HS-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-package-p/bcm-uh-eag2-hs.htm

 

 

Features

BCMGUNFIGHTER™ Mod 3 Charging Handle

14.5" Mid Length Gas System

Permanently Installed BCM® A2X™ Flash Hider - Optional

M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension

M4 Feed Ramp Flat Top Receiver

T-Marked Upper Receivers

USGI 5.56mm NATO Chambers

Independently Certified Mil-Spec 11595E Barrel Steel

Chrome Lined Bore and Chamber

Manganese Phosphate Barrel Finish on entire barrel

Mil-Spec F-Marked Forged Front Sights

Taper Pinned Front Sight Base

USGI Government Profile Barrels

HPT (High Pressure Test, per Milspec) Barrels

MPI (Magnetic Particle Inspected, per Milspec) Barrels

Bolt machined from Mil-Spec Carpenter No. 158® steel

HPT Bolt (High Pressure Tested/ Proof)

MPI Bolt (Magnetic Particle Inspected)

Shot Peened Bolt

Chrome Lined Carrier (AUTO)

Chrome Lined Gas Key

Gas Key Hardened to USGI Specifications

Grade 8 Hardened Fasteners Key

Staked Per Mil-Spec

Tool Steel Extractor

BCM® Extractor Spring

Black Extractor Insert

Receiver Machined from Aluminum Forgings 7075-T6

Receiver Hardcoat Anodize per MIL-A-8625F, Type III, Class 2

 

Then take one of EAGs courses to use your $100 voucher.

 

Full disclosure, I have attended 6 EAG classes and Pat is a friend.

 

As for the stock, whatever floats your boat. I am currently coveting a Sully Stock after trying one out on a friend's rifle.

 

http://www.thedefensiveedge.com/category_s/51.htm

 

If you are staying lightweight than a pinned MOE is light, strong and solid.

 

Good Luck!

[Old School 611]

I never understood the 14.5" barrel thing... Because of NFA and a permanently attached comp it's no lighter than a 16" barrel and gives up velocity and subsequently trajectory.

 

 

Oh, and you give up sight radius too.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Old School

[vortex0178 3]

It doesn't have any effect on sight radius since the FSB will either be in midlength or carbine position anyway.

 

Your points about velocity and trajectory probably have some merit, but I'm thinking the performance differences would not be noticeable to the casual shooter.

 

I like the shortest legal length possible while still having a comp, so I went with the 14.5 Spikes Middy w/Dynacomp. Guess it is all a matter of personal preference.

[alowerlevel 77]

I never understood the 14.5" barrel thing... Because of NFA and a permanently attached comp it's no lighter than a 16" barrel and gives up velocity and subsequently trajectory.

 

 

Oh, and you give up sight radius too.

 

Huh? Given both a 16" and a 14.5" with the same barrel profiles and compensators its impossible for the 14.5" to be "no lighter" than the 16". The 14.5" are typically 3-4oz lighter than a 16" and that weight comes off the muzzle end where its more noticable. Another point to mention is that since here in the PRNJ we have to have a comp permanatly attached why not go with an upper that comes with one already done? As to velocity loss, yes there is about 60-75fps loss going to a 14.5", but IMHO the trade off is worth it, besides most people here will never notice the slight loss in velocity.

 

And just how do they give up sight radius? The rifle will still have the same sight radius no matter if its a 11" barrel, a 14.5" barrel or a 18" barrel as long as they use the same length gas system.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

I love the Magpul STR stock.

 

Are you going with a carbine length gas system or midlength?

 

As you can tell - I do like magpul equipment

[Dan 177]

I noticed the "i'm not a magpul fanboy" comment, but IMO there is no need to disassociate yourself from Magpul. They make high quality components for reasonable prices. From what I gather, their stuff is well liked by the full spectrum of folks from mall ninjas to military types.

 

I found that in many cases, trying to move a step up from magpul components, one would often find themselves battling substantially higher price points for what many times would be marginal gains.

[Dan 177]

Oh and I would recommend a BCM upper with a 14.5" middy cozy-ed up in a DD LITE rail system. My opinion comes from my experience of owning one. I haven't done any training with it, but I can't see how it would not work in that role.

 

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-14-5-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Daniel-Defense-p/bcm-urg-mid-14%20ddl12.htm

[Old School 611]

Huh? Given both a 16" and a 14.5" with the same barrel profiles and compensators its impossible for the 14.5" to be "no lighter" than the 16". The 14.5" are typically 3-4oz lighter than a 16" and that weight comes off the muzzle end where its more noticable. Another point to mention is that since here in the PRNJ we have to have a comp permanatly attached why not go with an upper that comes with one already done? As to velocity loss, yes there is about 60-75fps loss going to a 14.5", but IMHO the trade off is worth it, besides most people here will never notice the slight loss in velocity.

 

And just how do they give up sight radius? The rifle will still have the same sight radius no matter if its a 11" barrel, a 14.5" barrel or a 18" barrel as long as they use the same length gas system.

 

You are correct...I dropped the ball on the sight radius thing

 

But you're telling me that NFA comp hanging out there is lighter that a barrel of the same length that makes it legal?

 

Just asking?

[azmaveth 1]

You are correct...I dropped the ball on the sight radius thing

 

But you're telling me that NFA comp hanging out there is lighter that a barrel of the same length that makes it legal?

 

Just asking?

 

Unless you have a crowned 16" barrel, yes.

If I have to pin a muzzle device out at the end anyways, might as well make it as short (light) as possible.

[azmaveth 1]

I can't think of any handguard that will easily attach a light and foregrip and be so lightweight.

 

You'd be surprised that the MOE handguard isn't the lightest thing out there.

There are some rails that are actually lighter.

Check out this chart.

 

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsFnUZMkZNF2DQ&output=html

[alowerlevel 77]

You are correct...I dropped the ball on the sight radius thing

 

But you're telling me that NFA comp hanging out there is lighter that a barrel of the same length that makes it legal?

 

Just asking?

 

No I was saying that if you use the same comp on both rifles the 14.5" will be lighter. Most comps out there that are used on 16" rifles will be long enough to make a 14.5" legal.

 

My opinion is that if you have to have a permanent compensator on your rifle why not get a 14.5"? With a 14.5" you get a rifle that handles better, is lighter, shorter, and IMO looks better, and all you really give up is a 50-75fps loss in velocity.

 

My 14.5" weighs in at 6.5lbs unloaded with a red dot on it, is 33" oal, and shoots like a dream.

[checko 180]

I noticed the "i'm not a magpul fanboy" comment, but IMO there is no need to disassociate yourself from Magpul. They make high quality components for reasonable prices. From what I gather, their stuff is well liked by the full spectrum of folks from mall ninjas to military types.

 

I found that in many cases, trying to move a step up from magpul components, one would often find themselves battling substantially higher price points for what many times would be marginal gains.

 

That comment was more or less just saying I'm open to other companies. I'm not dead set on magpul

[checko 180]

 

 

You'd be surprised that the MOE handguard isn't the lightest thing out there.

There are some rails that are actually lighter.

Check out this chart.

 

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsFnUZMkZNF2DQ&output=html

 

That's a great chart. Thanks!

[checko 180]

I love the Magpul STR stock.

 

Are you going with a carbine length gas system or midlength?

 

As you can tell - I do like magpul equipment

 

I was thinking str for the better cheek weld, while not giving up too Mich weight over the Moe stock

 

I was originally thinking carbine length, but now everyone seems to like the middy. I know its supposed to be softer recoil but how much softer can it be? Its only a .223 round. Plus with a good comp it should have minimal muzzle rise.

 

And wouldnt I still get weight savings with carbine vs mid length hand guards?

[KpdPipes 388]

That's a great chart. Thanks!

 

Yes it is..it's interesting that the Midwest SS gen II series 12" free float is actually LIGHTER than the Lancer 12" Carbon Fiber free float..I was just about to pull the pin on the lancer as well.. Thanks Az!!

[Krdshrk 3,878]

The STR definitely gives a great cheek weld and it's not too heavy. It's lighter than the ACS-L.

[checko 180]

If you are looking for lightweight and reliable, why not just get the BCM EAG Has upper?

 

Then take one of EAGs courses to use your $100 voucher.

 

Full disclosure, I have attended 6 EAG classes and Pat is a friend.

 

As for the stock, whatever floats your boat. I am currently coveting a Sully Stock after trying one out on a friend's rifle.

 

http://www.thedefensiveedge.com/category_s/51.htm

 

If you are staying lightweight than a pinned MOE is light, strong and solid.

 

Good Luck!

 

Yeah that's pretty much what I'm aiming for haha. I like the voucher. His training looks no joke.

[High Exposure 5,669]

Quick thread hijack:

 

Pat and Mike of EAG offer excellent training, and while it is a serious, I always have a lot of fun as well. EAG classes aren't for everyone as they are a big subscriber to there being winners and losers and you will be asked to perform on command regularly throughout the course, hanging it all out there by yourself in front of the entire class. As Pat likes to say, it is NOT a shooting course, it is about fighting with a gun.

 

I am attending another class with EAG (my 2nd Carbine 2 class) at the end of January outside Philly, and am going to bring a group down to another class (my 3rd basic carbine) in the spring down in West Virginia. As a certified training junkie who has been to dozens of classes (Blackwater, Viking Tactics, Black Rock, NJDCJ firearms instructor and rifle instructor, Spartan Group, Northern Red, and many more) I believe that EAG gives me the best value for my $$$. Don't let the "Basic" in the class title fool you, there is much learning to be had. I learned more in my 2 "Basic" classes than in most other courses I have attended, including many Instructor level schools.

 

/hijack

[checko 180]

Quick thread hijack:

 

Pat and Mike of EAG offer excellent training, and while it is a serious, I always have a lot of fun as well. EAG classes aren't for everyone as they are a big subscriber to there being winners and losers and you will be asked to perform on command regularly throughout the course, hanging it all out there by yourself in front of the entire class. As Pat likes to say, it is NOT a shooting course, it is about fighting with a gun.

 

I am attending another class with EAG (my 2nd Carbine 2 class) at the end of January outside Philly, and am going to bring a group down to another class (my 3rd basic carbine) in the spring down in West Virginia. As a certified training junkie who has been to dozens of classes (Blackwater, Viking Tactics, Black Rock, NJDCJ firearms instructor and rifle instructor, Spartan Group, Northern Red, and many more) I believe that EAG gives me the best value for my $$$. Don't let the "Basic" in the class title fool you, there is much learning to be had. I learned more in my 2 "Basic" classes than in most other courses I have attended, including many Instructor level schools.

 

/hijack

 

Well that's a good thing. I like being pushed and held to a standard. I've taken the GAPP defensive carbine class and felt like I could be pushed more. I'm hoping he starts a carbine 2 soon. But a high intensity class from EAG seems like it would be in my wheelhouse.

 

ETA: that's not to say GAPP's class wasn't effective, which it was, just that I wish we had the time to get more advanced or make it a multi day course.