Ideas for Gun Control

[BlueLineFish 615]

that might work... but in fairness to the crazy anti gun crowd.. face to face sales ARE definitely kind of sketchy... it is crazy that even in a super anti gun state like NJ I can buy an AR15 at a rest stop with just a "FID card" that may or may not still be valid.. OR may be stolen all together..

 

I agree. I'm not opposed to all sales going through an ffl. No ftf at all

[vladtepes 1,060]

Good point. There is def going to have to be some sort of compromise here. We as gun owners need to come up with something to possibly help the situation without giving up our rights completely.

 

Requiring firearms to be locked when not on someones person may be a step in the right direction. Yes, it MAY not actually prevent anything, same with a new AWB, but at least its not stripping us of something and it makes people feel a little better.

 

NCIS for every transaction is also another good idea. Yes its a trade off, we have to use an FFL, cost and inconvenience, but its better than more restrictions or worse.

 

I think California requires a "container" of some sort.... to lock guns up... I have always been on the fence about a LAW concerning that... but I have long said if you are a gun owner and you are not securing your guns.. you are acting in a grossly irresponsible way..

[scatterbrains 0]

No more restrictions period.

 

One guy kills some kids with a gun its tragic and horrible, BUT if he didnt get the guns. What was to stop him from killing his mother with a shovel and then rolling propane bombs into the classrooms? NOTHING!

 

You guys need to cut the resrictions crap, its not about common sense its about control and scared uneducated people making irrational emotional decissions.

 

This has been in play since the 1934 and prob earlier. Law abiding people follow the law criminals do not.

Everyone wants to use these most recent murders to "talk" about gun control and how to stop this from happening again.

 

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO STOP THIS TYPE OF THING!@!!!!!!Its happened in every culture and country in mans known history, look to history to fix it its not about disarming its about REARMING.

 

If someone is determined to kill people he is going to succed unless provisions are in play to stop the threat when it happens not 15min later.This incident isnt a good stepping off point for the antis the system worked...he was determined to break existing laws to murder!

 

lets break it down a little...he planned this from the beginning, he murdered his mother (Illegal) then stole her firearms(illegal) then transported those loaded firearms in a motor vehicle probably uncased(illegal in CT) took guns to a school(illegal in CT) tresspassing and B@E (illegal) Murdered 20+ people (ILLEGAL) commited suidide (illegal). He was hell bent on murder and criminals are criminals for a reason THEY DONT FOLLOW THE LAW!!!

 

So someone tell me exactly how more unenforcable feel good BS laws would have remedied that situation? Bad people do bad things whether it be guns, hammers cars etc.

 

Now onto cars, how many of you guys have a kid younger than 17? You lock up your car keys?

 

Same thing mandatory firearm storage requirements defeats the ENTIRE reason for firearms, Self defense of me and mine and god willing if i can YOURS.How many people did the guy in oregon save due to him being prepared to engage and destroy a threat to human life.

 

What if that mall didnt allow ccw? I have a good feeling that man may not have been there or wouldent have had a weapon on him, now more are dead, thankfully the mall and that man were in the right mind.

 

So when you guys start talking reseonable restrictions it makes me sick there are NO reasonable restrictions on the value of me, mine, AND your lives including the same people who want to strip those rights from me.

 

Why because someone has to start standing up, put it out there educate these people. If they wont open their minds to the possiblity they are wrong then fine, THEY are your enemy do everything that you can to destroy their voice of oppostion.

 

Stop bitching about it on a gun forum, start educateing people in the other facets of your life stop hideing like a leper, we need to move this country back towards a country of understanding and rational rule of law.

 

We as a community, hunters, target shooters, collectors, and gun owners in general no matter what your personally into needs to work together to remove the evil stigma of guns. They are an inanimate object much like a car, bus, plane, propane tanks, gasoline diesel, fertalizer, etc.

 

Throughout history you can find "mass" killings used by all the aforementioned items yet only one is so vilified that many "people" have called for the murder, torture, maiming and a generally horrible death to your kids, me, you, your wife, girlfriend, entire family, an entire organazation on WORLDWIDE SOCIAL MEDIA OUTLETS.

 

Jesus wake up people they dont hate guns they HATE YOU!

 

Im done and i really dont care if you disagree or agree with me. If you agree with me then do something about it force the change

NO MORE RESTRICTIONS, NO MORE COMPRIMISE, NO MORE LIES..

[rightisright 3]

No more restrictions period.

 

 

Yep. What he said.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I do not think it is reasonable to allow you access to my potential criminal history...

if you can't afford to spend a few bucks to transfer a gun.. you should reconsider that $800 rifle purchase....

 

people are angry about guns.. and they WILL be looking to make laws... I think it far more beneficial to offer up changes that MAY actually help keep guns out of the hands of criminals... as opposed to laws that are ridiculous and useless...

 

having a check on EVERY gun sale is the only way to verify a non prohibited person... CCW licenses expire.. FIDs are revoked...

 

a dealer would also have the means to manage those transactions better than an individual

 

What do you mean? All NICS tells you is if you can proceed or not.

[vladtepes 1,060]

No more restrictions period.

 

One guy kills some kids with a gun its tragic and horrible, BUT if he didnt get the guns. What was to stop him from killing his mother with a shovel and then rolling propane bombs into the classrooms? NOTHING!

 

You guys need to cut the resrictions crap, its not about common sense its about control and scared uneducated people making irrational emotional decissions.

 

This has been in play since the 1934 and prob earlier. Law abiding people follow the law criminals do not.

Everyone wants to use these most recent murders to "talk" about gun control and how to stop this from happening again.

 

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO STOP THIS TYPE OF THING!@!!!!!!Its happened in every culture and country in mans known history, look to history to fix it its not about disarming its about REARMING.

 

If someone is determined to kill people he is going to succed unless provisions are in play to stop the threat when it happens not 15min later.This incident isnt a good stepping off point for the antis the system worked...he was determined to break existing laws to murder!

 

lets break it down a little...he planned this from the beginning, he murdered his mother (Illegal) then stole her firearms(illegal) then transported those loaded firearms in a motor vehicle probably uncased(illegal in CT) took guns to a school(illegal in CT) tresspassing and B@E (illegal) Murdered 20+ people (ILLEGAL) commited suidide (illegal). He was hell bent on murder and criminals are criminals for a reason THEY DONT FOLLOW THE LAW!!!

 

So someone tell me exactly how more unenforcable feel good BS laws would have remedied that situation? Bad people do bad things whether it be guns, hammers cars etc.

 

Now onto cars, how many of you guys have a kid younger than 17? You lock up your car keys?

 

Same thing mandatory firearm storage requirements defeats the ENTIRE reason for firearms, Self defense of me and mine and god willing if i can YOURS.How many people did the guy in oregon save due to him being prepared to engage and destroy a threat to human life.

 

What if that mall didnt allow ccw? I have a good feeling that man may not have been there or wouldent have had a weapon on him, now more are dead, thankfully the mall and that man were in the right mind.

 

So when you guys start talking reseonable restrictions it makes me sick there are NO reasonable restrictions on the value of me, mine, AND your lives including the same people who want to strip those rights from me.

 

Why because someone has to start standing up, put it out there educate these people. If they wont open their minds to the possiblity they are wrong then fine, THEY are your enemy do everything that you can to destroy their voice of oppostion.

 

Stop bitching about it on a gun forum, start educateing people in the other facets of your life stop hideing like a leper, we need to move this country back towards a country of understanding and rational rule of law.

 

We as a community, hunters, target shooters, collectors, and gun owners in general no matter what your personally into needs to work together to remove the evil stigma of guns. They are an inanimate object much like a car, bus, plane, propane tanks, gasoline diesel, fertalizer, etc.

 

Throughout history you can find "mass" killings used by all the aforementioned items yet only one is so vilified that many "people" have called for the murder, torture, maiming and a generally horrible death to your kids, me, you, your wife, girlfriend, entire family, an entire organazation on WORLDWIDE SOCIAL MEDIA OUTLETS.

 

Jesus wake up people they dont hate guns they HATE YOU!

 

Im done and i really dont care if you disagree or agree with me. If you agree with me then do something about it force the change

NO MORE RESTRICTIONS, NO MORE COMPRIMISE, NO MORE LIES..

 

the point is this...

 

the restrictions in place (mag limitations.... evil features.. etc.. ) do NOT keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have them...

do repeal those laws...

 

replace them with transactions through licensed dealers... so we KNOW that only non prohibited individuals are obtaining guns.. that is not an infringement of your rights..

 

 

and that comment has NOTHING to do with the school shooting..

[DevsAdvocate 112]

that might work... but in fairness to the crazy anti gun crowd.. face to face sales ARE definitely kind of sketchy... it is crazy that even in a super anti gun state like NJ I can buy an AR15 at a rest stop with just a "FID card" that may or may not still be valid.. OR may be stolen all together..

 

It's not crazy. Substitute AR-15 with 'Rare Comic Book', and it's not sketchy? WTF?

 

I Want to transfer a shotgun from Father to Son? Go to an FFL? WTF!

[vladtepes 1,060]

It's not crazy. Substitute AR-15 with 'Rare Comic Book', and it's not sketchy? WTF?

 

I Want to transfer a shotgun from Father to Son? Go to an FFL? WTF!

 

 

there are no laws prohibiting possession of a comic book.. so it is vastly different..

 

the way the system is.. there is NO way to guarantee the person you are transferring to is a non prohibited person.. no way to verify you are not selling a gun to a guy that just got out of jail and stole someones FID card... no way to check for sure... to pass it through a licensed dealer eliminates that potential...

 

how often do you transfer a shotgun from a father to son... OMG going to an FFL... what an inconvenience.. how many times have you gone to your local gun shop just to check out what they have.. walk around.. shoot the shit...

 

you act like I am saying you get DNA taken.. a psych evaluation.. and 180 day waiting period... way to be extremely dramatic... I am not even saying keep records..

I am simply saying have a licensed dealer clear the sale so at the time of the sale you know the person is not red flagged for firearms purchase..

[TheLugNutZ 21]

It's not crazy. Substitute AR-15 with 'Rare Comic Book', and it's not sketchy? WTF?

 

I Want to transfer a shotgun from Father to Son? Go to an FFL? WTF!

 

really...? a comic book sale and a gun sale are a little different dont you think?

[DevsAdvocate 112]

really...? a comic book sale and a gun sale are a little different dont you think?

 

Nope. It's the transfer of privately owned goods from one person to another. Nothing more, nothing less.

[TheLugNutZ 21]

One is restricted and the other isnt. That simple

[DevsAdvocate 112]

there are no laws prohibiting possession of a comic book.. so it is vastly different..

 

the way the system is.. there is NO way to guarantee the person you are transferring to is a non prohibited person.. no way to verify you are not selling a gun to a guy that just got out of jail and stole someones FID card... no way to check for sure... to pass it through a licensed dealer eliminates that potential...

 

how often do you transfer a shotgun from a father to son... OMG going to an FFL... what an inconvenience.. how many times have you gone to your local gun shop just to check out what they have.. walk around.. shoot the shit...

 

you act like I am saying you get DNA taken.. a psych evaluation.. and 180 day waiting period... way to be extremely dramatic... I am not even saying keep records..

I am simply saying have a licensed dealer clear the sale so at the time of the sale you know the person is not red flagged for firearms purchase..

 

Neither are there laws banning the possession of an AR-15 either, so what's your point?

 

I already gave you an alternative I am willing to support: Civilian Access to NICS. Supply NICS with the DL# and SS# of the buyer, and wait for the 'OK' to transfer. Piece of cake. Also, get rid of the $15 NICS fee and make the taxpayers foot the bill for the service. Heck, I would go as so far to create a NICS iPhone/Android APP, that way you skip the telephone call and operator and just get the transfer.

 

I don't see why the latter is so difficult to do. I also don't see why I need to go to an FFL for every little thing.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

One is restricted and the other isnt. That simple

 

Restricted in certain ways, but not all. There is nothing illegal about transferring a rifle from one person to another in a middle location.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Wow...comparing a comic book to a gun....pure genius. I can't even believe that was used in an attempt to rationalize something.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Neither are there laws banning the possession of an AR-15 either, so what's your point?

 

 

 

 

alcohol is private property.. can you give it to minors?

 

there ARE laws banning possession of an AR15 by a felon.. which is why you need to VERIFY one is not a felon when you transfer a gun to them.. the current method of verifying is a joke.. and could be improved..

[scatterbrains 0]

the point is this...

 

the restrictions in place (mag limitations.... evil features.. etc.. ) do NOT keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have them...

do repeal those laws...

 

Do you honestly think this would happen when is the last time a LAW has been repealed..? Im sorry thats dilusional. If common sense would prevail def but it wont take suppresors for instance, the aniti want to emulate europes gun laws, then make suppressors a house hold cash and carry item, for saftys sake.

 

replace them with transactions through licensed dealers... so we KNOW that only non prohibited individuals are obtaining guns.. that is not an infringement of your rights..

-Why, whats in place now works, it is up to the BUYER to be legally allowed to purchase, so there is already a law about this why is another needed.

It would do nothing to quell the fact that criminals will still get whatever they need/want.

Chicago, DC, NYC, Camden, Trenton, Newark are perfect examples of this.

Ill bet in the anti gun utopia of chicago more people were killed over the weekend than in one classroom

 

and that comment has NOTHING to do with the school shooting..

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Wow...comparing a comic book to a gun....pure genius. I can't even believe that was used in an attempt to rationalize something.

 

Oh, please. Whatever it is, it doesn't matter. It's a private sale between myself and someone else. If they do something crazy with it, then you can hold me responsible. Until then, sod off.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Honestly, opening NICS to everyone is the best solution. In fact, tying each firearm to a NICS transaction and doing so electronically though a program on the computer or your phone is a pretty solid deal. We can also eliminate the entire FFL system too! Imagine that, no more need to pay some guy to call a phone number to give them your ID info to transfer you a gun! Cut out the middle man!

[BlueLineFish 615]

Yup...apples to apples comparison ...my bad for misunderstanding. Lol...what a joke.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

alcohol is private property.. can you give it to minors?

 

there ARE laws banning possession of an AR15 by a felon.. which is why you need to VERIFY one is not a felon when you transfer a gun to them.. the current method of verifying is a joke.. and could be improved..

 

It's a joke, how? How is that even worse than a STRAW PURCHASE? Oh yeah... you forgot about that one, eh Vladdy boy? Good luck stopping those by running it all through NICS! lol

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Yup...apples to apples comparison ...my bad for misunderstanding. Lol...what a joke.

 

Stop being such a damned pansy about it. It's not like FtF transfers are a major problem. They appear "sketchy" but let's face it. It's not like the FFL system is exactly foolproof. One guy can supply a whole army's worth of goons by being a straw purchaser.

[TheLugNutZ 21]

Oh, please. Whatever it is, it doesn't matter. It's a private sale between myself and someone else. If they do something crazy with it, then you can hold me responsible. Until then, sod off.

 

really? hold you responsable? So if you sold someone a rife and they killed someone with it, you also want to be responsable for that? I think im missing something here.

 

I still cant fathom how you can comp a comic book sale to a gun transfer.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

really? hold you responsable? So if you sold someone a rife and they killed someone with it, you also want to be responsable for that? I think im missing something here.

 

I still cant fathom how you can comp a comic book sale to a gun transfer.

 

Because in an FtF, you need to be sure the person you're selling to isn't a criminal. I know most folks on these forums aren't criminals, I know my friends aren't criminals, I know my family aren't criminals. If I don't know you, then I won't sell to you.

 

But if I sell to you, and I'm not reasonably sure you're not a criminal, then it's on me. NJ makes such a defense easy because we have FPIDs and PPPs. Other states are a bit more loose.

 

As for the comparison, it's because both are privately owned items. I don't care how 'restricted' one appears, it's still just a piece of property.

[BlueLineFish 615]

 

 

Stop being such a damned pansy about it. It's not like FtF transfers are a major problem. They appear "sketchy" but let's face it. It's not like the FFL system is exactly foolproof. One guy can supply a whole army's worth of goons by being a straw purchaser.

 

Not being a pansy keyboard Rambo. Take it easy tough guy. Straw purchases here aren't an issue but elsewhere such as Virginia are. Listen...is it going to stop illegal purchases...no...of course not. There will always be illegal guns. I just say open the NICS to everybody so every transfer can be verified. Again this will not stop illegal guns.

[woodentoe 14]

Stop being such a damned pansy about it. It's not like FtF transfers are a major problem. They appear "sketchy" but let's face it. It's not like the FFL system is exactly foolproof. One guy can supply a whole army's worth of goons by being a straw purchaser.

 

You're making their case for them.

 

Having to get run through NICS is a deterrent. If a straw purchase can choose between going to a gun shop and having a NICS run or going to a gun show and doing FTF in the parking lot all day without NICS what do you think they choose? You think the guns that wind up on the street in NYC are coming from gun shops? They're coming from FTF transfers.

[vladtepes 1,060]

 

 

Do you honestly think this would happen when is the last time a LAW has been repealed..? Im sorry thats dilusional. If common sense would prevail def but it wont take suppresors for instance, the aniti want to emulate europes gun laws, then make suppressors a house hold cash and carry item, for saftys sake.

 

-Why, whats in place now works, it is up to the BUYER to be legally allowed to purchase, so there is already a law about this why is another needed.

It would do nothing to quell the fact that criminals will still get whatever they need/want.

Chicago, DC, NYC, Camden, Trenton, Newark are perfect examples of this.

Ill bet in the anti gun utopia of chicago more people were killed over the weekend than in one classroom

 

the last time a law was repealed? I have a box of 30 round mags... in the US the AWB ended a long time ago....

 

leaving the burden on the seller with no means to verify.. or relying on the buyer (who may be prohibited) is kind of a ridiculous system... there is literally no check..

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Not being a pansy keyboard Rambo. Take it easy tough guy. Straw purchases here aren't an issue but elsewhere such as Virginia are. Listen...is it going to stop illegal purchases...no...of course not. There will always be illegal guns. I just say open the NICS to everybody so every transfer can be verified. Again this will not stop illegal guns.

 

What do you mean they aren't an issue? It's so easy? Apply for an FFL, get a few PPPs, and then buy all the guns you want! Even better, all you need to do is put them all in a safe, go on a long vacation, tell a few "friends" and come back to a house where your cheapo gun safe was busted open. One and done.

 

FtF transfers aren't the problem, and your solution in stopping them won't stop illegal guns any more than an FFL will. Frankly, I don't see why we need FFLs anymore in this day in age. NICS pretty much makes them obsolete.

[vladtepes 1,060]

 

It's a joke, how? How is that even worse than a STRAW PURCHASE? Oh yeah... you forgot about that one, eh Vladdy boy? Good luck stopping those by running it all through NICS! lol

 

with a straw purchase you need to find someone who can legally purchase to make the purchase... which is harder than making the purchase yourself unprotected..

[DevsAdvocate 112]

You're making their case for them.

 

Having to get run through NICS is a deterrent. If a straw purchase can choose between going to a gun shop and having a NICS run or going to a gun show and doing FTF in the parking lot all day without NICS what do you think they choose? You think the guns that wind up on the street in NYC are coming from gun shops? They're coming from FTF transfers.

 

Firstly, who know where those guns are coming from? Is there any actual evidence that FtF transfers are the cause? Because guess what: FtF transfers aren't super high volume. Sure a criminal or two might get one or two guns. But the money is in straw purchasing. You can buy handguns/rifles at a wide variety of gun shops, get the checked, then report them "stolen".

 

If they want to come for FtF transfers, which I don't get why they would, because Sandy Hook had nothing to do with THAT, then just open NICS up to everyone, issue FFLs like candy, and just let people buy guns easily.

 

Frankly, it's time to reform the system and cut the stupid out. Forcing everyone to go to an FFL is pretty friggin dumb. That's not fixing anything either.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

with a straw purchase you need to find someone who can legally purchase to make the purchase... which is harder than making the purchase yourself unprotected..

 

Not really. Like I said... buy a few guns, let them get "stolen", and profit. See? So now you've eliminated a non-problem with FtF sales, and moved to Straw Purchases. Good job guys, you have accomplished NOTHING while making things a pain in the ass for the rest of us.