S2723 Revises Firearm Purchaser ID and handgun purchase permits (Sweeney, Norcross, Weinberg)

[Steve_G 51]

I just saw Barbara Buono on NJ12 saying that if the magazine limit is not included in this bill she will not sign it..

 

that's good right?   the mag limit is not in this bill, right?   (i've read it online but my mind is dizzy from deciphering the legale-eze of it..)

buono refusing to sign is just as irrelevant as her running for governor. The house and senate have already struck their compromise. Whatever makes it through the full senate vote will make it's way to the Gov's desk. From there. it is all up to him. And no, the mag limit bill is not in there.

[MeanderingCuban 8]

If I were the praying type, I'd pray that someone from NJ2AS or ANJRPC (you know, the guys doing "the heavy lifting" behind the scenes) is feeding this wisdom into Sweeney's ear in real time and making it clear that when his rural constituents walk into this s*** storm, he's toast.

 

I'm willing to believe that he just hasn't thought through some of these provisions to their full implications. If he had, he's smart enough to know that he'll face a revolt at home as soon as the good old boy fudds get hit in the face with this and finally wake up to what he just did to them.

Sweeney could give less of a shit about the hunters or anyone else. He is simply getting more votes and money form the other side. If NJ was a gun friendly state Sweeney and Weinberg would have guns falling out of their asses.

[wooly bugger 1]

Sweeney could give less of a shit about the hunters or anyone else. He is simply getting more votes and money form the other side. If NJ was a gun friendly state Sweeney and Weinberg would have guns falling out of their asses.

Well, maybe he should start giving a little more of a sh**.

In 2011, he beat his republican challenger 25k to 20k votes. That's not a landslide by NJ standards. And it's a significantly lower margin than he had in 2007. If he pisses off enough of his rural constituents, he could be ousted.

[dman2112 6]

Never happen. This state is too corrupt

[Carcano 14]

Just noticed this one, regarding dealers:

 

" (3) No firearm or imitation thereof shall be placed in any window or in any other part of the premises where it can be readily seen from the outside"

 

So, now, there needs to be a special room, like the porn section in a video store, so as not to risk offending the sensitive eyes of passers by.

 

Wait!, so buying a firearm/ammunition will be like...well...you know?

 

What next, have a special room for pressure cookers???

[Carcano 14]

keep POUNDING Christie

 

Pounding Christie? No, he is already pounding down another sub payed for with our tax dollars.

 

He hasn't made a single attempt to stall these bills, he doesn't care it's plain and simple.

[wooly bugger 1]

Just called Sweeney's office this AM to express my concerns about the lack of public comment for S2723. They released the changes Friday night and are voting tomorrow. Someone actually picked up the phone.

Give her a piece of your mind: 856-251-9801

[Howard 538]

PLEASE EVERYONE, don't just bitch about what the Senate in NJ is trying to do to us, contact the governor via phone, fax, email and tell him why these laws are wrong. Do it every day. Fill up his inboxes and maybe, just maybe he will do something. Here is mine for this morning. Feel free to use it, or go write your own - but don't get mad - DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE:

Dear Governor Christie:

Laws need to have some basis in fact, and should not be arbitrary nor capricious. The package of proposed draconian gun control laws in New Jersey are both arbitrary and capricious with no basis in fact, scientific study, nor even common sense. We require traffic studies to be conducted before speed limits are set in this state, we don’t just pick numbers out of the air. When a highway accident takes place on a road with a 55 mph limit we don’t allow law makers to drop the limit to 25 mph just because it might save one life. So, why are we letting that take place with gun laws? Is it because they sound good to those that have no clue what the current laws already require? Think about this for a while, and read the proposed laws. One such proposal is to require a seven day waiting period to buy a handgun. One could argue this is nothing but an unconstitutional restriction of the 2nd amendment to the constitution, but I won’t go there. I will use sound logic to demonstrate it is nothing but a stupid ploy by Democrats to grab votes while discriminating against a minority group – gun owners.

Democrats claim this will save lives by reducing domestic violence and preventing murders caused by guns that people buy on the spur of the moment in anger. Sounds great, but has no basis in fact – and once you think about it actually serves no legitimate purpose as no one under current law can legally buy a gun on impulse in this state. To buy a handgun you first have to get a firearms ID card (FID) from the state. State law requires this be done in under 30 days, but it is very rare to get one that quickly, and in many parts of the state it is now taking six months or more to get such a document. Once you have that you can only buy rifles or shotguns, not handguns. You also have to acquire a permit to purchase a pistol (P2P) which if you don’t apply for at the same time as the FID takes again the same amount of time to get. Once you have these permits you can then go to a gun store and buy a handgun, but wait, you have to wait again. You have to go through an “Instant” NICS check to yet again be sure you are not a criminal or mentally ill. New Jersey does not seem to understand what the word instant means, as these instant checks are now taking over 17 days. The only reason the state gets away with this is because gun owners obey the laws. Just imagine what would happen if the state government made people wait 17 days to get food stamps, welfare checks or even purchase a six pack of beer.

So, why do we need to slap another seven day waiting period on buying a handgun? To make people think, really? Even if all these other things truly took place in an instant, such an additional blanket restriction still makes no sense. Even if it could be demonstrated that there was some shred of scientific evidence that this could stop crime, it would only make even a shred of sense for someone’ first handgun purchase. How does this serve any purpose when a person is buying their second or subsequent handgun? They already have one and could use that one to commit any act of violence, they don’t “need” the additional item they are going to be forced to wait for. The state already has records of ownership, so it is not an issue to make this apply only to first guns if it could even be demonstrated that the law would do anything other than limit people’s rights. This and most of the proposed laws are nothing but gut reactions that have almost no basis in fact and will do nothing to make New Jersey a safer place. They just illegally infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens and should all receive a veto by the governor.

Howard

[wooly bugger 1]

Just spoke with someone from Norcross's office. Looks like the bill is going to be voted on today, despite our protests.

Time to start bombarding Christie and campaigning against Sweeney. This was a real knife in our back. He's vulnerable, and we can send no stronger message than getting rid of the president of the Senate.

[n4p226r 105]

Looks like ill be turning in my FPID card, buying ammo in person out of state, living with my current collection of handguns, and any rifles I want will be built on 80% lowers

[voyager9 3,437]

It looked like both the Senate and Assembly bills were up for debate/vote today.. anyone know how that works?  I thought the Senate could debate the Assembly version of the bill, or introduce their own (to be aligned later) but not both..

[Carcano 14]

Looks like ill be turning in my FPID card, buying ammo in person out of state, living with my current collection of handguns, and any rifles I want will be built on 80% lowers

 

I was planning on doing the same thing, only using a PA address and get a PA DL. No more FPID crap and no permit to purchase a handgun.

 

Oh, and insurance is cheaper in PA.

[n4p226r 105]

One more vote but we are going to take a break. That doesn't sound fishy at all

[voyager9 3,437]

One more vote but we are going to take a break. That doesn't sound fishy at all

Huh?

[DLF 1]

WTH just happened?

[njJoniGuy 2,133]

There's treachery afoot

 

Secret session in progress

 

Hang the bastahds!!

[ogfarmer 138]

bills moved back for ammendments

[222 3]

S2723 was moved back to 2nd reading for Amendments.

Amendments was passed by 21 yea.

It will be picked up for 3rd reading in subsequent meeting.

[wooly bugger 1]

S2723 was moved back to 2nd reading for Amendments.

 

Amendments was passed by 21 yea.

 

It will be picked up for 3rd reading in subsequent meeting.

Does this mean they didn't screw us (yet?)

[ogfarmer 138]

yup

[222 3]

We will see what got amended with all the bills

 

Hopefully they will post the amendments.

[voyager9 3,437]

They didn't delay the vote to change the bill for the better. According to nj.com:

Sweeney said the Office of Legislative Services neglected to include a provision in the bill that would require online ammunition sales to be reported to state police. He said he was disappointed that they did not vote on it today.

[ogfarmer 138]

I'm not sure that is better. Most online retailers will now probably say wtf is this and is too confusing and troublesome, or it will probably be like Los Angeles, Chicago, New York City, or Massachusetts and only ship to an FFL dealer

[Guest]

the state officials know they dont have to fear any retribution from a legal stand point because there are no lawyers in this state willing to take them on. I believe the pro-gun lawyers in this state like all the regulations and like them to be confusing because that is more money in their pockets.. 

 

Start looking for jobs in other states, free states, and you will be much happier 

[ogfarmer 138]

from NJ2AS FaceBook page

 

Matthew A. "I was at the vote today, as well as Nora Craig and Scott Bach from ANJRPC. All bills that were sent back for Amendments, goes back to committee. We dont know what all the amendments are, but it also gives us time who have been lobbying to fix the bills also. So this is both good and bad, because it also gives the Anti's time to keep their lobby up also."

 

[voyager9 3,437]

I'm not sure that is better. Most online retailers will now probably say wtf is this and is too confusing and troublesome, or it will probably be like Los Angeles, Chicago, New York City, or Massachusetts and only ship to an FFL dealer

 

If that's the only change then its certainly not better. It's as bad as the original CF but now with what essentially amounts to an Internet ammo ban.

[222 3]

Buying Handgun ammo

No person shall sell ... or receive... handgun ammunition unless the purchaser... is the holder... a valid firearms purchaser identification card [,] and a valid copy of a permit to purchase a handgun [,] ora valid permit to carry a handgun, or a valid New Jersey firearms purchaser identifier card embedded with information affirming that the person is qualified and eligible to purchase and receive a handgun... and first exhibits such card...  to the seller...

 

How would you parse this language?

Option A

(a valid firearms purchaser identification card [,] and a valid copy of a permit to purchase a handgun)[,]

ora valid permit to carry a handgun,

or a valid New Jersey firearms purchaser identifier card embedded with information affirming that the person is qualified and eligible to purchase and receive a handgun...

 

 

 

Option B

a valid firearms purchaser identification card [,] and

(a valid copy of a permit to purchase a handgun)[,]

or a valid permit to carry a handgun,

or a valid New Jersey firearms purchaser identifier card embedded with information affirming that the person is qualified and eligible to purchase and receive a handgun...

)

 

 

 

But I think maybe they mean Option B.. Because otherwise everyone who wants to buy a handgun ammo must have a P2P, which is only good for 90 days at a time.  And that New New Jersey Embedded ID card won't be available for another 6 years.

 

After looking at it for a few days, I think the language in section 16 is purposefully intended for Option A.  Handgun ammo requires FID + P2P, or Carry permit, or new FID.  It is further stated as such in the SBA statement.

 

The rifle ammunition language in section 15 used the old language.  The 1st substitute used the old language.  There is no reason for the 2nd substitute to use the new language, if they intended the meaning to reflect Option B FID-only okay.

 

I think the rationale is that, per, Section 21 (f), if you get a P2P after the legislation passes, it's good until your FID expires, not for 90 days.  So you can use that P2P to buy handgun ammo.  But if legislation passes and you don't apply for a P2P, you won't be able to buy handgun ammo.

[ogfarmer 138]

and then if you use your p2p to buy a HG then don't have another you wont be able to buy ammo...correct?

[222 3]

and then if you use your p2p to buy a HG then don't have another you wont be able to buy ammo...correct?

 

 

That is confusing...

[MattH 0]

and then if you use your p2p to buy a HG then don't have another you wont be able to buy ammo...correct?

 

No. You can use a copy of the used permit to purchase ammo.