S2723 Revises Firearm Purchaser ID and handgun purchase permits (Sweeney, Norcross, Weinberg)

[ogfarmer 138]

No. You can use a copy of the used permit to purchase ammo.

ok

[voyager9 3,434]

and then if you use your p2p to buy a HG then don't have another you wont be able to buy ammo...correct?

 

I read it that the p2p isnt limited to a single purchase. It's good until it expires. It is confusing though.

[SlipperyPete 0]

Wonder if they try to slip a magazine limit in this?

[DLF 1]

No. You can use a copy of the used permit to purchase ammo.

Copy of what? It's going to be encoded in a magnetic strip on your driver's license.

 

 

I read it that the p2p isnt limited to a single purchase. It's good until it expires. It is confusing though.

That's the way that I interpret it also.

[222 3]

No. You can use a copy of the used permit to purchase ammo.

 

Did anyone keep their copy of the used permit?

[DLF 1]

Did anyone keep their copy of the used permit?

Actually, yes, I have copies of every bit of paperwork that has anything to do with my firearms.

[222 3]

Copy of what? It's going to be encoded in a magnetic strip on your driver's license.

 

 

That's the way that I interpret it also.

 

They won't put out the new ID right away.  It could be 2 years (25 months per section 3) before anyone sees the new embedded ID.

 

Until then, all they have is the current paper system.  Paper FID, paper P2P.

[222 3]

I think we should all get our FID/P2P applications.

 

And if this bill gets passed, and Chris Christie signs it.

 

On that week, we should all go into our Municipalities and submit the paperwork.

And say we need to apply to get a P2P so we can buy handgun ammo.

 

Considering they are going to be running 250,000 background checks renewing FIDs per year, on top of existing volume, they should have no problem processing the initial P2P works.

[MattH 0]

Copy of what? It's going to be encoded in a magnetic strip on your driver's license.

 

 

That's the way that I interpret it also.

It will take a while to implement the new system if it goes through. Until then we will still be using the paper permits.

[DLF 1]

They won't put out the new ID right away.  It could be 2 years (25 months per section 3) before anyone sees the new embedded ID.

 

Until then, all they have is the current paper system.  Paper FID, paper P2P.

True, for now, and for those who already have paper FPID's and permits. But once the new system is in place, it would appear that you'll need an encoded P2P just to purchase ammunition, even if you don't plan to purchase a new handgun.

[MattH 0]

Did anyone keep their copy of the used permit?

Yes, I have every one of them in a safe with other important documents.

[msokad 3]

This maybe slightly off topic, but did any of the dumb bills have enough votes to override a veto?

[Guest]

sheeple

[222 3]

This maybe slightly off topic, but did any of the dumb bills have enough votes to override a veto?

 

I didn't see anything very controversial in what was passed today.  6 bills passed by near unanimous support.

Car impounding, NICS records, Media Violence, Anti-trafficking, School task Force, Air gun to 3rd degree.

 

The controversial stuff were reported back to 2nd reading.

Terrorist watch list

Embedded Firearm ID

50 cal ban.

[Carcano 14]

The controversial stuff were reported back to 2nd reading.

Terrorist watch list

Embedded Firearm ID

50 cal ban.

 

Terrorist Watch List - That's funny since the BATF has said Shotgun News is a clandestine paper, "a BATF agent swore that "clandestine" publications like Shotgun News had been observed in the Branch Davidian home."

 

Since I subscribe to said publication I should expect a no-knock warrant executed on my home and having my name added to some Govt. database.

 

Embedded Firearms ID  - I wonder how much they are going to charge us for these new embedded firearms ID cards and why bother encoding our  DL's with our FID info? Why not abolish the FID requirement and simply perform a NICS check just like other states do when purchasing a firearm from a FFL?.

 

 

50 Cal Ban - 50 BMG rifles...How many gang bangers in Trenton, Camden, Atlantic City, etc.. can afford to purchase a 50 BMG and the ammo for it? How many times have you heard about a 50 BMG being used in a major crime? Is this some new threat, drive-by 50 BMG shootings?

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

50 Cal Ban - 50 BMG rifles...How many gang bangers in Trenton, Camden, Atlantic City, etc.. can afford to purchase a 50 BMG and the ammo for it? How many times have you heard about a 50 BMG being used in a major crime? Is this some new threat, drive-by 50 BMG shootings?

You never know when a Newark Numbskull or a Camden Crackhead will make a .500S&W zip gun from a piece of 1/2" EMT

[Carcano 14]

You never know when a Newark Numbskull or a Camden Crackhead will make a .500S&W zip gun from a piece of 1/2" EMT

 

Ah, .500 S&W zip guns was so 2012..I guess the Camden crackheads have upgraded...

 

 

 

See? Now they use .50 Cal and up to take out the rival crack house down the street...Very effective or so I hear...

[AdamM 42]

Copy of what? It's going to be encoded in a magnetic strip on your driver's license.

 

 

That's the way that I interpret it also.

 

Have they stated whether it's going to be a magnetic strip or a barcode?  If it is magnetic, that would make it impossible for us to "photocopy" our DL and send to internet companies, as it would not be for them to read it.  And as anyone who has a credit card knows, those magnetic strips don't hold up too well as the cashier usually needs to verify some of the numbers or it won't read at all after awhile.  If it's a barcode, many internet companies may also say it's not worth the hassle of processing those too.  Argh.

 

Anyone want to start an Ammo Superstore in NJ???

[Howard 538]

Have they stated whether it's going to be a magnetic strip or a barcode?  If it is magnetic, that would make it impossible for us to "photocopy" our DL and send to internet companies, as it would not be for them to read it.  And as anyone who has a credit card knows, those magnetic strips don't hold up too well as the cashier usually needs to verify some of the numbers or it won't read at all after awhile.  If it's a barcode, many internet companies may also say it's not worth the hassle of processing those too.  Argh.

 

Anyone want to start an Ammo Superstore in NJ???

According to what Sweeney told me it will be encoded in the thing on the back of your license that looks sort of like a QR code.  He also claimed that police will have no access to that in their patrol cars -- let's not hold our breathe on that.  The joke of the entire thing is we know that a 12 year old hacker will probably very quickly come up with a way to read this information.  It will likely then be used by employers to discriminate against people with guns.

[AdamM 42]

According to what Sweeney told me it will be encoded in the thing on the back of your license that looks sort of like a QR code.  He also claimed that police will have no access to that in their patrol cars -- let's not hold our breathe on that.  The joke of the entire thing is we know that a 12 year old hacker will probably very quickly come up with a way to read this information.  It will likely then be used by employers to discriminate against people with guns.

 

Ok, a QR code is a barcode.  You can scan those with an app on your Smart Phone.  The data *could* be encrypted, but that doesn't mean that it cannot be decoded at some point.  Whether they will "share" that with companies such as Midway, etc. will be another story.

 

As far as the cops in their patrol cars, from what I understand, that is a moot point.  If they call in your DL number, it will already tell them that you have an FID.

[Howard 538]

Its NOT a QR code, I just said it looks a little like one.  Take a look at the back of your license.  Its about 3/4" high and 2" long.  It has what looks like bar-code like lines at both ends and what looks like QR type stuff in the middle.  The question becomes does the "code" actually contain local information, or does it just point to a record in a database - I have no idea.

[voyager9 3,434]

Its NOT a QR code, I just said it looks a little like one.  Take a look at the back of your license.  Its about 3/4" high and 2" long.  It has what looks like bar-code like lines at both ends and what looks like QR type stuff in the middle.  The question becomes does the "code" actually contain local information, or does it just point to a record in a database - I have no idea.

Doesn't matter really.. Your typical Out of State ammo vendor won't be able to look at it to tell if you have  FID/P2P.  They're not going to invest time or money if any sort of equipment or NJSP 'requests' have to be made.  This goes for both the DL and unique ID option... if it can't be visually verified, most out of state places probably won't do it.

[matty 810]

If the Assembly has the last word with this bill, I really don't see it being something that Christie can sign or allow to become law by doing nothimg. he'd be in agreement with the likes of Wienberg, Greenwald, Cryan, Mainor and Lesniak.  He will certainly be a non-starter for most of the Republicans in 2016, his opposition won't forget it.

We'll see, I suppose---

[raz-0 1,259]

Terrorist Watch List - That's funny since the BATF has said Shotgun News is a clandestine paper, "a BATF agent swore that "clandestine" publications like Shotgun News had been observed in the Branch Davidian home."

 

Since I subscribe to said publication I should expect a no-knock warrant executed on my home and having my name added to some Govt. database.

 

Embedded Firearms ID  - I wonder how much they are going to charge us for these new embedded firearms ID cards and why bother encoding our  DL's with our FID info? Why not abolish the FID requirement and simply perform a NICS check just like other states do when purchasing a firearm from a FFL?.

 

 

50 Cal Ban - 50 BMG rifles...How many gang bangers in Trenton, Camden, Atlantic City, etc.. can afford to purchase a 50 BMG and the ammo for it? How many times have you heard about a 50 BMG being used in a major crime? Is this some new threat, drive-by 50 BMG shootings?

 

how the heck is shoitgun news clandestine. It's (or at least was) sold in B&N and borders. It's about as clandestine as computer shopper was. 

[AdamM 42]

Ok, a QR code is a barcode.  You can scan those with an app on your Smart Phone.  The data *could* be encrypted, but that doesn't mean that it cannot be decoded at some point.  Whether they will "share" that with companies such as Midway, etc. will be another story.

 

As far as the cops in their patrol cars, from what I understand, that is a moot point.  If they call in your DL number, it will already tell them that you have an FID.

 

 

Ok, a QR code is a barcode.  You can scan those with an app on your Smart Phone.  The data *could* be encrypted, but that doesn't mean that it cannot be decoded at some point.  Whether they will "share" that with companies such as Midway, etc. will be another story.

 

As far as the cops in their patrol cars, from what I understand, that is a moot point.  If they call in your DL number, it will already tell them that you have an FID.

 

Yes, the current barcode on the back of a Driver License is a "PDF417" code.  I just scanned mine in with a free barcode reading app on my iPhone.  It contains a LOT of "human readable" information and a very small amount of "encrypted" text at the very bottom (which may just be a "MD5 Checksum" for verification).  I can see my full address and even that I have the "Boat" license, then a bunch of misc codes, DOB, etc.

 

So the question is would they really encrypt that you have an FID or would they just have a line that says "DAFID"???  Perhaps anyone with a barcode reader could tell that you have an FID by scanning it...

[Arizona 0]

Since we fill out the SAME application for a FPID and P2P and each would be good until the DL expires why even have a "permit " for a handgun? I just don't get it. Redundant. Just an authorization to purchase firearms embedded in your license would accomplish the same thing.

[voyager9 3,434]

Since we fill out the SAME application for a FPID and P2P and each would be good until the DL expires why even have a "permit " for a handgun? I just don't get it. Redundant. Just an authorization to purchase firearms embedded in your license would accomplish the same thing.

Quiet brain...don't try to apply logic. You'll SEGFAULT in a millisecond.

[Carcano 14]

how the heck is shoitgun news clandestine. It's (or at least was) sold in B&N and borders. It's about as clandestine as computer shopper was. 

 

They allowed really shady advertisements in the 80's, 90's...

 

Supressor "rebuild kits", "80%" lightning links, Templates to drill sear hole on AR/AK rifles, G.I. sears, HK full auto trigger packs, Live grenade fuzes (for M18 smoke grenades, likely for building HE grenades), etc.,

 

But hey, the BATF says you can't play until you pay $$$....and no NFA items are legal in NJ except for Machine Guns but good luck getting a NJ license to buy/own the pre-86 ones.

[222 3]

Quiet brain...don't try to apply logic. You'll SEGFAULT in a millisecond.

 

Oye!  NullPointerException!

 

The amended text for S2723 has been published.  Section 15 and 16 sticks the word "Internet," which basically make the two sections even more ridiculous.

 

The section mandates (unfunded) the superintendent to build a program for electronic reporting by dealers (website?!?) of "Internet sales" of handgun, rifle and shotgun ammo.

 

When you put up a website, you have to allocate the hardware, build the software, configure the architecture, setup the database.  You have to run maintenance, periodic ethical hacks, operational support, patches.  It's millions of dollars of people, software and hardware.

 

How much ammo do NJ dealers sell over the Internet?... Unless if MidwayUSA decides to relocate from Misery.. uh.. Missouri, to New Jersey, probably an aggregate of a few thousands of dollars worth?

 

What the hell is wrong with these people?!?  

[wooly bugger 1]

Oye!  NullPointerException!

 

The amended text for S2723 has been published.  Section 15 and 16 sticks the word "Internet," which basically make the two sections even more ridiculous.

 

The section mandates (unfunded) the superintendent to build a program for electronic reporting by dealers (website?!?) of "Internet sales" of handgun, rifle and shotgun ammo.

 

When you put up a website, you have to allocate the hardware, build the software, configure the architecture, setup the database.  You have to run maintenance, periodic ethical hacks, operational support, patches.  It's millions of dollars of people, software and hardware.

 

How much ammo do NJ dealers sell over the Internet?... Unless if MidwayUSA decides to relocate from Misery.. uh.. Missouri, to New Jersey, probably an aggregate of a few thousands of dollars worth?

 

What the hell is wrong with these people?!?  

 

 

I took that to mean out of state dealers would have to log ammunition they ship to NJ. Unconstitutional as all hell, but when has that made a difference?

If it's just a matter of them logging onto a web site and entering the data, that would be the least of our problems. A bigger problem would be if they had to scan our FID, which of course they can't, unless you mail it to them AND they choose to invest in the scanner for the 5 people in NJ who would actually go through with it.