CC, or otherwise, while hunting?

[Newtonian 453]

The excellent blog post summarizing NJ gun laws states the following:

 

• You may ONLY carry a handgun publicly in NJ if you first obtain a license to carry a handgun from NJ.
  (the exemption of this is if you are carrying a firearm in conjunction with an exempted activity hunting, firearms competition, range, etc.)

 

This seems to imply that one can "carry a handgun" while hunting. Is this true?

[wangsly 47]

You would have to be legally engaged in hunting with that said handgun. I do not think it is legal to hunt anything in this state with a handgun so to answer your question, no.

[halbautomatisch 60]

You would have to be legally engaged in hunting with that said handgun. I do not think it is legal to hunt anything in this state with a handgun so to answer your question, no.

Correct, handguns are not legal to hunt with at all in NJ.

[plode 0]

Just to clarify, you are legally allowed to carry a handgun on property you own.  I haven't read specific hunting laws, but I don't think anything would keep you from carrying a handgun on you, while on your own private property while hunting.  You just can't use it as your hunting weapon. 

 

IE... your bow hunting on your property, you can carry the handgun with you(as far as I know).  Just don't shoot the deer with it.  And be mindful of your property boundaries, don't shoot the deer with the bow, and then go onto your neighbors property with the handgun still strapped to your hip looking for the deer. 

[Parker 213]

 IE... your bow hunting on your property, you can carry the handgun with you(as far as I know).  Just don't shoot the deer with it.  And be mindful of your property boundaries, don't shoot the deer with the bow, and then go onto your neighbors property with the handgun still strapped to your hip looking for the deer. 

 

New Jersey Regs. for bowhunting say:

 

It is unlawful to:

• use or possess a poison arrow or one with an explosive tip
• use an edged head for taking game birds in flight
• use a bow one-half hour after sunset until one-half hour before sunrise during any hunting season
• use a bow and arrow from any vehicle, moving or stationary
• have both a firearm and bow in possession or under control while hunting
• transport in a vehicle a crossbow in the cocked position

[plode 0]

 

New Jersey Regs. for bowhunting say:

 

It is unlawful to:

• use or possess a poison arrow or one with an explosive tip
• use an edged head for taking game birds in flight
• use a bow one-half hour after sunset until one-half hour before sunrise during any hunting season
• use a bow and arrow from any vehicle, moving or stationary
• have both a firearm and bow in possession or under control while hunting
• transport in a vehicle a crossbow in the cocked position

 

 

Oh, I stand corrected then.  Like I said, I didn't read the specific hunting laws. 

I'm guessing it would be OK on your property during a legal shotgun/rifle hunt, just not bow?

[Parker 213]

Oh, I stand corrected then.  Like I said, I didn't read the specific hunting laws. 

I'm guessing it would be OK on your property during a legal shotgun/rifle hunt, just not bow?

 

Nope. 

 

From title2c_chapter39 -

(2) A person carrying a firearm or knife in the woods or fields or upon the

waters of this State for the purpose of hunting, target practice or fishing, provided that

the firearm or knife is legal and appropriate for hunting or fishing purposes in this State

and he has in his possession a valid hunting license, or, with respect to fresh water

fishing, a valid fishing license;

[plode 0]

Nope. 

 

From title2c_chapter39 -

(2) A person carrying a firearm or knife in the woods or fields or upon the

waters of this State for the purpose of hunting, target practice or fishing, provided that

the firearm or knife is legal and appropriate for hunting or fishing purposes in this State

and he has in his possession a valid hunting license, or, with respect to fresh water

fishing, a valid fishing license;

 

So I guess I was wrong on all of this

They've certainly found ways to prevent you from carrying a handgun anywhere at anytime in this state. 

 

I can't wait to get the heck out of this state.

[leahcim 680]

Nope. 

 

From title2c_chapter39 -

(2) A person carrying a firearm or knife in the woods or fields or upon the

waters of this State for the purpose of hunting, target practice or fishing, provided that

the firearm or knife is legal and appropriate for hunting or fishing purposes in this State

and he has in his possession a valid hunting license, or, with respect to fresh water

fishing, a valid fishing license;

 

If (as 'plode' first suggested) the activity occurs on land that you own, then I am pretty sure this possession exemption applies:

2C:39-6 e.  Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to

prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises

or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm.

 

The quote above is taken from the same list of exemptions (infra), specifically 2C:39-6 f (2).

IANAL, but both exceptions are written to specifically apply to sections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 (supra), which deals specifically with unlawful possesion of handguns (b), rifles and shotguns ( c), and other weapons (d). 

[halbautomatisch 60]

If (as 'plode' first suggested) the activity occurs on land that you own, then I am pretty sure this possession exemption applies:

2C:39-6 e.  Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to

prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises

or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm.

 

The quote above is taken from the same list of exemptions (infra), specifically 2C:39-6 f (2).

IANAL, but both exceptions are written to specifically apply to sections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 (supra), which deals specifically with unlawful possesion of handguns (b), rifles and shotguns ( c), and other weapons (d). 

The Fish & Game regs Parker is quoting are not listed under 2C:39-5 b,c and d, so 2C:39-6 e cannot supersede the F&G regs.

 

No, you cannot carry a handgun while hunting.

[illy 1]

Nope. 

 

From title2c_chapter39 -

(2) A person carrying a firearm or knife in the woods or fields or upon the

waters of this State for the purpose of hunting, target practice or fishing, provided that

the firearm or knife is legal and appropriate for hunting or fishing purposes in this State

and he has in his possession a valid hunting license, or, with respect to fresh water

fishing, a valid fishing license;

 

That refers to the public land. You can carry, open or concealed, on your own property all day every day. 

 

The Fish & Game regs Parker is quoting are not listed under 2C:39-5 b,c and d, so 2C:39-6 e cannot supersede the F&G regs.

 

No, you cannot carry a handgun while hunting.

 

As in, you can still be fined/lose your hunting license? Maybe, but you won't be charged with unlawful possession on your own land.

 

 

All of which raises a question I've had for a while:

How are F&G regs enforced on private land? It's not like game wardens can come on your property without a warrant. 

[Parker 213]

That refers to the public land. You can carry, open or concealed, on your own property all day every day. 

 

 

As in, you can still be fined/lose your hunting license? Maybe, but you won't be charged with unlawful possession on your own land.

 

 

All of which raises a question I've had for a while:

How are F&G regs enforced on private land? It's not like game wardens can come on your property without a warrant. 

 

They can and will. The game you hunt is managed by the state, not you. You need a hunting license to hunt, even on private land, so all NJ regulations apply with that.

[illy 1]

They can and will. The game you hunt is managed by the state, not you. You need a hunting license to hunt, even on private land, so all NJ regulations apply with that.

 

I get that. But I guess my question would be- What would trigger them coming onto your property?

- Shots fired? That could be anything.

-What about bow hunting?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for a way to game the system (no pun intended) I'm all for hunting regs. and I only hunt public land.

 

I just don't see how "We think you took a turkey without a tag" overcomes the 4th amendment.

[Parker 213]

I get that. But I guess my question would be- What would trigger them coming onto your property?

- Shots fired? That could be anything.

-What about bow hunting?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for a way to game the system (no pun intended) I'm all for hunting regs. and I only hunt public land.

 

I just don't see how "We think you took a turkey without a tag" overcomes the 4th amendment.

 

I think we all are in agreement that you can't have a firearm, any firearm; while bowhunting. That's as plan as day.

 

 

Title 23 of the Fish and Game, Wild Birds and Animals regs. states:

"Hunting" means the possession of an instrument used to take wildlife in a condition that makes the instrument readily usable, while in a place or in proximity thereto where wildlife may be found;

 

So, after reading this, just having any "instrument" could presume you to be hunting. If you are on private property, and it's in the woods, that's a place "where wildlife may be found." Well then, you just may be hunting. You can't have a handgun, since that is not legal for hunting. Like LEO's, CO's too have discretionary powers, so it depends how this scenario will play out if you are caught. It may only be a summons, but if you've taken game and/or might not be legal in some other aspects of the game, you're rolling the dice. Another area of Title 23 specifically states that only weapons legal for hunting are shoulder-fired arms or bows that are drawn and held at arm's length. That covers crossbows, longbows & compounds, along with shotshell, muzzleloader, rimfire and centerfire longarms. But rules out handguns. (That's a shame too, because I'll bet every trapper in the state wishes for a sidearm instead of a longarm. That would be awfully handy.)

 

Nothing stops CO's from asking to see your hunting license. Sometimes they will check your gun's magazine capacity limit, or check whether you have sights on your shotgun if you are shooting slugs, check your pockets to see if you are carrying slugs or buckshot during small game season, or ask if you've been fortunate to have taken any game that day, etc.

 

 

On a different note, if you were to stop and think about it, there is no reason why handguns shouldn't be allowed for large game in NJ. This is the perfect environment for that. The political climate changes everything however.

[halbautomatisch 60]

I get that. But I guess my question would be- What would trigger them coming onto your property?

- Shots fired? That could be anything.

-What about bow hunting?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for a way to game the system (no pun intended) I'm all for hunting regs. and I only hunt public land.

 

I just don't see how "We think you took a turkey without a tag" overcomes the 4th amendment.

The way the F&G laws are written a CO can go onto private property at will to enforce F&G laws.

 

I was in a club that had guys that played by the book. We took over a property that had had a "club" (more like a bunch of outlaws) on it, in the middle of the shotgun season. We had 9 CO's "raid" the property, drove down the logging roads on it and even climbed up into a tree stand of a one of our guys to check his license/equipment/etc. When they realized he had everything nice and legal they asked if we were with a guy they were looking for (who was the landowners buddy), when we explained that we had nothing to do with him and his crew, they backed off some with the intense scrutiny. We found out later on that the landowners buddy had lost his hunting license for two years for getting caught with an untagged deer, but was still hunting anyway, and the CO's knew it, they were watching the place. Keep in mind this property was 250 or so acres and almost all of it could not be seen from the road or any public land.

 

I believe the legal premise for this authority is that the state owns the animals since they migrate over many different properties and therefore can regulate and enforce these regulations of the animals. Whether or not this would or has stood up to constitutional challenge, I can't answer.

[plode 0]

Title 23 of the Fish and Game, Wild Birds and Animals regs. states:

"Hunting" means the possession of an instrument used to take wildlife in a condition that makes the instrument readily usable, while in a place or in proximity thereto where wildlife may be found;

 

So, after reading this, just having any "instrument" could presume you to be hunting. If you are on private property, and it's in the woods, that's a place "where wildlife may be found." Well then, you just may be hunting. You can't have a handgun, since that is not legal for hunting.

So what you're telling me is that because of some hunting regulation, I cannot CC a handgun anywhere on my property because wildlife may be found here? 

 

That would also mean I cannot carry a knife on a hike through a state forest(even though it has a lawful use of cutting rope or making kindling or slicing my sandwich in half). 

[Parker 213]

So what you're telling me is that because of some hunting regulation, I cannot CC a handgun anywhere on my property because wildlife may be found here? 

 

That would also mean I cannot carry a knife on a hike through a state forest(even though it has a lawful use of cutting rope or making kindling or slicing my sandwich in half). 

 

You can carry a handgun on your property, just don't do so while bowbunting nor should you give anyone the illusion you may be hunting.

 

You can carry a knife in the woods, just like you can on your person or in your car. Have a good reason for it and don't be doing anything else that may be interpreted as illegal.

 

This is, after all, New Jersey.

 

PS - I would read Title 23 if you have time. It's a good read and chock full of interesting things.

[Spartiati 63]

Just to clarify, you are legally allowed to carry a handgun on property you own.  I haven't read specific hunting laws, but I don't think anything would keep you from carrying a handgun on you, while on your own private property while hunting.  You just can't use it as your hunting weapon. 

 

IE... your bow hunting on your property, you can carry the handgun with you(as far as I know).  Just don't shoot the deer with it.  And be mindful of your property boundaries, don't shoot the deer with the bow, and then go onto your neighbors property with the handgun still strapped to your hip looking for the deer. 

Not sure it is so clear.  There is a NJ reg which prohibits a hunter from carry both a Bow and a firearm at the same time while in the field hunting.  One could argue that a hunter on their own provate property can carry the handgun as he can't hunt with it anyway but this is NJ.