Gun Prices in NJ and the ridiculousness of putting up with it.

[45Doll 5,880]

I am a firearms customer, not a vendor. I have also been a small business of one. I agree with most of the vendors on this post and would put it this way: all the 'free customer service' in the world will not pay your lease or keep the lights on. The numbers must work or you're out of business.

 

If you have built a cash flow to the point where you have the latitude to offer 'free' stuff, great. If you have not, customers who come to your store expecting all the 'free' stuff without ever buying anything become much more obvious, and (I would think) negatively contribute to the attitude of the owner who's thinking about the next bill he has to pay. There are plenty of customers who do all their browsing and handling in the LGS, then buy online to save (a little or a lot) of money.

 

I had several conversations with my local FFL before I bought the first firearm. We set expectations on both sides. When I was satisfied they would service me appropriately, I started buying from them almost exclusively. They have held up their end of the stick, so the only exceptions have been firearms (less than three) they could not acquire. When I order from them now I don't even ask for a quote; I know their price will be fair considering they're an LGS. (Yes, I know I'm fortunate that $50-100 won't make or break me.) And I pay it to support their locality and service in my world. Part of my motivation is knowing if I didn't have my local FFL (or another one in NJ) I wouldn't be ABLE to buy a handgun. Period. So helping them keep their lights on is in my interest.

 

In the rest of the commercial world, every time I hear someone urging us to 'buy American, even if it costs more' I laugh, because I've met very few people who will actually do that when the money's coming out of their pocket. They are as frugal with their personal dollars as the vendor must be with theirs.

 

Here's a quote I always remembered from a discussion between a vendor and customer about quality and timeliness of service and product:

 

"Speed costs money. Now get out your checkbook and tell me how fast you want to go."

[MidwestPX 172]

Again gun stores should stop thinking that they are in the business of selling guns, they should think about being the business that sells gun accessories, consumables, etc.  Margin is higher, legal issues are less, etc.

 

Think of it this way. Do you think Wawa is in the business of selling gas, or coffee/food/tums? They break even on the gas, they make their money on the rest.

Do you think Dodge makes money on selling Vipers, or Darts?

B&M gun stores survive on the upsell.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I think you're wrong......You shoot at Shore Shot as do I and I buy my targets there {$2.00/5. possible mark up on 5 pieces of paper? 500%] I don't buy my ammo there but [50 rounds of basic range ammo, member price $21.99.markup? 40%] cleaning supplies [small tube of Flitz $11.99, markup 35%] just to name a few and on several occasions I've witnessed accessories sold [extra mags/speed loaders,gun cases/rugs,cleaning chemicals,ect]

Now I know I can get most if not all of these online for less but they have been good to me and I try to support them in my own small way but don't for a minute think that add on sales is not a very large part of any gun shop's bottom line or there would not be so much valuable floor space devoted to accessories....ever been to Cabelas?

 

The targets they aren't that cheap, unless they are printing em themselves. The ammo I don't know what caliber estimate

[Vlad G 345]

B&M gun stores survive on the upsell.

 

Correct. Which one do you think you can upsell me, a gun when I came in for targets, or targets, ammo, holsters, when I came in for a gun?

 

edited to add: Also if I came in to just browse and kill time, which one am I most likely to buy on a lark, an AR or a bottle of gun oil and a box of primers?

[Oldspice 0]

Let's not forget the 30 day rule with pistols

 

You can get more than 12 in a year. As I'm sure you're probably aware, it's possible to go the route of using the multiple handgun purchase exemption. You'd have to have patience to not bring stuff home right away, and an ffl that's willing to maybe hang on to some of your purchases while you shop for others until you're ready to bring them all home at once. Not saying that it's efficient, but it's certainly possible...

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358]

This thread reminds of when people call Best Buy "Amazon's Showroom".

[Shawnmoore81 623]

You can get more than 12 in a year. As I'm sure you're probably aware, it's possible to go the route of using the multiple handgun purchase exemption. You'd have to have patience to not bring stuff home right away, and an ffl that's willing to maybe hang on to some of your purchases while you shop for others until you're ready to bring them all home at once. Not saying that it's efficient, but it's certainly possible...

The average gun owner doesn't know this and it wouldn't matter anyway.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Heck is bet a way larger percentage of the population would own a gun if they didn't have these stupid rules

[NightOwl 0]

Is that a joke? Try to move more volume? Nothing that the store can do will change the customer market. Nothing that the store can do will create a need for you to fill with another gun. You can only buy a MAX of 12 pistols per year, and no one actually does that. You can't hunt with a center fire rifle (excluding brand new regs on varmits) so I've got multiple large caliber bolt actions that never move. Recreational shooting is NOT popular in NJ; people don't have multiple rifles or plinkers like they do in other states. People aren't shooting enough to buy a lot of ammo. Many people are scared to even transport their guns out of their home to practice with it, they almost view their gun as a liability! So no, there is no price change that can create more gun buyers or more active shooters.

 

Maybe I can shed some light on this. I work at a LGS and I do a lot of pricing. I shop around with about 12 distributors/wholesalers to fill the shelves. For example, a new Hi Point carbine from us is tagged at about $369-379. But I go to gun shows in PA and see them, new from dealers, for as low as $299. After overhead (transporting, taking a day out of the store) I am curious to know how much that dealer is getting them for because my store could never sell that low. We typically do not sell for exact MSRP unless it's a cheaper gun, for example a Marlin model 60 at $199. To be competitive and help out our customers we knock at least $10 off, a "little" more in some cases. As a long time customer of the NJ gun market I think our prices are very good.

 

Consider this too; Sundays, a day when working people are off and possibly available for fun shopping, we can't even sell guns because of the State.

 

All the money after our dealer cost is NOT profit. We pay rent for the building. Alarm systems, insurances, maintenance, repair, utilities. You think paying taxes once a year is bothersome? Businesses do it every month and we NEVER see a return. There are 3 employees that need to be paid and insured. That is 3 human lives that receive all of their money from the stores profit before the store gets to call it profit. All of their bills, gas, food and recreation. We buy inventory and tie up the money until a gun can be sold. we transport inventory when we buy ammo or go to shows to sell. We lose 3% on credit card transactions because we don't pass that hit onto the customer, even though we should. When I look at $2000 worth of CC transactions that day and I think of losing 3% overall it hurts. Add up all of those expenses and then take it away from the measly profit on a new gun. What's leftover is the actual profit.

 

Honestly it's probably not worth it financially to stay open at a store, but we do it because we're gun people and we want to help the gun folks. If you don't like it, fine, keep not shopping at we small mom-and-pop shops, but then don't complain when we're gone. Then the market will be worse, not better.

 

What stops you from selling to people in other state who do buy more and have far less restriction? 

As an example: newegg is a computer parts company in NJ, and they sell computer parts at very aggressive margin all over the country via their website and are market leader without even having a store front like bestbuy/microcenter etc. Most their business actually is from outside of NJ as local don't want to pay sales tax and shop at vendors who are in other states to avoid it. 

 

Why can't a LGS in NJ build an online business model and shift volume like buds and other big guys? NJ has far better technology talent to support the technical infrastructure required to sustain such online operations.

 

I'm not criticizing, i'm trying to understand what your limitations are legally? I have a business and technology background and i look at buds, PSA etc and vomit at the poor quality online presence and service they have. I would be more than happy to understand it better and even help if you are interested. 

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Most distributors only will ship to nj what's legal in nj. If you go on sites like Zander's and rsr it says right in the page that an item will not ship to nj. That that cuts out the most popular firearm in the country and any pistol that holds 16 rounds or more. Comparing to new egg firearms have more red tape. Also you can't have walking from other states.