Benelli M3 - Possible to Legally Own in NJ?

[checko 180]

Not sure how a) attempted murder can be done with a blank b) no projectile if its a blank.

 

Is it so difficult to accept that killing someone is a big deal EVEN if it is to save your own life? You have to live with this forever, you will question yourself constantly if you could have done something different; it's called being human.

 

I would not have a problem firing on someone who is firing on me, or someone who is charging me even though he clearly sees a weapon in my hands, or someone who is armed and on my property (warning him would not be wise), I get all these things. My only point was, if there is a safer alternative, I'd prefer to take it. Coking a shotgun will discourage ANY unarmed robber, and I highly doubt robbers call the police to let them know I cocked a shotgun and scared them after they broke into my home.

I can't see how loading a blank in your shotgun is "safer". If I'm picking up the bitch its to stop something. Not to ask it permission to stop. Firing off a blank or racking it to eject a blank when you NEED it is dangerous and reckless.

[High Exposure 5,664]

Not sure how a) attempted murder can be done with a blank b) no projectile if its a blank.

 

Is it so difficult to accept that killing someone is a big deal EVEN if it is to save your own life? You have to live with this forever, you will question yourself constantly if you could have done something different; it's called being human.

 

I would not have a problem firing on someone who is firing on me, or someone who is charging me even though he clearly sees a weapon in my hands, or someone who is armed and on my property (warning him would not be wise), I get all these things. My only point was, if there is a safer alternative, I'd prefer to take it. Coking a shotgun will discourage ANY unarmed robber, and I highly doubt robbers call the police to let them know I cocked a shotgun and scared them after they broke into my home.

Brother, you are confusing a combat/survival mindset with wanting to kill. They are two different things. You really need to take SD/HD class from a reputable instructor (look for a Mossad Ayoob class, I am not a huge fan of his tactics but his HD/SD class is outstanding for the use of force lecture he gives). You have many misconceptions about the use of force, the use of a firearm for self defense, and how quickly violence occurs in the real world. It ain't the movies or TV - you don't have time to cock a hammer/shotgun, fire a warning shot, or talk someone down. There are I one liners or witty comebacks. You can't predict it, you can't avoid it, and you can't reschedule it. When it's on, it's on, and it isn't up to you.

 

No one here wants to kill anyone. It is a horrible thing with serious legal, monetary, and psychological ramifications. But you yourself stayed the reason why someone would do it - you get to live - even if it's with guilt.

 

If you didn't feel your life was in danger, you shouldn't be using lethal force - and anything that comes out of a gun (including bean bags) is lethal force in this state. If your life is in danger only you can change that - it is a decision you have to make. You didn't ask for it, you didn't go looking for it, but violence found you. Now it's up to you to stop it. If you want to take the chance that the bad guy grows a conscious, finds Jesus, or gives up his life of crime in the next .5 seconds, that's your gamble. It's only the rest your life that you are betting, and maybe your family's too...

 

If I stick my hands in my pocket and rob a bank telling them I have a gun, it is still armed robbery. If you point a gun - even unloaded - at someone it is aggravated assault, a terroristic threat, and a slew of other charges. If you pull the trigger, even on a blank you are in the jackpot. Doesn't matter if you understand it not.

 

Finally, I can guarantee you the cocking of a shotgun has zero advantages when attempting to intimidate an intruder in your home. Criminals aren't like you. They aren't scared easily. Many of them have had guns pointed at them many times, most likely by harder men than you.

 

Loudly racking a shotgun also give up many of your advantages: you have revealed your position, your weapon, and your mindset - all to no advantage.

 

If you use a firarm for HD and you don't make that thing ready the second you grab it you are wrong. You don't know where the bad guy is. You don't know when you will confront him. You don't know what he wants, who he's with, or what he has. You need to be ready to shoot* the instant you come in contact with him because you may not get another chance. This is not saying that you have to shoot, just because the gun is loaded doesn't mean you have to pull the trigger. If you have a position of advantage and you think you can give a warning safely, by all means do it. But you better be ready to defend yourself in case he thinks you are a joke.

 

*Note: Being ready to do something isn't doing it. I have pointed guns at plenty of bad guys. I have never shot anyone - but my gun was always loaded and I was always ready to do it if I needed to.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

has anyone linked this guy to the statutes?

[Llama 0]

has anyone linked this guy to the statutes?

 

Would love that

[Barms 98]

Twat Llama.

 

It appears you are inquisitive but at the same time have formulated your own solid opinions. Great advice has been given to you vey nicely in the span of about two days your extremely specific questions have been answered it would take several months to figur those out. Yet you are like in denial when high exposure tells you the exact laws.

 

I saying you should chill out and just read the board for weeks or months. The guidance on here is incredible an you just might "change" some of your thouhts (example " i'd like to own a shotgun for primary purpose of racking the slide as my defense)

 

Just keep reading and soak it all in and you'll feel better about everything ranging from laws to pistols to home defense etc etc. Just be a student not a antagonist.

 

This is the gun forums. Not the Taser forums. If you ask about self defense you are going to get kill or be killed answers. If you got into guns for Sprorting and not for home defense then stick to the sporting questions.

 

But maybe. Just maybe you got into guns because a friend let you shoot his. So you went online to do some research. You never thought you'd consider self defense but you read some great info here, and now you do have an HD weapon. You never thought you'd get an AR but you read about them here for a year and now you have one.

 

Just let it grow over time. That's how it goes for most people here

[Llama 0]

Barms,

 

My intent was never to antagonize. It was to ask questions, which is exactly what I did and what I am doing.

 

I came in here with full knowledge that this would be a heavily pro-gun forum. If I was anit-gun, I wouldn't be here.

 

If the primary purpose in your mind for a gun is to end a life, that is not leak-proof concept. It's an opinion. I intend to lurk here for a while, but if I have a question I'm going to ask it.

 

I never intended on going into ethics, but the stronger the arguments against me, the more I learn. No one has yet to say anything completely unintelligent. I've been enjoying the discourse to be honest.

[High Exposure 5,664]

TL, I have not found your position to be antagonistic in the least.

 

I do find it a bit naive (this is not meant as an attack or schoolyard name calling) and I have found that it is an opinion shared by many folks who I have met that are either unfamiliar with violence or have never been a victim themselves.

 

You are looking at this all wrong: The primary purpose to have a firearm for self defense is not to end a life. It is to save a life - Yours.

 

Whether you use a firearm and the perp lives, dies, or is permanently injured is not really a concern at the time I am fighting for my life. The immediate goal in a deadly force encounter is to make them stop doing whatever it is they are doing that is making me fear for my life (or the lives of my loved ones). I will do this as fast as possible and in no uncertain terms. It may take no shots, it may take 1, or it may take a dozen. I will assess the threat to me and mine, I will process the threat accordingly, evaluate my intervention, and follow up with whatever needs to be done.

 

I will not rely on posturing, intimidating, or threatening because that will not stop a determined attacker.

 

The decision for a bad guy to threaten me or my family is a decision they made. I didn't do to their home and threaten them, I didn't go out looking to make anyone a victim. But once they do, whatever happens next, that is on them.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

Would love that

ask and ye shall receive.

 

http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/2c-the-new-jersey-code-of-criminal-justice/3-4.html

 

2C:3-4. Use of force in self-protection.

 

     2C:3-4. Use of Force in Self-Protection. a. Use of force justifiable for protection of the person. Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 2C:3-9, the use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor reasonably believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by such other person on the present occasion.

 

     b.     Limitations on justifying necessity for use of force.

 

     (1)     The use of force is not justifiable under this section:

 

     (a)     To resist an arrest which the actor knows is being made by a peace officer in the performance of his duties, although the arrest is unlawful, unless the peace officer employs unlawful force to effect such arrest; or

 

     (b)     To resist force used by the occupier or possessor of property or by another person on his behalf, where the actor knows that the person using the force is doing so under a claim of right to protect the property, except that this limitation shall not apply if:

 

     (i)     The actor is a public officer acting in the performance of his duties or a person lawfully assisting him therein or a person making or assisting in a lawful arrest;

 

     (ii)     The actor has been unlawfully dispossessed of the property and is making a reentry or recaption justified by section 2C:3-6; or

 

     (iii) The actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily harm.

 

     (2)     The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily harm; nor is it justifiable if:

 

     (a)     The actor, with the purpose of causing death or serious bodily harm, provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter; or

 

     (b)     The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:

 

     (i)     The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling, unless he was the initial aggressor; and

 

     (ii)     A public officer justified in using force in the performance of his duties or a person justified in using force in his assistance or a person justified in using force in making an arrest or preventing an escape is not obliged to desist from efforts to perform such duty, effect such arrest or prevent such escape because of resistance or threatened resistance by or on behalf of the person against whom such action is directed.

 

     (3)     Except as required by paragraphs (1) and (2) of this subsection, a person employing protective force may estimate the necessity of using force when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do or abstaining from any lawful action.

 

     c. (1) Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:3-5, N.J.S.2C:3-9, or this section, the use of force or deadly force upon or toward an intruder who is unlawfully in a dwelling is justifiable when the actor reasonably believes that the force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself or other persons in the dwelling against the use of unlawful force by the intruder on the present occasion.

 

     (2)     A reasonable belief exists when the actor, to protect himself or a third person, was in his own dwelling at the time of the offense or was privileged to be thereon and the encounter between the actor and intruder was sudden and unexpected, compelling the actor to act instantly and:

 

     (a)     The actor reasonably believed that the intruder would inflict personal injury upon the actor or others in the dwelling; or

 

     (b)     The actor demanded that the intruder disarm, surrender or withdraw, and the intruder refused to do so.

 

     (3)     An actor employing protective force may estimate the necessity of using force when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, withdrawing or doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do or abstaining from any lawful action.

 

      L.1978, c.95; amended 1987, c.120, s.1; 1999, c.73.

[High Exposure 5,664]

Pay attention to the ANDs and ORs here. As always, the devil is in the details.

[vladtepes 1,060]

oh.. this is for home defense.. you are not even looking at the right gun... you need an AR15..  I am not even going to get into the whole other nonsense in this thread... there are two situations..

 

1) you genuinely feel your life is in danger

solution.. shoot to stop

 

2) you do not genuinely feel your life in in danger

solution.. don't shoot

 

it is no more complex than that... you are possibly dealing with people that are unstable.. on drugs.. you have absolutely NO idea how they will react... there are COUNTLESS examples of criminals rushing people that are drawn down on them.. the amount of distance one can cover in fractions of a second is mind numbing.. 21ft rule...

[High Exposure 5,664]

Vlad, While you know that I agree an AR > shotgun > handgun for HD/SD, I think addressing the software issue is more important than the hardware one at this stage.

 

TL,

 

Vlad broke it down quite well, as have others in this thread. Like I said earlier, only you can make your own decision on how important it is to protect yourself and your loved ones, and at what cost to yourself you are willing to pay to stay alive and as whole as possible. I'll tell you this, those with a strong survival mindset and an understanding of what it takes to shoot at another human being prior to a deadly force encounter have less instances of PTSD or other traumatic after effects.

 

I really think your best option is to find a reputable instructor and have yourself some training - not just tactical but strategic. Shit, I'll sit down with you with a cup of coffee and talk if you want.

 

In the meantime, look at MSGT (Ret) Paul Howe's video on Combat Mindset from Panteo as a start:

and read On Combat and On Killing by Lt Col Grossman.

 

Hey, at least you aren't as backwards as some others that post here and advocate using a .45 in one hand and a knife in the other, because that was the way they did it in the trenches in WWI...

[High Exposure 5,664]

This was posted in another thread, but I think it is well placed here as well. Personally it is heartbreaking, and as I watch this video I see many things this Officer did wrong. That is not to say I blame him, or look down on him in any way, it is just the way we learn - an abject lesson in what not to do. The part that hits closest to home is this, I have caught myself doing the very same things be does at work. I have just been lucky that no one has wanted to kill me yet.

 

Anyway, here is an example how fast violence happens:

Think you would have enough time to rack a shotgun to intimidate, thumb a hammer for dramatic effect, give a warning shot in the interest of avoiding later guilt?

[vladtepes 1,060]

 I think addressing the software issue is more important than the hardware one at this stage.

 

point made..

[n4p226r 105]

Not sure how a) attempted murder can be done with a blank b) no projectile if its a blank.

 

Is it so difficult to accept that killing someone is a big deal EVEN if it is to save your own life? You have to live with this forever, you will question yourself constantly if you could have done something different; it's called being human.

 

I would not have a problem firing on someone who is firing on me, or someone who is charging me even though he clearly sees a weapon in my hands, or someone who is armed and on my property (warning him would not be wise), I get all these things. My only point was, if there is a safer alternative, I'd prefer to take it. Coking a shotgun will discourage ANY unarmed robber, and I highly doubt robbers call the police to let them know I cocked a shotgun and scared them after they broke into my home.

 

 

i don't think killing someone to save my life is a big deal.  I'm not saying i won't lose sleep over it.  but i don't think there is any ethical dilemma to contemplate.  the safest alternative is to give YOURSELF the upper hand.  unloaded guns without a round in the chamber, blanks, birdshot, bean bags all put YOU at a tactical disadvantage. 

[n4p226r 105]

oh.. this is for home defense.. you are not even looking at the right gun... you need an AR15..  I am not even going to get into the whole other nonsense in this thread... there are two situations..

 

1) you genuinely feel your life is in danger

solution.. shoot to stop

 

2) you do not genuinely feel your life in in danger

solution.. don't shoot

 

it is no more complex than that... you are possibly dealing with people that are unstable.. on drugs.. you have absolutely NO idea how they will react... there are COUNTLESS examples of criminals rushing people that are drawn down on them.. the amount of distance one can cover in fractions of a second is mind numbing.. 21ft rule...

 

 

its amazing how accurate i find this statement to be,  that it really is a binary thing.  the problem with it being a binary thing though, is it can switch from a 0 to a 1 in an instant

[1LtCAP 4,264]

Pay attention to the ANDs and ORs here. As always, the devil is in the details.

i keep re-reading that. it always makes my head hurt.

[Barms 98]

I'm sorry I chose the word ANTAGONIST. I didn't mean it in a harsh way. I meant it more in a "naive" way as discussed above. It was more my poor choice of word you were getting like million dollar advice and yet it appeared to me it was falling on dead ears.

 

I think I was a lot like you when I started here. Give it a couple of months and you will change a lot of views about a lot of things and most importantly you will then feel more of a "I will not be a victim" type of person. And it feels pretty fucking good.

 

And you will learn about HD and precision sport shooting and clay shooting and rifles and prepping for power outages and life in general

 

Welcome aboard

[DeerSlayer 241]

Would love that

Read all the statutes, including everything on the state police website on firearms laws. Some are difficult to understand and that's what some of us here can help explain to you. (We're not all lawyers) (although there are a couple on here) but many of us have a decent understanding of the statutes. Second buy Evan Nappen's "NJ Gun laws" orange book, some here may refer to it as the orange bible. Knowing the laws are really the first steps in firearm ownership (especially in NJ!). Sign up for and attend a Nappen seminar if possible.

 

The next step after you know the rules is learning what you need, there are many choices some of us have different needs so we buy different guns to suit those needs. I personally want one of everything or two, three, ten ect (I'm addicted to buying and building guns).

 

Then comes how to use it properly (training) all of these things are extremely important none should be taken lightly ever especially safety for obvious reasons. Get yourself some basic training and work your way up the ladder until your satisfied with your abilitys.

 

I've been a gun owner for a very long time, since joining this forum I've learned things in the past year and a half I never knew, and never thought of. From guys here with way more knowledge than me. I once thought like you did about home defense with birdshot, I asked about it here and pretty much got the same answers you received in this thread. Then I really starting researching and found out I was an idiot. When you look at what bird shot does ballisticly you will get it. Shooting a person with it will probably just mame them not at all what you want for defense. It's a lot like hunting deer in a way the idea is ethical kills, minimal suffering for the animal. Although we're talking about taking a human life (big difference), if you have to do so make it quick, that's where the similarities lie. If someone were to take you out you would want it as fast as possible too.

 

The idea of using a firearm for defense is to STOP the threat quickly and as efficiently as possible, and continue to shoot until threat has ceased. There's no shoot to wound, no shoot to warn. All things I thought different about until I began training as well. A person can cover 15' in less than 1 second. You need over 20' to draw and fire within less than a second. Without a firearm in condition zero and in hand, almost impossible to neutralize the threat before your accosted. No time for the second round sometimes. First round, the first time, everytime, that's how you have to think about this responsibility of defending yourself and family.

 

I apologize for giving you a hard time earlier in the thread. hope you stick around, and continue to gain knowledge here. It's a great group of guys here that can guide you properly if you keep an open mind.

 

[vladtepes 1,060]

Read all the statutes, including everything on the state police website on firearms laws. Some are difficult to understand and that's what some of us here can help explain to you. (We're not all lawyers) (although there are a couple on here) but many of us have a decent understanding of the statutes. Second buy Evan Nappen's "NJ Gun laws" orange book, some here may refer to it as the orange bible. Knowing the laws are really the first steps in firearm ownership (especially in NJ!). Sign up for and attend a Nappen seminar if possible. The next step after you know the rules is learning what you need, there are many choices some of us have different needs so we buy different guns to suit those needs. I personally want one of everything or two, three, ten ect (I'm addicted to buying and building guns). Then comes how to use it properly (training) all of these things are extremely important none should be taken lightly ever especially safety for obvious reasons. Get yourself some basic training and work your way up the ladder until your satisfied with your abilitys. I've been a gun owner for a very long time, since joining this forum I've learned things in the past year and a half I never knew, and never thought of. From guys here with way more knowledge than me. I once thought like you did about home defense with birdshot, I asked about it here and pretty much got the same answers you received in this thread. Then I really starting researching and found out I was an idiot. When you look at what bird shot does ballisticly you will get it. Shooting a person with it will probably just mame them not at all what you want for defense. It's a lot like hunting deer in a way the idea is ethical kills, minimal suffering for the animal. Although we're talking about taking a human life (big difference), if you have to do so make it quick, that's where the similarities lie. If someone were to take you out you would want it as fast as possible too. The idea of using a firearm for defense is to STOP the threat quickly and as efficiently as possible, and continue to shoot until threat has ceased. There's no shoot to wound, no shoot to warn. All things I thought different about until I began training as well. A person can cover 15' in less than 1 second. You need over 20' to draw and fire within less than a second. Without a firearm in condition zero and in hand, almost impossible to neutralize the threat before your accosted. No time for the second round sometimes. First round, the first time, everytime, that's how you have to think about this responsibility of defending yourself and family. I apologize for giving you a hard time earlier in the thread. hope you stick around, and continue to gain knowledge here. It's a great group of guys here that can guide you properly if you keep an open mind.

 

 

 

using a weapon system that has minimal recoil.. and the increased stability of a carbine... increases your chance of being able to put multiple shots on target in a short period of time..

[DeerSlayer 241]

using a weapon system that has minimal recoil.. and the increased stability of a carbine... increases your chance of being able to put multiple shots on target in a short period of time..

Exactly the reason there's an AR with the shortest barrel and brake combination I can legally own right under the bed.

[bhunted 887]

Beings this thread is slightly off topic, I got hypothetical questions for yaz. (I know the answers, but want to see your responses).... Using any weapon in your home for defensive purposes. Has anyone considered, the 'when and where' you'll be using your HD weapon? Now where, is almost obvious. It will vary by room. The 'when' is more of the question. And have you trained in the various locations. Here are a few to consider. I use these examples because we ARE all different.. Scenarios will also vary depending on type of your home. For example, a Ranch, a Colonial, location of bedrooms, locations of staged weapons. There is also the bloody hand not being able to open a bio safe or any combo vs staged guns. But let's answer that one seperately.

 

Ok, so give me your scenario:___________________________.

 

Mods, if you feel we can have a decent thread on this and you can move this one post to a separate thread, please do so.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[vladtepes 1,060]

Beings this thread is slightly off topic, I got hypothetical questions for yaz. (I know the answers, but want to see your responses).... Using any weapon in your home for defensive purposes. Has anyone considered, the 'when and where' you'll be using your HD weapon? Now where, is almost obvious. It will vary by room. The 'when' is more of the question. And have you trained in the various locations. Here are a few to consider. I use these examples because we ARE all different.. Scenarios will also vary depending on type of your home. For example, a Ranch, a Colonial, location of bedrooms, locations of staged weapons. There is also the bloody hand not being able to open a bio safe or any combo vs staged guns. But let's answer that one seperately.

 

Ok, so give me your scenario:___________________________.

 

Mods, if you feel we can have a decent thread on this and you can move this one post to a separate thread, please do so.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

 

I have shot in the dark.. I have shot in small confined spaces that mimic the interior of a home.. and I have shot without ear protection (just to see how bad it would be).. that is really the best I can do without an actual enclosed shoot house..

[bhunted 887]

You don't have to shoot. I want you to use your own house. You can use snap caps if you desire. Or don't use any type of ammo. Just your weapon of choice.

 

Quick Note: I do not carry in my home. Most of the time I'm in gym shorts and a TShirt.

 

Scenario 1) Ok, here is what I mean. I take naps on my living room couch. Where would my mind be, where is my weapon staged compared to my couch? What condition am I in when I wake up? Is my head in a fog? Can I get to my gun without tripping over the ottoman if I'm not fully awake? How much time did it take to get my weapon ready and draw down or investigate?

 

Scenario 2) I'm older than most. I have to take meds before I go to bed that depending what time I'm arisen due to noise, dog barking or whatever, I'm a little dopey/dozey... Can I get to a weapon ready status? Can I get out of bed without shooting my foot? My 2nd flr bedroom is tight as I'm not a bedroom person. I sleep and whatever and I leave it when I'm done. This means I have no room to swing ready a shotgun or AR... Hence, my 1st line of defense is a 45, then if I can make it to my closet, the AR is ready. Is the threat already on the 2nd flr? Did he only make it half way up the stairs, etc...

 

There are 2 for you to configure to your situation. This is how I train in my own home. Sometimes they are just dry runs, others might be with a laser system.

 

Reason why I bring all this up is because I can almost bet that hardly anyone takes these things into consideration. This is why I question people about HD and what weapon they will use. There is always the best weapon, but it may not work for everyone. Hence, I try not advise people what I think is best. It may not be for them.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Barms 98]

Twat llama. Find out what the price of Nappen book is new and I will sell you my 3 year old book half price

[DeerSlayer 241]

My second floor is accessible only by a set of metal spiral stairs. Pretty difficult to sneak up them. And it's a painful fall back down with a size 9 to the face at the top.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

Beings this thread is slightly off topic, I got hypothetical questions for yaz. (I know the answers, but want to see your responses).... Using any weapon in your home for defensive purposes. Has anyone considered, the 'when and where' you'll be using your HD weapon? Now where, is almost obvious. It will vary by room. The 'when' is more of the question. And have you trained in the various locations. Here are a few to consider. I use these examples because we ARE all different.. Scenarios will also vary depending on type of your home. For example, a Ranch, a Colonial, location of bedrooms, locations of staged weapons. There is also the bloody hand not being able to open a bio safe or any combo vs staged guns. But let's answer that one seperately.

 

Ok, so give me your scenario:___________________________.

 

Mods, if you feel we can have a decent thread on this and you can move this one post to a separate thread, please do so.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

this should be a seperate thread. i mean that in a good way.

 

only one way in/out of my house that they could get to the living areas....that's the front door. thus, i keep a shottie loaded in my bedroom, along with my sig loaded with critical defense.

 i've shot in the dark, but never thought to actually practice dryfiring around my home. it's tiny in here. very tiny.

[boo 6]

I've wondered about Bhunted's question myself many times. I've done dry runs going through the house with a drawn weapon at night to simulate investigating suspicious noises, but I don't know what is I should be practicing. For example, I don't know the proper way to navigate stairways, go around corners and clear rooms. I've been thinking of reaching out to RTSP to see if I'm can arrange for a lesson on building clearing using their shoot house. 

[bhunted 887]

I continued this in a separate thread and apologize to the OP.

Here is the link: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/74674-personal-home-defense-scenarios-exercises/?p=944365

[n4p226r 105]

My second floor is accessible only by a set of metal spiral stairs. Pretty difficult to sneak up them. And it's a painful fall back down with a size 9 to the face at the top.

Size 9? That's like a kids shoe size right?

[DeerSlayer 241]

Size 9? That's like a kids shoe size right?

Nope its a normal man size 9-10 either way I can assure it wouldn't feel like a kid kicking someone in the face lol.

 

But first you have to get past the ice covered front and rear steps, basement stairs covered in tar and roofing nails, iron in the laundry shoot disguised as a light pull cord, sharp glass Christmas ornaments inside the ground level window, grill starter on the front door knob, blow torch set to head level, silicone plastic wrap, with fan and feathers, micro machine collection at the bottom of the steps, paint cans from the balcony, trip wire at the top, and a tranchula for your face... that's what happens when I'm left home alone...