My first gun

[ronoverdrive 0]

So as of yesterday I've successfully applied for my FID and one hand gun permit. After handling a few handguns at a friend's store I'm pretty much sold on the Springfield Arms XD in .40 cal. Unfortunately the price on the XD is got me in a jam ($500 new) so I asked my friend to keep an eye out for a used XD that may come in. My max budget is $500 and I kinda want to be able to buy an additional clip or two and at least my first box of ammo for it. Unfortunately due how good these guns are I fear by the time I get my permit in a used XD won't come my way or a good deal would have come and gone. Since I didn't like the feel of some of the cheaper handguns I started looking at some carbines. The two I'm looking at are the Hi-Point 4095 and the .40 cal Glock version of the Kel Tec Sub2000. From what I've seen they're both accurate, reliable, cheap, and have lifetime warranties which for a first time buyer I believe are all very appealing qualities. My reasoning for choosing .40 cal is because the ballistics appear better then the 9mm and it seems no where I look has any 9mm ammo in stock due to the military calling first dibs. Also my reasoning for owning a gun is range shooting and home defense if that helps anyone.

 

So... which should I get once my FID comes in assuming I can't get a XD? The Hi-Point 4095 or the Keltec Sub2000? Both guns have what i'm looking for, I'm just wondering what everyone's opinions are on them.

[bbk 188]

I don't have much of an opinion with the Hi point or Kel Tec as I'm not familiar with either, though I know there have been discussions here on them... so, somebody will be able to fill you in more. However, I do own a SA XD in .40SW (the Sub Compact model). Mine too was priced right at $500, and after NICs and taxes (as well as a pistol cleaning kit, and two boxes of Federal ammo), it was right around $600. I know your budget is $500, but honestly I think it'd be worth it to save up a bit more if you can. The XD has been nothing but good to me, and SA throws in a bunch of extras (extra mag, mag loader, holster, mag holders)-- and though I haven't had to contact SA about anything, I've heard their customer support is top of the line. So, I say invest a bit more and go for the XD if that's the avenue you wish to take.

 

Edited to add that my XD was my first gun too!

[coldsolderjoint 84]

+1 on the XD, I have a 9mm 4" and I love the thing. Never had one bit of problem with it. It was my first gun. The only thing I did was put some paint on the sights. Look on XDTalk.com and gunbroker. Sometimes you can get a decent deal. Springfield seems to honor their lifetime warranty even if you are not the original owner, as long as its obvious you didn't abuse it. No guarantees about that, but its the consensus.

 

Sub-2000's are a bit hard to come by, and if you do find one, you have to look at the magazine for which it is configured. I had a Sub2k with the Glock 19 hand grip and the thing was a jam-o-matic. I sent it back to the factory, and they had horrible customer service. It took a long long time for it to come back and still be broken. They refused to pay for shipping back to them, so I finally gave up and traded it. That's my two sense.. a lot of people on the internet have had great experiances with Kel-tec, so take it for what it's worth.

 

So I vote for the Hi-Point if those are your only two options.

[Maksim 1,504]

congrats on getting your butt to getting an FID and permits...

 

I dont speak for everyone, but many will agree, go apply for more than 1 pistol permit. at $2 a pop, its cheap insurance.... and they are good for 6 months with extension.

 

secondly, a carbine will not replace a pistol. if you want an xd, get an xd... dont be afraid to pick up a pre-owned firearm, you will get many good deals come across here, or one of our vendors. secondly, dont be afraid to look at a few prices, go to njgunforums.com and do the firearms quote request to see what you can get them for from our vendors.

 

before buying something, shoot it. dont make that mistake of buying something, esp your first firearm because it looks cool, or felt good in the hand. unless you shot it, you dont know what feels good. =P, esp in a 40 cal....

 

which leads me to next suggestion... why 40 cal? yes, balistics are better than a 9mm, but have you ever shot a 40? it has a distinctive snappy pop, that turns off many people, including myself. I will have 3 9mm handguns, and then 45, had many opportunities to purchase 40's, but havent. In fact, there is only 1 40 cal I like.... and that is tbtrout's xd with a trigger job.

 

Personally, I would suggest a 22lr and a 9mm. XD's are great because they come with extra mags. my 45gap came with 3 mags, for example.

 

where are you located? come out next tuesday to brick armory, there will be a good turnout, and you are more than welcome to try lots of different firearms, both carbines, handguns, rifles, in various calibers.

 

My suggestion would be a good cz75/85 or a used XD. you will be able to buy a carbine alot quicker and easier than a handgun.

[bbk 188]

+1 to Maksim for hitting on every point. Even after I got my FID and PP, I spent every week up until there was a week or two left on the validity of my PP out at the range, test firing everything I was considering (yes, it was expensive, haha). For example, I actually liked how the Glock felt in my hand, but wasn't a big fan of it once I started putting rounds through it.

Also, I ended up getting my XD first because I had the paperwork, and I knew that if I let that PP go to waste, it'd be a terrible pain to get my hands on another one. Though I wanted a rifle myself first, I deferred to my second choice (a close second at that).

And yes, use the firearms quote resource. I finally had the opportunity to use it, and the vendors on the forum were very prompt in contacting me-- fantastic resource here.

Best of luck.

[ronoverdrive 0]

congrats on getting your butt to getting an FID and permits...

 

I dont speak for everyone, but many will agree, go apply for more than 1 pistol permit. at $2 a pop, its cheap insurance.... and they are good for 6 months with extension.

 

Thanks though I don't understand the idea of getting multiple permits if I don't intend to buy more then one handgun. I really don't have the money to go out and buy 2 or 3 handguns in a 6 month span.

 

secondly, a carbine will not replace a pistol. if you want an xd, get an xd... dont be afraid to pick up a pre-owned firearm, you will get many good deals come across here, or one of our vendors. secondly, dont be afraid to look at a few prices, go to njgunforums.com and do the firearms quote request to see what you can get them for from our vendors.

 

I'm not looking to replace a handgun to be honest. Handguns are fun, but I'm also comfortable and more accurate with a rifle so to me a carbine would still be a good choice. As for pre-owned I wouldn't mind having one assuming it was taken care of.

 

before buying something, shoot it. dont make that mistake of buying something, esp your first firearm because it looks cool, or felt good in the hand. unless you shot it, you dont know what feels good. =P, esp in a 40 cal....

 

which leads me to next suggestion... why 40 cal? yes, balistics are better than a 9mm, but have you ever shot a 40? it has a distinctive snappy pop, that turns off many people, including myself. I will have 3 9mm handguns, and then 45, had many opportunities to purchase 40's, but havent. In fact, there is only 1 40 cal I like.... and that is tbtrout's xd with a trigger job.

 

I've fired both 9mm and .45cal. The 9mm felt a little weak, but at least it was very accurate. The .45 has too much kick for my tastes and throws off my aim quite a bit. I feel .40cal would be a nice middle ground and it seems like .40cal is also easier to come by then 9mm and .45 at the moment as pretty much every gun store me and my friends visited two weeks ago didn't have much or any in stock in 9mm and .45.

 

where are you located? come out next tuesday to brick armory, there will be a good turnout, and you are more than welcome to try lots of different firearms, both carbines, handguns, rifles, in various calibers.

 

I'm located in Woodbridge.

[djg0770 481]

Paul at Arms n Ammo has a Glock model 22 (40 cal) for like $380 that even though I'm an XD guy I would take over either the Keltec or the HiPoint

[Maksim 1,504]

ronover,

 

I completely understand that you dont plan on getting more than one handgun, but here is the scenario...

 

you go out and buy one... you dont like it, and want to sell it. you sell it, and want to buy something else.... need a permit.

 

You put your handgun on consignment, and then want it back.... you need a permit.

 

$2, even if you dont plan on using it, 6 months down the road is cheap insurance to have.

 

 

As far as handguns, did you shoot the 40 yet? There are some 40's that have a higher kick than a 45, including many steel frame handguns.

 

the kick out of a polymer 40 will be greater than that of a steel or full size 45. mostly, you just have to go out and shoot. personally, i like 357sig over 40. =P even better balistics...

 

but lets put it this way... no matter if bad guy getting shot with 40, or 9mm, they are going to have a bad day anyway.

[matt6669 71]

I am not a gun guru by any means but I will give you my first hand experience.

 

My first pistol I bought is a Sub Compact Kahr k40 which is obviously a .40S&W.

I bought it because I got a KILLER deal at 250 for it used with 3 clips to boot.

 

The Kahrs are pretty much an identical gun to a glock for the most part.

Now here are my impressions

The .40cal is gonna kick you. Even if you get a full size .40, its STILL going to kick. With a sub compact it kicks like a mother. I was just at the range with Malsua who was standing to the left of me. His response was.

" I can feel like a shock wave come and wash over my face every time you fire that thing."

.40's definitely have a lot of buck to them but that comes with the territory.

Another thing is, yes you can find ammo for it, but boy is it expensive compared to a 9mm bullet or something smaller.

The cheapest ammo I can find is Blazer Brass which is a reloadable brass at 50 for 24.00 bucks. Compare that to a 9mm bullet and you'll see a big difference.

 

Now my buddy has both a fullsize and a subcompact glock's in 9mm. I will tell you right off the bat. My accuracy was atleast 50% better than my shooting with my .40cal. Surprisingly my aim between the 9mm fullsize and sub did not change very much. But my aim from my sub .40 to his 9mm's change a lot.

 

If all your planning on using it for is going to the range and home defense. A 9mm is going to have plenty of stopping power for what you want to do. So don't let a ballastics chart tell you to shoot something bigger when in reality you have no need to.

 

If I had to do it all over again, I would of waited to find a used sub compact in 9mm instead of buying the .40. The 9mm is cheaper to shoot, and I also thing its more beginner friendly as well.

 

Boy was that an essay

 

ohh ps. If you want a gun for home defense, I still swear by a shotgun with 00 buckshot. Nothing is going to scare an intruder more than the click back of a shotgun and no one is going to be moving after getting loaded with 00 buckshot at short range.

[Caine 147]

Realistically, it's going to take a atleast 30 days to get your FID. And then once you get it, you still have 90 days to use your purchase permit, and if you want, you can extend that for another 90. You probably aren't going to want to wait 6 months after getting you FID to get a gun, but, truthfully, if you really like the XD, then use the time it's going to take for your FID to come in and however long you can wait after that to try and save a few more bucks.

 

There's a reason XDs and Glocks and S&Ws and Sigs and Berettas and HKs cost more - they're better guns. If I could only buy one gun, I'd make sure to buy a really good one. And, personally, I wouldn't put KelTec or HiPoint in the "really good" category.

 

Just my 2 cents

[tj462nj 32]

I agree with Caine. There is a difference and two of the most accurate guns that I've personally seen right out of the box is the Sig & Beretta.

[Maksim 1,504]

I agree with Caine. There is a difference and two of the most accurate guns that I've personally seen right out of the box is the Sig & Beretta.

 

tony, no love for the cz? although the hk p30 and wolfy's smith 1911 pro series are insanely accurate. but can't argue against sigs or berettas. 92fs is one of the finest handguns I shot, the new wonderplastic berettas I am not tooo fond of.

 

but for the o.p.... the difference between a 600 dollar handgun and a 500 all in whatever... is only 100.

 

take the time and save... or go out for dinner twice less and voila. if 100 really makes a difference, ask yourself about the whole ownership thing. range fees, targets, ammo, gas, cleaning supplies allllll add up. and you have to practice. if you can't afford it, buy a good 22lr handgun and practice. a lot cheaper experience....and most of all.... more trigger time.

[wsl 2]

Yeah, just to echo and add what maksim said, do some research, rent a few to try out, before you buy. You don't want to buy something that you end up hating. Save up and get something decent that you like and are comfortable with. And definitely think about the cost. Its an expensive hobby, and if you're getting something cheap, then you're going to end up like Chad, and have it just collecting dust at home and never shooting it.

 

Don't be a Chad. <-- new njgunforum slogan? lol

[tbtrout 141]

Come to Brick Armory Tuesday night and I will bring an XD 40 and a Kel Tec Sub in 9mm for you to try.

 

The XD is a great gun and I would put in the extra $100, especially since money is tight and you will only be buying one. With that said you may want to consider 9mm for additional savings.

[ronoverdrive 0]

To be honest 9mm was my first choice for the money savings aspect and .40 as my second choice for the ballistics, but my big problem with 9mm at the moment is availability. Last time I visited Cheyanne Mtn they were completely out of 9mm and when I went down to Delaware to visit the range with some friends Walmart had barely any and Dicks was completely sold out. The reason all of them gave us is the military is hogging it all and they had no clue when they were going to get more in. While both my uncle and my friends in Delaware have bullet presses and can recap ammo I can't always depend on them since its not like they live next door. So if someone knows a place I can get 9mm ammo at without worry of shortages let me know.

[Maksim 1,504]

the ammo situation will not be like this always, and somehow... we all end up finding some anyway.

 

I picked up 10 boxes for another member here a few days ago, and thanks to this forum, we have a fairly good idea of what places have ammo, Dicks are getting better with ammo. Cheynne had 9mm last time I was there. there are many other stores that have ammo as well, Effingers, until this week, had plenty of 9mm.

 

there are also gun shows, walmarts and stores in PA, online that you can get ammo.

 

At the moment, Natchezss has 9mm in cci blazer, federal american eagle, magtech, and remington in stock, starting at 13.99.

http://www.natchezss.com/ammo.cfm?conte ... moSize=349

[djg0770 481]

With the current ammo shortage, I have had difficulty finding anything whether it be 22, 9mm, 40 or 45. Frankly, when found, the prices on 9mm have not swayed me to purchase a 9mm. Sure it's a little less expensive than the 40, but not drastically so - at least not right now, and as more and more PD's move from 9 to 40, the 40 will drop in cost.

[Caine 147]

I'm gonna sound like a broken record again, but, don't forget all the online retailers. I can usually find 1000 rounds of 9mm within 10 minutes of cruising the online ammo places. It may not always be the specific brand I'm looking for, and some places won't ship to Jersey, but it's out there if you take the time to look.

[ronoverdrive 0]

I'm gonna sound like a broken record again, but, don't forget all the online retailers. I can usually find 1000 rounds of 9mm within 10 minutes of cruising the online ammo places. It may not always be the specific brand I'm looking for, and some places won't ship to Jersey, but it's out there if you take the time to look.

 

I'm really iffy about purchasing ammo online. Guns not so much because they have to be sent to a local dealer for the transaction to be completed, but stuff like ammo or the stuff for repacking ammo I've always been worried about raising red flags. Also there's what you said about not being able to find the brands you're looking for and/or not being able to ship to NJ. Luckily my friends from PA and DA told me I can have stuff like that shipped to their homes, but quite a few of them I only get to see maybe once a month or so.

[Maksim 1,504]

trust me, many people ship their ammo to their house. Dont be afraid of being a gun owner. =P 12% of nj residents own firearms, and a good number of them has ammo shipped to them. Cabela's is a fine example...

[ronoverdrive 0]

Hmmm... here's a quick question.. reloading ammo. What's the cost difference reloading shells vs buying them off the shelf at your typical 50 round boxes? Reason I ask is because my uncle and my friends down in DA have the ability to reload ammo.

[Maksim 1,504]

shells? already getting a bit off. =P

 

reloading shotgun shells probly not as good of a deal.

 

reloading handgun ammo, does make sense.... for anything but 22lr. only issue is finding primers.... which it seems is getting a little better.

 

Other reason to reload, for more precise ammo.

[ronoverdrive 0]

Sorry I meant reloading bullets. Yeah I'm just wondering what the cost differences are whether its a few bucks a year or a few bucks a box. Like I said I got friends and family who reload bullets and I found something called the Lee Hand Press that might be a good investment since I don't have a work bench.

[tbtrout 141]

There is a significant savings in reloading. You have to factor in the amount you shoot vs the cost of equipment. if you want to do volume shooting a Hand press will not get you there.

[coldsolderjoint 84]

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/trading-po ... tucky.html

 

Here is one for $445, but it would depend on your dealer's transfer fee if you could get it under $500.

[Maksim 1,504]

pretty good deal...

also, buds gun shop had SW M&P's for like $479? only issue is, were 17rnd mags.

[Glock26 0]

agree with alot of what Maksim and the others said.

 

Here is a link to Bud's. M&P's brand new for $439. Ship it to your local ffl on the board here, and you got a great firearm sub 500 with a great warranty.

[theiqcrew 0]

you can find a used XD for around 400 on gun broker if you look around. with shipping and a reasonable transfer fee, you are looking at around 450 for the weapon itself.

 

Also, you and several others may have been misinformed as to the function of various ammunition feeding devices...

CLIPS assist in the quick loading of MAGAZINES

 

MAGAZINES are the devices that feed rounds into a chamber. there are many different types of magazines, like removable ones on AR-15's and handguns, internal ones like on most bolt action rifles, and en-bloc magazines such as the M1 Garand, which retain the CLIP in the magazine until all rounds have been dispensed downrange.

 

{{ rounds --> clip --> magazine --> chamber ------------------------------------>>>> downrange }}

 

Just thought i would clear up some of the confusion

[coldsolderjoint 84]

you can find a used XD for around 400 on gun broker if you look around. with shipping and a reasonable transfer fee, you are looking at around 450 for the weapon itself.

 

Also, you and several others may have been misinformed as to the function of various ammunition feeding devices...

CLIPS assist in the quick loading of MAGAZINES

 

MAGAZINES are the devices that feed rounds into a chamber. there are many different types of magazines, like removable ones on AR-15's and handguns, internal ones like on most bolt action rifles, and en-bloc magazines such as the M1 Garand, which retain the CLIP in the magazine until all rounds have been dispensed downrange.

 

{{ rounds --> clip --> magazine --> chamber ------------------------------------>>>> downrange }}

 

Just thought i would clear up some of the confusion

 

Well you could simplify it a bit more and say that magazines are spring loaded where as clips are not.

[bbk 188]

Heh, we've had the discussion of mags vs clips plenty on the forum. I think it was just a bit of complacency that somebody didn't pounce on it earlier.