Trigger upgrades

[Vdep217 63]

1 hour ago, JohnnyB said:

Some Sig P320 owners might disagree with you! 

That is a malfunction still not proven either way but regardless it is still not an accidental discharge.   The gun was loaded.  That falls under catastrophic malfunction.   Bit I get your intent and I agree if it is deemed the fault of manufacturing.

Different subject but tge guys who refuse to carry a hammer fired semi auto locked n loaded.  A hammer gun is ready to fire with hammer back just like a striker fired is ready to fire.  There is no difference it's all in the mind

[GRIZ 3,369]

Enough of the argument of terms.

100 years ago when I started shooting accidental discharge was used for anytime the gun fired when it wasn't supposed to no matter what the reason.  

Unintentional and Negligent Discharge came along as some thought it more appropriate to describe the event.  Everytime a gun fired when it wasn't supposed to isnt an accident they'd say.  Some instructors like to throw out more terms and pigeonhole events as it seems more impressive. So,

A discharge caused by a malfunction of a firearm can be an AD.  But isn't also a UID?

A discharge caused by clothing snagging the trigger on clothing is a ND. But isn't it also a UID?

One can go on and on with examples.  AFAIC the 3 terms are interchangeable in usage except there needs to negligence for a ND.

I still generally use AD or UID.  That covers most bases. 

 

[JohnnyB 4,326]

32 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Enough of the argument of terms.

100 years ago when I started shooting accidental discharge was used for anytime the gun fired when it wasn't supposed to no matter what the reason.  

Unintentional and Negligent Discharge came along as some thought it more appropriate to describe the event.  Everytime a gun fired when it wasn't supposed to isnt an accident they'd say.  Some instructors like to throw out more terms and pigeonhole events as it seems more impressive. So,

A discharge caused by a malfunction of a firearm can be an AD.  But isn't also a UID?

A discharge caused by clothing snagging the trigger on clothing is a ND. But isn't it also a UID?

One can go on and on with examples.  AFAIC the 3 terms are interchangeable in usage except there needs to negligence for a ND.

I still generally use AD or UID.  That covers most bases. 

 

@GRIZ You are older than me but ain't no way you've been shooting for 100 years! I greatly respect you and admire your great level of experience!  Stop thinking about age in years because I know your brain is at least 25 years younger than your physical age and I just pray that I follow in your footsteps! 

Please continue being my mentor for many years to come! You are a very special and important member of the NJGF family!

[GRIZ 3,369]

4 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

@GRIZ You are older than me but ain't no way you've been shooting for 100 years! I greatly respect you and admire your great level of experience!  Stop thinking about age in years because I know your brain is at least 25 years younger than your physical age and I just pray that I follow in your footsteps! 

Please continue being my mentor for many years to come! You are a very special and important member of the NJGF family!

I'm still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up!!!

[JohnnyB 4,326]

Just now, GRIZ said:

I'm still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up!!!

We will never grow up because as you know, he who dies with the most toys wins! Neither of us have enough toys yet!

[GRIZ 3,369]

9 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

We will never grow up because as you know, he who dies with the most toys wins! Neither of us have enough toys yet!

You know I have almost as many cameras as I have guns.

[JohnnyB 4,326]

33 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

You know I have almost as many cameras as I have guns.

I still have my Canon AE1and a few others.  Also a shit ton of worthless lenses. I don't have the heart to to trash them!  I spent $1,000 for the first digital camera that came out. Been digital ever since!

[GRIZ 3,369]

34 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

I still have my Canon AE1and a few others.  Also a shit ton of worthless lenses. I don't have the heart to to trash them!  I spent $1,000 for the first digital camera that came out. Been digital ever since!

I have Canon, Nikon, Pentax, and Minolta in 35 mm. Mamiya, Omega, and other.medium format.  Graflex view and press cameras.

[ChrisJM981 924]

5 hours ago, GRIZ said:

I have Canon, Nikon, Pentax, and Minolta in 35 mm. Mamiya, Omega, and other.medium format.  Graflex view and press cameras.

Stick to the topic old timers. 

[Gr935 0]

23 hours ago, ChrisJM981 said:

I'm wondering what the consensus is for a pistol that comes stock with a good trigger. 

I’ve always felt a good trigger is subjective.  I have a variety of pistols and I can spend more time and money learning each one which negates a “bad” trigger but I’d rather spend those two resources on my kids.  That’s why I look for a trigger that fits what I already know how to shoot.  
 

The trigger I like the most isn’t necessarily the trigger I shoot the best either.

[diamondd817 827]

On 6/13/2023 at 5:10 PM, Gr935 said:

Has anyone else been advised that upgrading a pistol that is then used in self defense is a bad idea from a legal defense standpoint? 
 

I’ve been advised multiple times of this which doesn’t make any sense.  If true, can someone please explain where it comes from?

Cite one case.

[Gr935 0]

3 hours ago, diamondd817 said:

Cite one case.

I think you might be misunderstanding the original question.  I am not aware of any cases but have been given legal advice that it’s not in my best interest to make any upgrades to my carry pistol.  
 

I am looking for actual cases that someone can provide to better understand where this advice is coming from to weigh the pros and cons, the risks of my decision.  

[124gr9mm 859]

58 minutes ago, Gr935 said:

I think you might be misunderstanding the original question.  I am not aware of any cases but have been given legal advice that it’s not in my best interest to make any upgrades to my carry pistol.  
 

I am looking for actual cases that someone can provide to better understand where this advice is coming from to weigh the pros and cons, the risks of my decision.  

I recommend that you ask the people giving you the advice to cite their sources.

When they can't I think you should recommend that they stop scare-mongering...

[siderman 1,138]

In regards to the perceived danger of using a altered trigger in a self defense shoot, I wouldn't dismiss it these days despite lack of history. Outside of LEO  I think it's a short list in NJ of legal and justifiable SD shoots, much less outside the home considering the former scarcity of ccw's. And how many of those involved a trigger uprade? I guess very very few. I don't know the stats of course, I'll leave that to the endeavors of your AG. But I'm sure if  SD  case comes along and a altered trigger is in the mix NJ will absolutely use that fact to help prosecute.

[raz-0 1,259]

On 6/18/2023 at 8:22 PM, Gr935 said:

I think you might be misunderstanding the original question.  I am not aware of any cases but have been given legal advice that it’s not in my best interest to make any upgrades to my carry pistol.  
 

I am looking for actual cases that someone can provide to better understand where this advice is coming from to weigh the pros and cons, the risks of my decision.  

There are no sources. At the same time, pick any topic and try to get a lawyer to tell you you have no liability or legal risk. They will never give you an affirmative answer. 

Every case I have seen where the status of the trigger was made an issue were civil cases and determining liability. 

 

On 6/19/2023 at 9:32 AM, siderman said:

In regards to the perceived danger of using a altered trigger in a self defense shoot, I wouldn't dismiss it these days despite lack of history. Outside of LEO  I think it's a short list in NJ of legal and justifiable SD shoots, much less outside the home considering the former scarcity of ccw's. And how many of those involved a trigger uprade? I guess very very few. I don't know the stats of course, I'll leave that to the endeavors of your AG. But I'm sure if  SD  case comes along and a altered trigger is in the mix NJ will absolutely use that fact to help prosecute.

There was an incident down south jersey (unfortunately I can't find an article on it, it's been quite a while) of a defensive shoot with a uspsa open gun. It was a justified shooting. There was no talk of triggers. The definitions permitting the use of lethal force make little to no comments on the means, other than it being lethal. 

 

 

[siderman 1,138]

1 hour ago, raz-0 said:

There are no sources. At the same time, pick any topic and try to get a lawyer to tell you you have no liability or legal risk. They will never give you an affirmative answer. 

Every case I have seen where the status of the trigger was made an issue were civil cases and determining liability. 

 

There was an incident down south jersey (unfortunately I can't find an article on it, it's been quite a while) of a defensive shoot with a uspsa open gun. It was a justified shooting. There was no talk of triggers. The definitions permitting the use of lethal force make little to no comments on the means, other than it being lethal. 

 

 

That was then, not this current brave new world of civilian ccw where the state's contempt for such is blatantly hostile. They are drooling at the prospect of manufacturing a ccw scapegoat and given the chance to pile on charges adding to the perception that ccw holders are wild eyed killers they will do so. At least I  think so.

[Stacks73 25]

I want every advantage possible over a criminal that’s threatening my life. I’m not worried about the prosecutor talking about what kind of trigger is in my gun. You wouldn’t be any less justified in shooting a bad guy who had a weapon just because you have a better trigger.