Anyone submit the "additional handguns" form for your carry permit?

[124gr9mm 859]

For anyone who received an early permit with a court order limiting you to the pistol(s) on your permit, has anyone filled out and submitted the new form for 'additional handguns':

https://www.nj.gov/njsp/firearms/pdf/sp-182a_PTC_Additional_Handguns_Intended_to_be_Carried.pdf

I'll wait to see if there are any changes that come from the upcoming court sessions, but I'm planning to hand it in to my PD along with my qual sheet before the October deadline (presuming that doesn't change).

[124gr9mm 859]

Talked to a guy from my local range and he said he mailed one to his PD so I'll follow up if he gets any feedback from them. 

[Golf battery 1,223]

I handed mine into local pd. They checked with state police.  I was told as long i am up to date and following the current laws i can carry whatever i want to add the the form.  Basically put the onus on me

[Golf battery 1,223]

Double post

[Ficus 36]

I submitted it plus the new quals to the court and was told to give it to the local police. 
I went to the police and they told me to give it to the court. The detective finally accepted them and put them in my “file”. So who knows. 

[maintenanceguy 510]

21 hours ago, Golf battery said:

I handed mine into local pd. They checked with state police.  I was told as long i am up to date and following the current laws i can carry whatever i want to add the the form.  Basically put the onus on me

I'm not a lawyer but ...  As I interpret the law, you can carry any handgun that you own - full stop.

I don't see in the law, where I'm required to submit the form. If I missed that line, somebody please correct me.  It says the police have to collect the form.  If the police refuse to accept the form, they're breaking the law.   But I don't see any requirement for the permit holder to submit the form.    Unless I missed it, this part of the new law only instructs the police departments of a new responsibility that they now have to accept a form.

[124gr9mm 859]

1 hour ago, maintenanceguy said:

I'm not a lawyer but ...  As I interpret the law, you can carry any handgun that you own - full stop.

I don't see in the law, where I'm required to submit the form. If I missed that line, somebody please correct me.  It says the police have to collect the form.  If the police refuse to accept the form, they're breaking the law.   But I don't see any requirement for the permit holder to submit the form.    Unless I missed it, this part of the new law only instructs the police departments of a new responsibility that they now have to accept a form.

There are a lot of people (myself included) who received early permits from the court where we were limited to the guns listed on a court order (to be carried with the permit).  This form is the way for us to carry more than what's in the court order (since the courts now refuse to amend the order because ccw is now 'responsibility of the local PD). 

[Golf battery 1,223]

Exactly this the the only approved way for us court ordered folks to legally carry anything other than whats listed on out court order.  Until it expires 

[maintenanceguy 510]

7 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

There are a lot of people (myself included) who received early permits from the court where we were limited to the guns listed on a court order (to be carried with the permit).  This form is the way for us to carry more than what's in the court order (since the courts now refuse to amend the order because ccw is now 'responsibility of the local PD). 

got it.  I didn't realize it really wasn't intended for the rest of us.

[ALAN553 27]

Our chief had us just refile application with him and new picture, no charge and he collected our old permits and court order and reissued permit with no restrictions…if he ever runs for office, he’s got my vote. 

[xXxplosive 824]

what township was that.....may I ask.

[ALAN553 27]

Montville 

[CMJeepster 2,778]

This state is a shit show.

[124gr9mm 859]

Handed the form in today.

I saw the records clerk and told her what I had.  She said, "Oh yes, I'll put it in with your other information.  Thanks."

Took about 30 seconds.

[Vdep217 63]

On 8/18/2023 at 1:28 PM, 124gr9mm said:

There are a lot of people (myself included) who received early permits from the court where we were limited to the guns listed on a court order (to be carried with the permit).  This form is the way for us to carry more than what's in the court order (since the courts now refuse to amend the order because ccw is now 'responsibility of the local PD). 

From my understanding you would need to be issued a new permit. As the court order is a binding legal document I believe only a judge of the sane court can amend.  I could be wrong though

[124gr9mm 859]

5 hours ago, Vdep217 said:

From my understanding you would need to be issued a new permit. As the court order is a binding legal document I believe only a judge of the sane court can amend.  I could be wrong though

Yeah, it's an interesting conundrum.  Court order limits you to pistols on the app AND provides instructions for adding additional guns.  Unfortunately the court refuses to abide by those instructions and states that they're 'out of it' and they refer all permit related issues to local PD.

Local PD will not re-issue permits and require the full process again (including all costs associated) if you want a new one.

The law says one permit covers all guns, and the new form from NJSP is specific to additional handguns for permits, so that's what i delivered to my PD.  My PD accepted it as such.

In the unlikely event that I'm questioned about it I'll let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Vdep217 63]

51 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

Yeah, it's an interesting conundrum.  Court order limits you to pistols on the app AND provides instructions for adding additional guns.  Unfortunately the court refuses to abide by those instructions and states that they're 'out of it' and they refer all permit related issues to local PD.

Local PD will not re-issue permits and require the full process again (including all costs associated) if you want a new one.

The law says one permit covers all guns, and the new form from NJSP is specific to additional handguns for permits, so that's what i delivered to my PD.  My PD accepted it as such.

In the unlikely event that I'm questioned about it I'll let the chips fall where they may.

 

I've been stpped 3 times a disclosed I was carrying not once did they ever ask to see fore arm and only 1 officer asked to see permit

[70gto 142]

I feel the additional gun thing on paper will be a thing when God forbid , you use the firearm in self defense. Maybe not so much a criminal issue but the ambulance chasing lawyer will make it seem like the end of the world to jury, in the civil case that will surely follow. Chances are small but not worth the trouble if you didnt qualify with the additional guns and just wrote it in. This applies to guys that just add the guns in on paper after the fact (qualification).

Example retired LE, we qual 2 times a year.  The carry gun I qual with is written down, on the qual sheet, and there is space to write more in, underneath it. Its tempting to add a few more in, when you leave the range. Just an opinion. The reason this would be a thing is retired LE is allowed to carry and keep15 round mags, in every gun they qualify with.

The smart instructors cross a line through the additional gun part, but some don't.

[124gr9mm 859]

1 hour ago, 70gto said:

I feel the additional gun thing on paper will be a thing when God forbid , you use the firearm in self defense. Maybe not so much a criminal issue but the ambulance chasing lawyer will make it seem like the end of the world to jury, in the civil case that will surely follow. Chances are small but not worth the trouble if you didnt qualify with the additional guns and just wrote it in. This applies to guys that just add the guns in on paper after the fact (qualification).

Example retired LE, we qual 2 times a year.  The carry gun I qual with is written down, on the qual sheet, and there is space to write more in, underneath it. Its tempting to add a few more in, when you leave the range. Just an opinion. The reason this would be a thing is retired LE is allowed to carry and keep15 round mags, in every gun they qualify with.

The smart instructors cross a line through the additional gun part, but some don't.

I think there's zero chance it becomes an issue.  The law and the form for additional guns are explicit that "One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns..."

I appreciate that retired LEO may currently have  a different standard, but for those of us who are not, there's little ambiguity.

 

[maintenanceguy 510]

Vdep217 nailed it in my opinion.

The thing that saves us is that one permit covers all guns you own, except that you have to submit a form listing the guns you own, except the courts limited the guns you can carry, except that the court removed itself from the process that they put in place to add additional guns to the permit.

So many contradictions that I think the state's prosecutors are in a weaker position then if the law was never passed.

[Vdep217 63]

2 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

I think there's zero chance it becomes an issue.  The law and the form for additional guns are explicit that "One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns..."

I appreciate that retired LEO may currently have  a different standard, but for those of us who are not, there's little ambiguity.

 

If you have a court order you are bound by the order

[124gr9mm 859]

3 hours ago, Vdep217 said:

If you have a court order you are bound by the order

Indeed.

When contacting the court (as directed by the order) to add additional guns they have directed me to the local PD.  I expressed concern to the court that they were not allowing me to follow the direction of their order, but they advised that they were 'out of it' and directed me to local PD. 

Local PD directs me to the form.

If the court isn't concerned about it and my POD isn't concerned about it, neither am I.  I'm done walking on eggshells.  I've paid plenty and have followed all of the laws.

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

My court order states I may carry the guns listed. It does not say I can carry ONLY the guns listed. 

It also says that to add guns I only need to write to the court with the details of the new guns and provide proof of qualifying. It does not say the court will amend the CO. The fact that the court has been ordered not to amend my court order is irrelevant. I have completed the steps required by the court order. 

[70gto 142]

Unless something changed retired leo can only carry guns that u qual with. There is a clause like substantially identical.meaning I qual with a glock 19 and also carry a 43

[Vdep217 63]

16 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

My court order states I may carry the guns listed. It does not say I can carry ONLY the guns listed. 

It also says that to add guns I only need to write to the court with the details of the new guns and provide proof of qualifying. It does not say the court will amend the CO. The fact that the court has been ordered not to amend my court order is irrelevant. I have completed the steps required by the court order. 

What box or boxes are checked on your permit

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

On 8/26/2023 at 2:40 PM, Vdep217 said:

What box or boxes are checked on your permit

Restrictions none and see court order

[Vdep217 63]

8 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

Restrictions none and see court order

You are bound by court order technically until that is removed.  I went through court as well but only box checked is none

[ESB 247]

On 8/25/2023 at 10:00 PM, Mr.Stu said:

My court order states I may carry the guns listed. It does not say I can carry ONLY the guns listed. 

It also says that to add guns I only need to write to the court with the details of the new guns and provide proof of qualifying. It does not say the court will amend the CO. The fact that the court has been ordered not to amend my court order is irrelevant. I have completed the steps required by the court order. 

Mine has the guns listed that I qualified with and submitted to the court.  It also says that imay ammend the court order to include additional handguns by submitting quals for them.  

It also says that I must also adhere to any statute or regulations.  

So NJ Staute 2C:58-4a says 

Any person who holds a valid permit to carry a handgun issued pursuant to this section shall be authorized to carry a handgun in a holster concealed on their person in all parts of this State, except as prohibited by subsection e. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 and section 7 of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.6). One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns owned by the holder thereof, but the permit shall apply only to a handgun carried by the actual and legal holder of the permit...

 

So if I am carrying a gun I own but did not submit a qual on, I am still adhering to the statute 2C:58-4a as required by my court order right?