Does Anybody REALLY Know the Law?

[Old School 611]

I just came back from the Jefferson Twp Police Station. I feel sorry for these LEO's as they are only doing what they are told.

 

Well now they only issue one Pistol Purchase Permit at a time.

 

Is this consistant with all towns? It's a financial burden even with the one gun a month thing. $18 for the State Police each time you want one permit.

Then you pay for a NICS on top of that.

 

Tomorrow morning Gary Needleman gets a call. This is crazy!

[djg0770 481]

Tomorrow morning Gary Needleman gets a call.

 

Best thing I've heard all week!!!!

[Redfish62 1]

I was told by the West Deptford PD that the $18.00 would only be every 6 months. That was in December when I apply for 3 permits.

[tony357 386]

my dept only allowed me to apply for one. i did call one of the lwyers on the list for njrpc and he told me he did not know and he would need a retainer to check into it. :roll:

[The_Matrix 105]

The simply answer is "no". Everyone just makes something up to move things along.

[matt6669 71]

my dept only allowed me to apply for one. i did call one of the lwyers on the list for njrpc and he told me he did not know and he would need a retainer to check into it. :roll:

 

Join ANJRPC and its free.

 

M

[Old School 611]

NO need to call the lawyer!

 

I talked to the detective in charge of issuing permits and I am being issued three (3) permits.

[PK90 3,573]

If three is what you asked for, then DONE. If you asked for more and they are denying you that opportunity, LAWYER UP.

[XDJohnTact 49]

My town only charges the $18.00 if it is more than 12 months since your last permit (at leas that is how it has been for the past 4 years). I have not applied for a permit since I have been out of work.

[autoxnyc 4]

My town only charges the $18.00 if it is more than 12 months since your last permit (at leas that is how it has been for the past 4 years). I have not applied for a permit since I have been out of work.

 

First time poster here. I am in W. Orange twp, they used to charge $18 every 6mo and within that period additional permits usually takes very little time(~ few weeks). I was told in Dec 09 the state changed requirement and the $18 fee and the yellow form is needed every time when I apply for the permit.

[Old School 611]

If three is what you asked for, then DONE. If you asked for more and they are denying you that opportunity, LAWYER UP.

 

PK- This detective I've dealt with a few times and is pretty cool. I asked for two and he said "you sure you don't want three?" I said Ok give me three. I did this over the phone so I owe him $4. But since I pay his salary he knows I'm good for it.

[rscalzo 3]

The state hasn't issued any guidelines on it so no one knows what the proper procedure is for this new procedure. The state doesn't issue many bulletins in this area at all. Occasionally they hold a seminar. The last actual set of printed guidelines for use by personnel issuing firearm's related documents was issued in 1994.

 

Other than that, it's verbal. So basically, yes. everyone is making it up as they go along. As laws are shaped by the associated case law, it will be a while. Unless someone wants to pay out sveral thousands to start the ball rolling, it will be confused for some time to come.

[tony357 386]

my dept only allowed me to apply for one. i did call one of the lwyers on the list for njrpc and he told me he did not know and he would need a retainer to check into it. :roll:

 

Join ANJRPC and its free.

 

M

 

not what he said, already a member..

[njpilot 671]

my dept only allowed me to apply for one. i did call one of the lwyers on the list for njrpc and he told me he did not know and he would need a retainer to check into it. :roll:

 

Join ANJRPC and its free.

 

M

 

not what he said, already a member..

 

How is it free? I looked on their site and it said $25 per year, $300 Lifetime

[coldsolderjoint 84]

 

How is it free? I looked on their site and it said $25 per year, $300 Lifetime

 

The ANJRPC pays the lawyer's retainer for the Members.

[njpilot 671]

oh, gotcha. I thought he meant membership was free. :doh:

[KpdPipes 388]

The state hasn't issued any guidelines on it so no one knows what the proper procedure is for this new procedure. The state doesn't issue many bulletins in this area at all. Occasionally they hold a seminar. The last actual set of printed guidelines for use by personnel issuing firearm's related documents was issued in 1994.

 

Other than that, it's verbal. So basically, yes. everyone is making it up as they go along. As laws are shaped by the associated case law, it will be a while. Unless someone wants to pay out sveral thousands to start the ball rolling, it will be confused for some time to come.

 

 

In this the Firearms unit takes it's lessons from ATF... if there;s no guidelines then they cant be held accountable. As paul and i have stated, and i'm sure Rich has seen, even fellow LEO's cant always get a straight answer out of them to specific questions.

[rscalzo 3]

You can always get a definate maybe....

[Old School 611]

You can always get a definate maybe....

 

I sympathize with you guys,LEO. How can you act and know you are doing the right thing? If you're not given enough info to know the specifics of how to enforce a law what do you do?

[rscalzo 3]

The state holds seminars from time to time. But getting it in printed form to use as a reference material isn't possible. So you just have to rely of whatever sources you can. The NJSP Firearm's Unit is helpful when requested for an opinion. But a statewide manual isn't happening.

 

Cost wise it would be a waste of resources. The laws change so frequently and court desions make changes rapid, printing costs would mount up. The state and federal govt.has gone to some on-line sources for some documentation cutting costs but not in this area.

[KpdPipes 388]

You can always get a definate maybe....

 

I sympathize with you guys,LEO. How can you act and know you are doing the right thing? If you're not given enough info to know the specifics of how to enforce a law what do you do?

 

The permit stuff falls under 2C:58..Luckily that's really more administrative stuff. What we enforce on a daily basis is 2C:39, it's a LITTLE easier to understand. It wouldnt be so bad if it had been written so Bass-Ackwards in the first place. it;s the only law i;ve ever seen that STARTS out Prohibiting something completely, then going to to list the exceptions to that rule. Im hoping that a McDonald win in SCOTUS will end up gaining a re-write for you guys. In all reality though I dont see anything changing Significantly before I retire in 2013.....Unless someone with DEEP pockets takes on the state and forces it sooner.

[BigBlueQ 7]

Just out of curiosity...who in the NJSP would you have to contact to plead your NEED for a second pistol purchase? I've been looking, just in case, but I can't seem to find any contact info.

[ianargent 7]

That's one of the issues in the ANJRPC suite - Scott Bach called the NJSP and asked to apply for an exemption and was told there was no way to do so.

[PK90 3,573]

The applicant shall certify, on a form prescribed by the superintendent, the specific exemption sought and the particular handguns to be purchased. This form shall be submitted to the superintendent at the same time as the permit to purchase a handgun, along with any pertinent documentation supporting the need for an exemption. If the information concerning the particular handguns to be purchased is not available when the form is submitted, that information shall be provided to the superintendent as soon as practicable thereafter. The superintendent shall consider the veracity, accuracy, and completeness of the information provided in determining whether the applicant meets the requirements for an exemption pursuant to this section. In considering whether an applicant qualifies as a collector under paragraph (2) of subsection a. of this section, the superintendent shall not consider the number of guns in the applicant's collection. In considering an exemption sought under paragraph (2) of subsection a. of this section, the superintendent shall not consider the merit or validity of the applicant's collecting activities.

The problem with this is that there is not a FORM that has been made available yet, AND it appears that one needs to be done each time one applies for more permits.

 

There is a Firearms Guidebook given to the PDs. The last copy I have is dated 9/20/2000. A new one was supposed to be issued this month, but I assume that since the OGAM law went into effect, it delayed the issuance of it.

[rscalzo 3]

That's about what we have. It was given to the department around that date. They should put it on line like many of the other forms to make dissemination easier. they finally put the charging manual on line after I spend the better part of a day duplicating them.