What caliber for a Saiga conversion?

[lunker 274]

After reading some of the excellent and informative posts in this forum, I have decided to try my hand at a Saiga conversion. I am a bit torn as to what caliber to do it in though.

Pros

7.62x39 - pretty cheap and has that satisfying sound and feel. It's what the gun was designed for.

5.45 - cheap

223 - steel case ammo is cheap and plentiful.

 

Cons

7.62x39 - few domestic sources for cheap ammo if imports dry up.

5.45 - usually corrosive. No domestic sources for this caliber if imports dry up or are banned in future. Hard to find magazines.

223 - lacks oomph of 7.62. Are magazines hard to find? I don't know.

 

I am leaning towards one in 223. I don't know if mags are hard to come by or rifle replacement parts hard to find. Also, I reload but I have found AK type rifles to chew up brass pretty good. I think I'll stick with steel cased ammo.

Any suggestions or guidance would be welcomed. Thanks.

[Caine 147]

Regarding mags - I know SGM Tactical makes 15 rounds mags for the .223 and x39 Saigas. Not for the 5.45 tho.

http://sgmtactical.com/index.php3?pageid=Magazines.htm

 

I am bringing a non-converted 5.45 Saiga on Sunday, and you're more than welcome to play with it.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

 

I am bringing a non-converted 5.45 Saiga on Sunday, and you're more than welcome to play with it.

 

Which I will be shooting!

[lunker 274]

Cool.thanks Pete. I'd love to.

[Caine 147]

Come one come all

 

But, to stay on topic, I'm inclined to say go with the 7.62 just because you already have the VEPR and the SKS unless you're looking for something different just for poops and giggles.

[Damjan 73]

I have a .223 Saiga and got it because of the .223 Rem available at any store in the US.

 

Good price on those Mags here as well as conversion parts:

 

http://www.sportsmentacticalsupply.com/ ... a-by-SGMT/

[lunker 274]

Every gun store in creation sells 223 ammo. That is a bonus that if I forget my own ammo or don't have access in an emergency.

[Guest]

having had both... 7.62 is cooler imo.. and obviously more powerful when it comes to penetrating things like light cover.. 223 is cool because of the domestic production of ammo..

 

I am seriously thinking about getting another one in 223..

[FFDP82 4]

If you get a .223 Saiga, get a 20" barreled version. .223 has very neutered ballistics out of a 16" barrel as it was never designed for that length of barrel. You also lose a lot in a .223 "AK" as the main advantage of that caliber is long range accuracy, which goes out the window when you fire it from a Saiga.

 

7.62x39/5.45 is extremely plentiful, even if imports "dried up" god knows how much of it there is in the country already. Same with 5.45. The reason you don't see any US Made 5.45/7.62 is likely because there is no demand, as why the hell would I pay .50c a round for US made when the Russians have it for .21c a round? If imports ever did dry up, I'm sure US companies would step in and start producing cheap x39. After all, if there's a market for something, someone, somewhere, will try and sell it. This is America, after all

 

Not to mention, with 5.45 at $158/1080 shipped right now, you could likely buy a couple decades worth of the stuff.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

If you get a .223 Saiga, get a 20" barreled version. .223 has very neutered ballistics out of a 16" barrel as it was never designed for that length of barrel. You also lose a lot in a .223 "AK" as the main advantage of that caliber is long range accuracy, which goes out the window when you fire it from a Saiga.

 

7.62x39/5.45 is extremely plentiful, even if imports "dried up" god knows how much of it there is in the country already. Same with 5.45. The reason you don't see any US Made 5.45/7.62 is likely because there is no demand, as why the hell would I pay .50c a round for US made when the Russians have it for .21c a round? If imports ever did dry up, I'm sure US companies would step in and start producing cheap x39. After all, if there's a market for something, someone, somewhere, will try and sell it. This is America, after all

 

Not to mention, with 5.45 at $158/1080 shipped right now, you could likely buy a couple decades worth of the stuff.

 

Yes, Yes, and Yes!

Couldn't have typed it better myself.

[lunker 274]

FFDP82,

 

I took the barrel length needed for 223 into consideration. I think it is an issue when shooting at things >= 50yards. If I want to take a long shot, I have my VEPR in 7.62x39 with the 20" barrel. I was thinking of something that is fun at the range, inexpensive and easy (in terms of available ammo) to feed, and would be easy to maneuver in a house if need be. The 16" barrel fits that bill a little better than the 20". If the ammo availability weren't an issue, I would go with (and still might) the 5.45 since it is hellaciously cheap. I just hate the idea of having to clean an AK after shooting it. Just doesn't seem right.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

5.45 and 7.62 both perform better than .223

5.45 is cheap, both corrosive and non corrosive

.223 has nearly no taper, thus by design will be less reliable than .223. Part of the AK systems reliability comes from the "wedge" shaped round of 5.45/7.62.

.223 mags are harder to find

5.45 and 7.62x39 mags are plentiful (yes, even the doublestack 10 rounders are easy to get from century in 5.45)

 

7.62 packs a good punch

 

Both soviet rounds are cheaper than .223

[Ray Ray 3,566]

5.45 and 7.62 both perform better than .223

5.45 is cheap, both corrosive and non corrosive

.223 has nearly no taper, thus by design will be less reliable than .223. Part of the AK systems reliability comes from the "wedge" shaped round of 5.45/7.62.

.223 mags are harder to find

5.45 and 7.62x39 mags are plentiful (yes, even the doublestack 10 rounders are easy to get from century in 5.45)

 

7.62 packs a good punch

 

Both soviet rounds are cheaper than .223

 

I agree with everything except the first part. They perform better? Like how?

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

5.45 and 7.62 both perform better than .223

5.45 is cheap, both corrosive and non corrosive

.223 has nearly no taper, thus by design will be less reliable than .223. Part of the AK systems reliability comes from the "wedge" shaped round of 5.45/7.62.

.223 mags are harder to find

5.45 and 7.62x39 mags are plentiful (yes, even the doublestack 10 rounders are easy to get from century in 5.45)

 

7.62 packs a good punch

 

Both soviet rounds are cheaper than .223

 

I agree with everything except the first part. They perform better? Like how?

 

 

5.45's entire nose is hollow, so it immediatly begins to flip aorund and screw stuff up big time. The bullet is long because of its steel core which makes it even more deadly when it flips.

 

7.62 makes big holes. End of story

[Guest Damagedworld]

5.45 and 7.62 both perform better than .223

5.45 is cheap, both corrosive and non corrosive

.223 has nearly no taper, thus by design will be less reliable than .223. Part of the AK systems reliability comes from the "wedge" shaped round of 5.45/7.62.

.223 mags are harder to find

5.45 and 7.62x39 mags are plentiful (yes, even the doublestack 10 rounders are easy to get from century in 5.45)

 

7.62 packs a good punch

 

Both soviet rounds are cheaper than .223

 

 

if you get the AR mag adapter for 223 magazines become a non-issue..

[Radek 73]

5.45, even non-corrosive ammo is cheaper than 223 and besides I like the "thumppppppp!" of this round! Other option is to get a AK74 variant instead ...

 

I wish someone would make a long barreled handgun to shoot this round! That would be like a FN 5.7 except even more kick-a**!

[GRIZ 3,369]

If you get a .223 Saiga, get a 20" barreled version. .223 has very neutered ballistics out of a 16" barrel as it was never designed for that length of barrel. You also lose a lot in a .223 "AK" as the main advantage of that caliber is long range accuracy, which goes out the window when you fire it from a Saiga.

 

 

I have a 223 Saiga with the 16" and I wouldn't buy a 20" based on my experiences. You're loosing maybe 150-200 fps with milspec ammo going from a 20 to a 16. You'll still have sufficient velocity at 200 yards for the jacket to fragment which is what gives the most damage in a FMJ. I have fired several 16" and 20" 223 Saigas. All the 16" shot about 3" at 100 yd with just about any ammo. The 20s shot 4-6". This you can attribute to more barrel whip (we have all seen the slow mo video). The 16 is stiffer than the 20.

 

Just my experience. Based on a limited sampling I grant you.

[FFDP82 4]

I wish someone would make a long barreled handgun to shoot this round! That would be like a FN 5.7 except even more kick-a**!

 

No.

NO.

NO NO NO.

NO NO NO NO NO NO

 

I hope for all that is good and holy that a major manufacturer NEVER starts producing a 5.45x39mm handgun.

 

The 5.45 surplus ammo is steel core. If it were ever "able to fired in a commonly available handgun" as per ATF's definition, all import of the ammo would cease, as importation of "armor piercing" ammo is not legal. 5.45 surplus would no longer be imported commercially and the price of ammo would rise drastically as the only available 5.45 would be the Wolf/Bear stuff.

 

Think it's far fetched? This is why there is no longer any surplus 7.62x39 imported except for the recent Yugo junk. The cheap Chinese crap was coming over by the boatload for pennies. Look up the OA93 Pistol and how the company just having a few prototypes was enough for the ATF to stop all imports of surplus 7.62x39.

 

http://www.thegunzone.com/762x39.html

[montecristo345 4]

I never knew that about 7.62, That's some scary stuff. I agree with you I hope no one ever makes a 5.45x39mm handgun

[Maksim 1,504]

If you are getting a Saiga... might as well, go 7.62x39 or 5.45. It is a saiga... so it is not going to win any precision contests. reliability should be good anyway... even in a 223. My 223 vepr has not had 1 FTF, FTE, or FT go Booom.

 

If you reload 223, I would look at that option personally. My pet peeve is corrosive ammo.... then again, if I wasnt reloading, I might not care.

[lunker 274]

If you are getting a Saiga... might as well, go 7.62x39 or 5.45. It is a saiga... so it is not going to win any precision contests. reliability should be good anyway... even in a 223. My 223 vepr has not had 1 FTF, FTE, or FT go Booom.

 

If you reload 223, I would look at that option personally. My pet peeve is corrosive ammo.... then again, if I wasnt reloading, I might not care.

 

I went with the 223. It will be my conversion project. I don't see why I would even start reloading in 223, since I am not buying this to be a precision rifle. I will run the cheapest 223 I can find through it.

[Guest Damagedworld]

I went with the 223. It will be my conversion project. I don't see why I would even start reloading in 223, since I am not buying this to be a precision rifle. I will run the cheapest 223 I can find through it.

 

 

my Saiga 223 ate cheap steel cased ammo all day.. zero issues..

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

I went with the 223...

 

 

[lunker 274]

 

Don't worry. I go through rifles like **** through a goose. There's always time for me to get a 7.62 Saiga.

[Caine 147]

I guess shooting my 5.45 didn't leave a lasting impression

[FFDP82 4]

Congratulations on your new inaccurate varmint rifle!

[Guest Damagedworld]

Don't worry. I go through rifles like **** through a goose. There's always time for me to get a 7.62 Saiga.

 

 

when you are ready let me know.. might be interested in a trade.. i love 7.62x39 but am considering an AR piston gun.. if I do that having the Saiga in 223 might be my best bet so they can share ammo.. i like to have the LEAST amount of calibers needed..

[lunker 274]

Congratulations on your new inaccurate varmint rifle!

 

 

Thanks Prick!

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Congratulations on your new inaccurate varmint rifle!

 

hahaha, that there is funny

[lunker 274]

I guess shooting my 5.45 didn't leave a lasting impression

 

 

Ha Ha. I liked it Pete, but I thought it would be useful to have a rifle in a caliber that every store carries. 7.62 is close, but I already have the VEPR in that. As for 223 being a varmint round , well...

Shane posted a nice link about the effects of 223 on humans. Warning, it is **graphic**

http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=17111.0