Fist Fight Retaining Gun Rights..

[vladtepes 1,060]

This is purely hypothetical.. but the other thread got me thinking.. so you are out with your girlfriend.. and some jackass bumps into her.. words are exchanged and next thing a couple punches are thrown and the police get involved... what happens next? if I physically defend myself did I just kiss legal NJ gun ownership good bye? I guess it would depend on the charges? is anything about that a standard procedure?

 

I know that the outcome will vary hugely depending on officer.. other person involved.. extent of injuries..

 

but just fishing for some info..

[robot_hell 72]

I've wondered about that too. I think as NJ gun owners we are conditioned to think that any run-in with the law will result in the loss of our 2A freedom. That's probably due to the extensive background checks and the need to hire a lawyer if you have anything more than a speeding ticket on your record and you want to buy guns.

[Malsua 1,422]

I don't believe there are hard and fast rules.

 

If you're drinking and get into a scrap, I wouldn't apply for any pistol permits for a long long time.

 

I think the biggest issue is taking offense at the slightest bump. I've been out with some really cool cats in my day and if someone did something like that, they can diffuse the situation. Smile, apologize and keep walking. I've also been out with people who were carrying although I wasn't at the time. Those guys ALWAYS walked away because they had a gun and because the stakes were so high. This was back when I lived in Ohio, all of them were off duty and would have had no issue laying the schmucks out.

 

I was a 20 something angry young man too, and thankfully never went to jail or the morgue for some of the bar fights I was in...I did end up at the hospital for stitches though. In retrospect it was some of the dumbest behavior I ever engaged in for some of the dumbest reasons.

 

I don't drink any more nor do I go places where a bump is a high insult. I suspect if you're just walking down the boardwalk and a thug starts messing you, that's one thing. If you're at a rave with a .15 b.a.c. and get into a scrap, you're probably done with firearms.

[RecessedFilter 222]

Simply stated, I just try to avoid situations like that.

 

Just like everyone is always worried about getting pulled over with firearms in the car, I also try to follow the MV laws while driving with guns in the car, nonetheless driving in general.

 

If you try to not get involved in sticky situations, you won't have to worry about anything.

[GRIZ 3,369]

You are required to retreat from a non-lethal confrontation in NJ. We all know there are situations where you can't and have to defend yourself. In any case don't throw the first punch. Yeah, you may have to spot the jerk a shot at you. You need to establish you were defending yourself. Avoidence is best but we also know sometimes that's not possible. There is no standard procedure I know of and each event depends on the totality of the situation.

[vjf915 456]

I have to say that the "procedure" for defending yourself in a fist fight would be the same as defending yourself in your home. If you can avoid the situation, do it. If you can walk away (even if it makes you look like a woman), do it. If you absolutely MUST defend yourself, just go as far as neutralizing the threat. Don't kick the snot out of the guy. If it's one on one, try to simply pin him on the ground until police arrive, and act as mature and responsible as possible. If there are two of them.....knock one out and pin the other on the ground

[vladtepes 1,060]

I don't believe there are hard and fast rules.

 

If you're drinking and get into a scrap, I wouldn't apply for any pistol permits for a long long time.

 

I think the biggest issue is taking offense at the slightest bump. I've been out with some really cool cats in my day and if someone did something like that, they can diffuse the situation. Smile, apologize and keep walking. I've also been out with people who were carrying although I wasn't at the time. Those guys ALWAYS walked away because they had a gun and because the stakes were so high. This was back when I lived in Ohio, all of them were off duty and would have had no issue laying the schmucks out.

 

I was a 20 something angry young man too, and thankfully never went to jail or the morgue for some of the bar fights I was in...I did end up at the hospital for stitches though. In retrospect it was some of the dumbest behavior I ever engaged in for some of the dumbest reasons.

 

I don't drink any more nor do I go places where a bump is a high insult. I suspect if you're just walking down the boardwalk and a thug starts messing you, that's one thing. If you're at a rave with a .15 b.a.c. and get into a scrap, you're probably done with firearms.

 

just to be a little more clear.. I would.. at ALL costs avoid any kind of fight.. fighting is really not fun.. and even if you "win" you still normally end up with a few bumps and bruises that makes the next morning less enjoyable than normal.. but with that said I have been in a few altercations here and there in my life.. most were unavoidable.. non ended up with serious LEO involvement.. but just to give an example.. I was at a Phillies game with my (now) ex-wife several years back... and some drunk dbag college kid bumped into her causing his beer to spill.. she apologized even though she really did nothing wrong.. i was about 5-10 feet away.. he called her a stupid **** or something and shoved her.. I immediately ran over and shoved him back and he went down onto the ground... I started yelling at him like some stupid goon... and he got up really slowly and backed off apologizing.. this was something really dumb and lame.. but in retrospect beings as how it was a sports venue.. in philly.. alcohol involved.. it was very likely that I could have been arrested.. luckily no one cared, and it was put to rest.. but I couldn't help but think.. could that stupid indiscretion cost me so much? could that have escalated to a charge that would be substantial enough to hurt my gun ownership in NJ? once you have guns.. what kind of charges would result in having to forfeit them... like I said.. I really do not go around looking for trouble.. it's not my thing.. but it was more of a what if..

[vjf915 456]

I think one thing we are missing is that A LOT of it rests upon the legal aftermath that follows. Does the possibility exist? I am sure that it does. But with a good lawyer, and an understanding jury....you could avoid it depending on a lot of variables.

[BRN169 6]

The rule of thumb is anything you are convicted of that "could" carry a sentence of a year or more will make you a convicted felon and thus prohibited. So if you are convicted of a fourth degree crime in which you could have been sentenced to up to 1½ years but were only sentenced to 6 months you would still be prohibited. At least this is how it was explained to me. Under this situation you could get the conviction expunged but certain crimes can not be expunged...

[e80hydro 120]

This is purely hypothetical.. but the other thread got me thinking.. so you are out with your girlfriend.. and some jackass bumps into her.. words are exchanged and next thing a couple punches are thrown and the police get involved... what happens next? if I physically defend myself did I just kiss legal NJ gun ownership good bye? I guess it would depend on the charges? is anything about that a standard procedure?

 

I know that the outcome will vary hugely depending on officer.. other person involved.. extent of injuries..

 

but just fishing for some info..

 

Try "I'm sorry" or "excuse me" first before going at it.

[joecs1 11]

The situation leaves a lot of "what ifs". I think a lot of people should take a basic pistol class as well as a "use of force" class. This will explain a lot of these situations. If he attacked you with fists, you are able to defend yourself with fists. Reasonable force on force. And if a guy is 4" bigger than you and 70lbs heavier, dont think you can automaticaly go to guns(you cant use leathal force). It is not that clear and simple. Its your duty to retreat when out on the street. If you cant, go to similar force on force. If he pulls a knife, all bets are off. Anything less than clear and immeadiate danger, you will find yourself needing a lawyer to explain things at the mininum. The laws are very dangerous for us good guys in this state! Ambiguous laws are not our friend. Going back to the orig post, You wont be in any trouble if you can prove you were defending yourself or girlfriend. Good luck with that, because NJ has been known to lock up Good guys when the laws are drawn up as we have them.

[Babaganoosh 192]

Going back to the orig post, You wont be in any trouble if you can prove you were defending yourself or girlfriend. Good luck with that, because NJ has been known to lock up Good guys when the laws are drawn up as we have them.

 

If you dole out a beating on the guy even in self defense the cops tend to lock you up for that.

[joecs1 11]

Very true. Fists till the threat of fists is over or you can retreat! And even then, you will be explainig after a ride in the back of a police car!

[joecs1 11]

AND ALWAYS BE THE FIRST TO CALL THE POLICE AND LET THEM KNOW YOU WERE ATTACKED AND YOU WERE THE VICTOM! That way it is recorded on 911, and if you have to go to trial, the jury gets to hear that!

And if it looks bad that you are going to the PD, you might want to start complaining about chest pains, and go to the hospital for a complete check up. Request an ambulance and have your loved ones hire an attorney,before you get released from the hospital, if you dont have one on retainer already!

[KpdPipes 388]

Ok Barring special circumstances (Shoplifting, and Domestic Violence) We ARE NOT PERMITTED TO ARREST for any Disorderly Persons, or Petty Disorderly Oersons (DP/PDP) Offenses WE DO NOT WITNESS. Therefore if the fight is over when we get there, nobody is going to be in cuffs..unless one of the parties gets stupid. What We WILL do is document the incident with both side's stories as to what happened, then refer you to the Municipal Court so you can make your own complaints. IF the fight is still going on when we ge there..depending on the circumstances, and the fact that we DO have discretion, the parties STILL probably wont be arrested...again as long as they knock it off and dont get stupid with us, and the same Court Referral will be issued. Of course the simpler solution is not to get involved in fistfights..but i've found over the years that the Simpler the solution, the more difficult it is for the general public to grasp it.

[Babaganoosh 192]

Ok Barring special circumstances (Shoplifting, and Domestic Violence) We ARE NOT PERMITTED TO ARREST for any Disorderly Persons, or Petty Disorderly Oersons (DP/PDP) Offenses WE DO NOT WITNESS. Therefore if the fight is over when we get there, nobody is going to be in cuffs..unless one of the parties gets stupid. What We WILL do is document the incident with both side's stories as to what happened, then refer you to the Municipal Court so you can make your own complaints. IF the fight is still going on when we ge there..depending on the circumstances, and the fact that we DO have discretion, the parties STILL probably wont be arrested...again as long as they knock it off and dont get stupid with us, and the same Court Referral will be issued. Of course the simpler solution is not to get involved in fistfights..but i've found over the years that the Simpler the solution, the more difficult it is for the general public to grasp it.

 

 

Interesting. Thats also exactly what I was told to do by the Belmar Police guys when they got to my house after the guy came at me the other day. They said he was obviously full of **** but since they didn't see it theres nothing they could do. Makes sense.

[mipafox 438]

This is purely hypothetical.. but the other thread got me thinking.. so you are out with your girlfriend.. and some jackass bumps into her.. words are exchanged and next thing a couple punches are thrown and the police get involved... what happens next? if I physically defend myself did I just kiss legal NJ gun ownership good bye? I guess it would depend on the charges? is anything about that a standard procedure?

 

I know that the outcome will vary hugely depending on officer.. other person involved.. extent of injuries..

 

but just fishing for some info..

 

The answer is, "Yes." This happened to a friend of mine. Somebody assaulted him and he pushed the guy HARD. The guy fell and hit his head, but turned out OK. He was charged and convicted in NJ. He never spent a day in jail but the conviction had a potential maximum sentence of greater than 2 years. Under Federal law, he is never allowed to touch a firearm anywhere in the United States again. Unless he gets an expungment from NJ.

 

Skipping over the background, and the "he said she said," which may all play a part, that's what happened. So you bet your a** a fist fight might result in losing all your firearm rights Nation-wide. And possibly forever.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Skipping over the background, and the "he said she said," which may all play a part, that's what happened. So you bet your a** a fist fight might result in losing all your firearm rights Nation-wide. And possibly forever.

 

take your high cap mags.. flash hiders... CCW.. and so on.. I would rather have the ability to defend myself without fear of legal trouble over ANY of those things..

[mipafox 438]

take your high cap mags.. flash hiders... CCW.. and so on.. I would rather have the ability to defend myself without fear of legal trouble over ANY of those things..

 

Then there is your answer.

 

Unfortunately, we are increasingly seeing a lot of very, very bad people along the NE seaboard. You meet a couple of these guys with guns and kiss your a** goodbye unless you are armed. Maybe even then.

 

Fortunately, murder rates etc. have not really increased that much. But if your number comes up, the chances of meeting determined, dedicated, very bad people has skyrocketed. The self-defense dynamic has changed.