Zed's_Dead 16 Posted February 22, 2011 Check out this article from the Courier Post. http://www.courierpostonline.com/article/20110222/NEWS01/110222062/Numerous-weapons-bullet-proof-vest-gas-mask-found-inside-Camco-home If it's true that he ordered the guy into the house while holding a handgun, I think he's pretty much screwed. That search will probably hold up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CageFighter 236 Posted February 22, 2011 he's screwed bc of the DRUGS in his house. plus, the guy lives in CAMDEN, i'd probably answer the door w/ a pistol if i lived there too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted February 22, 2011 I love how they list a bunch of useless nonsense it doesn't even say "held the driver at gun point" "ordered into the house" is a very vague statement, did he point the gun at him and say get in?.. and I wish news outlets would stop listing legal items in a manner in which it makes them sound illegal.. it is really annoying.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted February 22, 2011 he's screwed bc of the DRUGS in his house. plus, the guy lives in CAMDEN, i'd probably answer the door w/ a pistol if i lived there too. see the article is just horrible.. were the guns legally owned? was the guy high? did he detain the delivery guy? what poor reporting.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tommy3rd 132 Posted February 22, 2011 So, if there were no drugs and the magazine on his AR is the 15 round type, will he still face weapons charges? They keep on mentioning loaded guns all over the house. I don't know about you, but ALL my guns in the house are always loaded and ready to go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zed's_Dead 16 Posted February 22, 2011 I agree it's shoddy reporting...lots of details left out. But why answer the door with a gun in your hand? If I ordered a pizza, and a guy shows up at my house with a flat, square box, smelling faintly of cardboard and yumminess, I'm not going to interrogate him at gunpoint lol. Failure to use common sense seems to be the culprit here IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted February 22, 2011 So, if there were no drugs and the magazine on his AR is the 15 round type, will he still face weapons charges? They keep on mentioning loaded guns all over the house. I don't know about you, but ALL my guns in the house are always loaded and ready to go. I answer the door with a loaded gun ANY time I answer the door.. I dont shove it in someones face and say "GET IN!!!!!!" lol which is why this article is not worth the internet space it wastes.. instead of details that matter it focuses on everything that doesn't matter.. things that would "shock" that average reader.. " OMMMGGGZZZZ loaded guns!!!!!!!!!! what shall we do!!!!!!!!" this type of reporting is exactly why my ex-employer thinks that I am nuts for owning firearms.. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zed's_Dead 16 Posted February 22, 2011 he's screwed bc of the DRUGS in his house. plus, the guy lives in CAMDEN, i'd probably answer the door w/ a pistol if i lived there too. It says he lived in Pine Hill, which is in Camden County, but not anything like Camden. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted February 22, 2011 I'm not going to interrogate him at gunpoint lol. that is the problem with the article.. it made you assume that is what happened.. it says nothing about being at "gun point"... the man answered the door with a gun.. on his belt? in his waste band? in the drivers face? who knows.. apparently the reporter doesn't.. and if he does.. he's not telling.. lol 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zed's_Dead 16 Posted February 22, 2011 I answer the door with a loaded gun ANY time I answer the door.. I dont shove it in someones face and say "GET IN!!!!!!" lol which is why this article is not worth the internet space it wastes.. instead of details that matter it focuses on everything that doesn't matter.. things that would "shock" that average reader.. " OMMMGGGZZZZ loaded guns!!!!!!!!!! what shall we do!!!!!!!!" this type of reporting is exactly why my ex-employer thinks that I am nuts for owning firearms.. Crap, Vlad...I meant to hit the "+" sign for your post but I was laughing and hit the minus sign by mistake! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted February 22, 2011 Crap, Vlad...I meant to hit the "+" sign for your post but I was laughing and hit the minus sign by mistake! LOL it's ok.. I'll fix it for you.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,369 Posted February 23, 2011 So, if there were no drugs and the magazine on his AR is the 15 round type, But there were drugs and the article says high capacity magazine. I have no sympathy for this guy. Based on what the delivery man told the police there was probable cause to contain the guy and his weapons. He assaulted the delivery guy and kidnapped him. Search will hold up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeteF 1,044 Posted February 23, 2011 Police were called to the house Friday night after a after a food delivery driver notified police that when he went to deliver takeout to a man at the house he was greeted at the door by a man with a black handgun. The resident, Ricciardi, ordered the driver inside of the house but paid for the food before sending the driver on his way, police said. This could as easily be taken as he had a holstered gun (LEGAL) when he answered the door and told the driver to come in out of the wind and cold (Common Courtesy). This is typical of the shoddy reporting whenever a gun is "involved". This story tells us absoluely nothing about what happened. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnKimble 4 Posted February 23, 2011 I think what someone else said, common sense was the culprit here. Sounds kinda stoopid to leave guns by the door and windows. I keep mine loaded, but out of sight...but just in arms reach... Sounds like he was a stupid person... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 177 Posted February 23, 2011 Because the delivery guy felt threatened, as he felt compelled to obey the order to step into the house for fear of getting shot... the search will probably hold up based on his testimony. Just saying I saw a guy have a gun in a holster on his waist in his own home should not be enough. Then again this is NJ... I love how they made it appear as if having a loaded gun in your own home is illegal in the article. Unless there were minors present and the loaded guns were not properly secured, there isn't a statute they can stand on when it comes to this. As long as the AR isn't considered an AW, this guy will go up on high cap mag and drug charges, for that I have no sympathy for him. The rest of the "loaded guns" will not add onto his charges provided they are not prohibited weapons, or he isn't a prohibited person. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigHayden 77 Posted February 23, 2011 So, if there were no drugs and the magazine on his AR is the 15 round type, But there were drugs and the article says high capacity magazine. I have no sympathy for this guy. Based on what the delivery man told the police there was probable cause to contain the guy and his weapons. He assaulted the delivery guy and kidnapped him. Search will hold up. Not sure where you got that from... Vlad is right, there aren't enough details in this article to draw any conclusions. It says the man "ordered" the delivery driver inside; even that is up for interpretation... If he said, "Come on in", and he had a gun in a holster, would a pants-pissing, NJ "guns are bad, mmkay" delivery guy describe that as an "order" to police? I think so. Nowhere in the article does it say he ordered the driver in the house at gunpoint. Everything else is speculation. I'm not sticking up for the guy, because we don't have all the facts. If he had "high capacity" magazines (remember, the media thinks "high capacity" is anything over 10 rounds; not the 15 that's in NJ law), then he should be charged with that (just like B. Aitken). If he had weed and coke, then he should be charged with that too (even though Loretta Weinberg might want to let that one slide). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeteF 1,044 Posted February 23, 2011 Because the delivery guy felt threatened, as he felt compelled to obey the order to step into the house for fear of getting shot... the search will probably hold up based on his testimony. Just saying I saw a guy have a gun in a holster on his waist in his own home should not be enough. Then again this is NJ... I love how they made it appear as if having a loaded gun in your own home is illegal in the article. Unless there were minors present and the loaded guns were not properly secured, there isn't a statute they can stand on when it comes to this. As long as the AR isn't considered an AW, this guy will go up on high cap mag and drug charges, for that I have no sympathy for him. The rest of the "loaded guns" will not add onto his charges provided they are not prohibited weapons, or he isn't a prohibited person. Without the details it's real hard to make a conclusion. As to the "high capacity" magazine, was it a 15 round mag that a unknowing reporter thought was a high capacity mag or was it a 30 round permanently altered to only hold 15, or was did it actually have a capacity > 15? We don't know, and I'm sure the reporter doesn't either. Yeah the drugs are not good, but there is no mention of a warrant to enter the house. And unless the guy actually pulled a gun on the delivery guy they have no cause to enter the house. So any decent lawyer will have anything found in the house thrown out as evidence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 177 Posted February 23, 2011 Agreed, we're not getting the full picture. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,369 Posted February 23, 2011 He assaulted the delivery guy and kidnapped him. I'm not the only one thinking that way. Dan said: Because the delivery guy felt threatened, as he felt compelled to obey the order to step into the house for fear of getting shot. If the delivery guy felt threatened. whether or not the guy had the gun out, he can be charged with assault. The unlawful capturing (threat of harm) and taking (ordering him in the house)constitutes kidnapping. It makes no diffrence if it were for 5 seconds or 5 days. Usually isn't charged that way but along the lines of illegal imprisonment. Yes we don't have the entire story but we have the internet gun forum wave of support for someone because he has guns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,369 Posted February 23, 2011 oops, double post! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zed's_Dead 16 Posted February 23, 2011 I probably should have put this in my original post: § 2C:12-1. Assault a. Simple assault. A person is guilty of assault if he: (1) Attempts to cause or purposely, knowingly or recklessly causes bodily injury to another; or(2) Negligently causes bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon; or (3) Attempts by physical menace to put another in fear of imminent serious bodily injury. Simple assault is a disorderly persons offense unless committed in a fight or scuffle entered into by mutual consent, in which case it is a petty disorderly persons offense. b. Aggravated assault. A person is guilty of aggravated assault if he: (1) Attempts to cause serious bodily injury to another, or causes such injury purposely or knowingly or under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life recklessly causes such injury; or (2) Attempts to cause or purposely or knowingly causes bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon; or (3) Recklessly causes bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon; or (4) Knowingly under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life points a firearm, as defined in section 2C:39-1 f., at or in the direction of another, whether or not the actor believes it to be loaded; or So maybe he's just guilty of simple assault under (a)(3) above. But the display of the weapon is probably enough under subsection b(4)to get him charged with aggravated assault. I think it would be very tough to get the search thrown out, even under the limited details we have. Not saying I wouldn't try if he was my client, but in our political climate in NJ, very difficult IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeteF 1,044 Posted February 23, 2011 He assaulted the delivery guy and kidnapped him. I'm not the only one thinking that way. Dan said: Because the delivery guy felt threatened, as he felt compelled to obey the order to step into the house for fear of getting shot. If the delivery guy felt threatened. whether or not the guy had the gun out, he can be charged with assault. The unlawful capturing (threat of harm) and taking (ordering him in the house)constitutes kidnapping. It makes no diffrence if it were for 5 seconds or 5 days. Usually isn't charged that way but along the lines of illegal imprisonment. Yes we don't have the entire story but we have the internet gun forum wave of support for someone because he has guns. Where does the story say he assaulted the delivery guy? If the delivery guy felt threatened by a perfectly legal action, then that is the delivery guys problem not the home owners. If a large man walks up to a small woman and says hi is the man assaulting the woman if she is scared. I don't think so. If the gun never left the holster then no assault was commited. Kidnapped, give me a break he paid the guy then sent him on his way how can that even vaguely be construed as kidnapping? Like I said earlier without the details this story would serve better as toilet paper. I withold support or condemnation for the guy without details. I condemn the "reporter" as an idiot for writing such a half assed story. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeteF 1,044 Posted February 23, 2011 I probably should have put this in my original post: § 2C:12-1. Assault a. Simple assault. A person is guilty of assault if he: (1) Attempts to cause or purposely, knowingly or recklessly causes bodily injury to another; or(2) Negligently causes bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon; or (3) Attempts by physical menace to put another in fear of imminent serious bodily injury. Simple assault is a disorderly persons offense unless committed in a fight or scuffle entered into by mutual consent, in which case it is a petty disorderly persons offense. b. Aggravated assault. A person is guilty of aggravated assault if he: (1) Attempts to cause serious bodily injury to another, or causes such injury purposely or knowingly or under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life recklessly causes such injury; or (2) Attempts to cause or purposely or knowingly causes bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon; or (3) Recklessly causes bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon; or (4) Knowingly under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life points a firearm, as defined in section 2C:39-1 f., at or in the direction of another, whether or not the actor believes it to be loaded; or So maybe he's just guilty of simple assault under (a)(3) above. But the display of the weapon is probably enough under subsection b(4)to get him charged with aggravated assault. I think it would be very tough to get the search thrown out, even under the limited details we have. Not saying I wouldn't try if he was my client, but in our political climate in NJ, very difficult IMO. Ok change the situation slightly, man answering the door is a cop in uniform who just got home from his shift when delivery guy gets there. Is he guilty of assault? Unless the cop pulls the gun this is a non-story, so is the original situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zed's_Dead 16 Posted February 23, 2011 Ok change the situation slightly, man answering the door is a cop in uniform who just got home from his shift when delivery guy gets there. Is he guilty of assault? Unless the cop pulls the gun this is a non-story, so is the original situation. Agree with the first part completely. Disagree with the second part completely. Why would a policeman in full uniform put you in fear of bodily injury? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djg0770 481 Posted February 23, 2011 (4) Knowingly under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life points a firearm, as defined in section 2C:39-1 f., at or in the direction of another, whether or not the actor believes it to be loaded; or Really really good to know. I will answer the door with a machete instead. (commenting on the inanity of the law - not on SJ's post) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,369 Posted February 23, 2011 Where does the story say he assaulted the delivery guy? The story does not say it. Please read the statutes posted by SJ Eal. The victim's perception of the situation as it fits the law not the violator's intent is the determining factor. Kidnapped, give me a break As I said if the delivery guy felt threatened (he may be shot if he doesn't comply) when the guy told him to come in the house (yes we don't know the tone of that request). I withold support or condemnation for the guy without details. I think most would construe making excuses for his actions, claiming the guy had his gun in a holster when the story doesn't say if it was in a holster, his hand, or his teeth, and giving out of context analogies "If a large man walks up to a small... as supporting the guy. You've hever said the guy could, just maybe, be wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigHayden 77 Posted February 23, 2011 The victim's perception of the situation as it fits the law not the violator's intent is the determining factor. Not sure what you read, but every subsection talks about inflicting bodily harm or intending to inflict bodily harm. Having a gun while talking to someone does not necessarily convey intent to inflict bodily harm. Nowhere did I read anything about the victim's perception. I'm not defending the guy. We don't have enough information, period. Reaching the conclusion that he was wrong is just as speculative as concluding that he did nothing wrong. I reserve judgement until we know all the facts, but the possibility still exists that he was a gang-banger or that he was the most upstanding citizen in the state (though that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing keeps nagging me... nothing has been proven by anyone yet). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted February 23, 2011 He assaulted the delivery guy and kidnapped him. I'm not the only one thinking that way. Dan said: Because the delivery guy felt threatened, as he felt compelled to obey the order to step into the house for fear of getting shot. If the delivery guy felt threatened. whether or not the guy had the gun out, he can be charged with assault. The unlawful capturing (threat of harm) and taking (ordering him in the house)constitutes kidnapping. It makes no diffrence if it were for 5 seconds or 5 days. Usually isn't charged that way but along the lines of illegal imprisonment. Yes we don't have the entire story but we have the internet gun forum wave of support for someone because he has guns. I am not supporting him.. he is obviously a criminal.. just like I did not completely support BA... this guy had drugs.. and is going to jail.. fair enough.. but they paint the picture of a drug dealing thug with machine guns and 75 round drums... as someone pointed out in the view of some anything higher than the 10 round magazines some guns come with could for the sake of media sensationalism.. lets face it.. "guy wearing gun in holster tells pizza guy to come in.. police follow up investigation turns up small quantity of marijuana and cocaine" is a far different story than "man armed for end of world with assault rifles, body armor, and gas masks orders pizza guy into home police raid turns up amounts of cocaine and marijuana" I am not saying the guy is innocent.. or deserving of any sympathy.. but I am just saying the article does a poor job of conveying any substantial facts.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeteF 1,044 Posted February 23, 2011 Agree with the first part completely. Disagree with the second part completely. Why would a policeman in full uniform put you in fear of bodily injury? Same reason an armed person IN HIS OWN HOUSE with a HOLSTERED weapon would. Again for all the details reported, the guy could be a complete Dbag who deserves to rot in prison. If he brandished a weapon at the delivery guy he deserves everything they can throw at him. If he did not brandish a weapon there was no offense and no reason for the police to enter his house. Where does the story say he assaulted the delivery guy? The story does not say it. Please read the statutes posted by SJ Eal. The victim's perception of the situation as it fits the law not the violator's intent is the determining factor. The victims perception of a legal act means jack. So if I am afraid of every person of Arab descent, therefore if an Arab person comes near me, I am being assaulted because I perceive they will hurt me. What kind of asinine logic is that? Kidnapped, give me a break As I said if the delivery guy felt threatened (he may be shot if he doesn't comply) when the guy told him to come in the house (yes we don't know the tone of that request). See previous comment. I withold support or condemnation for the guy without details. I think most would construe making excuses for his actions, claiming the guy had his gun in a holster when the story doesn't say if it was in a holster, his hand, or his teeth, and giving out of context analogies "If a large man walks up to a small... as supporting the guy. You've hever said the guy could, just maybe, be wrong. that when he went to deliver takeout to a man at the house he was greeted at the door by a man with a black handgun. Never once did I make an excuse for this guy, I just said based on the lack of details in the report anything could have happened. The story never said he pointed the gun at the delivery guy, the story did not say the gun was in the mans hand, the story never even said that the gun was on the man's person. Just that the man had a gun. Was it in a holster? Was it on the coffee table? Was it in the guys hand? We don't know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anselmo 87 Posted February 23, 2011 http://www.southjerseylocalnews.com/articles/2011/02/21/record_breeze/news/doc4d62913dc2667146217026.txt The victim told police he knocked on the door of the residence to deliver food that had been ordered when white male opened the door, pointed a black handgun at him, and told him to come in. According to the police report, a search of the residence led to the seizure of several rifles, including an AR15 type 5.56mm assault firearm, loaded with a high capacity magazine containing 32 rounds of ammunition, 19 of which were incendiary tracer ammunition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
