OBRPC Outdoor Range Mondays and Tuesday Mornings

[hd2000fxdl 422]

How many members of the club are here and enjoy USPSA style shooting. I had an idea and would like to see if anyone might be interested. I know many of enjoy this sport and I know Mondays and Tuesdays are not the best days, however the range is usually open and using one of the pits would be ok not to interfere with anyone else who may be there.

 

I was thinking about having a little get together of club members on these days if there is interest. We wouldn't be able to use the Clubs USPSA supplies but I think we cold come up with something.

 

How would you like to have small group sessions for learning and familiarization with USPSA in a relaxed manner, Just people getting together and learning from one another and getting more accustom to shooting this sport.

We could meet once a month, twice or weekly depending on the interest, if we do get a regular crew together I will even purchase a timer and see what I can do about setting up some scoring on a laptop to track how we do.

 

These sessions would be conducted with the same rules and safety precautions as a regular match, safety first and foremost as we all know.

 

So might there be some folks that might be interested from the club, if so let me know and maybe we can brainstorm some good ideas to make this a really fun a great learning experience for all who attend.

 

Just something I have been thinking about and hope there may be some interest. May also and not sure about the rules, will have to check, but maybe some of the more experienced USPSA folks and or trainers in th sport may see this as opportunity to get involved down the road and make it a win win situation for both sides.

 

Harry

[hiker88 22]

I like the idea but I work weekdays.

 

Have you tried joining the action shooting at the indoor range?

[Vlad G 345]

I would encourage you to try the indoor matches. Also, be careful what you experiment with early on, you can build some bad habits and you need to watch out for safety stuff, where an experienced RO comes in handy.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

I like the idea but I work weekdays.

 

Have you tried joining the action shooting at the indoor range?

 

I only picked Mon and Tue being I have them off, well I also have Sundays off but there is usually something else going on that day anyway.

 

Yes I was at the last indoor match and plan on getting to the one this Friday also, the only problem is I get up the next morning at 0400 so I only get to shoot the first 2 stages. Enjoyed myself and looking forward to being a regular at them.

 

Harry

[hd2000fxdl 422]

I would encourage you to try the indoor matches. Also, be careful what you experiment with early on, you can build some bad habits and you need to watch out for safety stuff, where an experienced RO comes in handy.

 

 

Plan to be a fixture at the indoor matches, and learn from watching and talking to the folks there. I do know about bad habits, I used to teach Hang Gliding so I know the pitfalls of getting into bad habits. Another reason I was hoping to see other people interested in doing this, getting people of different levels and learning from one another.

 

Harry

[Brian B 2]

I would be up for doing some practices on Fridays if any one is interested. I can help instill lots of bad habits but I may be able to help as well.

 

Brian

[hd2000fxdl 422]

I would be up for doing some practices on Fridays if any one is interested. I can help instill lots of bad habits but I may be able to help as well.

 

Brian

 

Brian,

 

Let's see how many people are interested and what days and maybe we can see what we can do as a group that works for the majority of folks. I know the days I am free are not the prim days for people, but they are for the range being open and not crowded.

 

Some afternoons during the week may also work for me, I have other things I normally do and the family thing is also a concern, but as the days get longer it may work out that after 4PM may work. also for me.

 

Harry

[Motofan 10]

I'm in for thursday and fridays..during the day.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

I'm in for thursday and fridays..during the day.

 

I work the morning shift on those day but glad you bumped the thread back up. I see Brian is up for Friday but not sure what time of the day. Lets keep it going and see what we can work out over time. The first and third Fridays of the month may not be the best with the indoor shoot on those days.

 

Harry

[RecessedFilter 222]

I have 3 target stands and a ton of USPSA/IDPA cardboard buff targets, as well as pasters.

 

Right now I already do it by myself at my outdoor range (Easton) I am a member of. I set up my own stages, sometimes just like the ones at professional matches, and shoot away. I don't have a timer but it's still good at getting practice.

 

So yeah, I would be willing to bring my stands (hopefully getting the stuff to make 3 more) and some targets if we could set up a date.

my outdoor range either mondays or fridays and we could carpool so feel free to ask.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Sounds good for Mondays for me, and looks like some others might be good for Fridays.

 

I was hoping to get together at the OBRPC but if there is other ranges and we could guest each other in, or very cheap to join for the year, I have herd of some that were 40-60 bucks for the year. I also said if we get a nice enough group together I would pick up a Timer and set something up on may laptop to keep score.

 

Another thing I was looking at is Steel, I have seen a few steel packages for sale, 3/8" and 1/2" thick sets that would be good, I was thinking about picking up a set if there was interest. I have seen them for shipped to my door close to 230 bucks for an 8 piece set.

 

Harry

 

 

[mike 14]

mondays work for me have 6 stands uspsa targets and timer and a chrono if any one needs to check there loads.for power factor.mornings would be better.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

mondays work for me have 6 stands uspsa targets and timer and a chrono if any one needs to check there loads.for power factor.mornings would be better.

 

Sounds good Mike, Mornings on Monday work great for me also. Lets see how things go over the next week or 2 being we do have a few holidays this week and I have a busy end to April.

 

Maybe we can target (pun intended) for May 2nd as a kickoff day for now and see what happens over the next few weeks.

 

Would you be interested in shooting Steel, here is what I am thinking about picking up Steel , It's for Hi-Power Rifle but I think it's the closest in quality I can find on the cheap to what we use at the matches at the club.

 

Harry

[mike 14]

that sounds good as for steel you also have to factor in stands and brackets and posts,have to check with john from world class for package deals.may 1 sunday static steel if you want to go. shipping also gets expensive due to the weight.first or second monday in may is a good starting point,for our meets.

[Brian B 2]

I am off on fridays, that is the only day I am available but I can do morn or afternoon. I have 5 pieces of steel w/stands and 5 target stands already along with a timer.

 

Brian

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Sounds good Brian, I will start next week and see who, what days, and what time of the days work for people and take it from there, it doesn't say we can't have more than one of these or just one day a week, who knows if this or how it will catch on.

 

Will see how this thread goes for the next week and take it from there.

 

Harry

[Motofan 10]

Schedule change...monday and tuesday will be my new days off...lemme know.

 

I downloaded a timer from the droid marketplace that works real well..tested today. random start buzzer. Its called shot timer pro.has ipsc in logo

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Schedule change...monday and tuesday will be my new days off...lemme know.

 

I downloaded a timer from the droid marketplace that works real well..tested today. random start buzzer. Its called shot timer pro.has ipsc in logo

 

 

Well thats good, well as long as your old days off weren't Sat/Sun.

 

Will set a target date of May 2nd for now and see what the actual turnout might be and take it from there. Will talk more during the up coming week and set up tentative time and what what-not.

 

Just to put this out to the group. I am not sure how many of you know Mike Digennaro, but he does run classes. Here is a link to his web site Mike D, not sure what his availability is, he has a pretty full calender with the competitions he does. However if we can get enough people to have him do a class would you be interested.

Like I said, not sure what his schedule is but just getting a feel if we would be able to get enough people to get him to run a class for us, not even sure if he is available Mondays but I figured I put it out there to talk about.

 

Harry

[RecessedFilter 222]

I'd be down for a class with Mike D, why not...

 

May 2nd works for me.

 

I'd also be interested if we got a group together for Mike D's class.

[raz-0 1,259]

OK, I'm going to put on my responsible adult hat and chime in for a moment to try and avoid problems for the club or club members.

 

 

[EDITED FOR CLARITY]

 

Ok, I'm rewriting this due to questions I got asked in PM. I'll state it as what you should make sure NOT to do first.

 

1) Don't violate the guest policy. The club isn't keen on people making an end run around membership dues, and you can be tossed for it. Unless you are really abusing it, you likely won't get caught, and unless you are REALLY doing something abusive, you'll probably just be read the riot act and be put on probation. Additionally, the board has been looking into the specifics of our insurance, and what it covers outside of use of the facilities within the rules of the club

 

2) Don't run a business out of the club. We've had this happen before involving people running classes and charging money without the club's knowledge. From an insurance standpoint, it appears that was no different than a bunch of people sneaking onto the range to shoot, except that the guy putting it on is a member, and could make an even larger mess for the club as a whole. Beyond liability for safety, there's the whole issue of the liability for how you conduct your business. Beyond even that is the issue of you tying up club facilities and interfering with paying members trying to use the club legitimately. Do NOT use the range in this manner. It will not be tolerated if caught.

 

3) Don't hog the facilities. Remember, no more than one pit per member, no guests using a pit unattended, don't block access to areas you aren't using, and that you are obliged to give paying members a turn if the facilities get backed up (even if you are also a paying member, there's a rule about being polite in this regard. It's something like 30 minutes and let someone else have a turn.) These are not new things.

 

4) When practicing for things like USPSA, keep in mind that the general membership is NOT allowed the same leeway in using the pits that matches are. Unfortunately the board keeps changing it's mind about what is acceptable. Myself and a couple other people have been trying to get them to post a complete set of current range rules on the website and to commit to keeping them current and notifying the membership of changes. All I can tell you for sure at the moment is that outside of matches, bullets impacting the pit floors is a huge no-no. This means don't do things like park yourself at the end of a 25 yard pit, and put the targets three yards in front of you. Put the targets by the back berm, and move yourself further into the pit.

 

Those are the clear cut ones.

 

Then we run into the issue of are we allowed to run classes at the club. There are various things the range has been rented out for. A number of issues/questions got asked by the membership due to the behavior of one (at least) of these groups renting the range. Much of this came up around the time of a carbine class offered at OB with the board's knowledge, consent, and cooperation. This made people wonder if the club was doing things appropriately with regards to things like that as well. In attempting to answer these questions, it became clear that case 2) above is a real problem with regards to how the club is set up legally and insured. Also, it was unlcear if violating the guest policy may or may not affect liability insurance in addition to it simply undermining the clubs interest in having enough paying members to support the club. It also raised a significant question regarding our ability to host training at all, and the last I heard the board was in the process of trying to figure that out. Basically as I understood it, it turned out that our insurance policy, in order to be affordable, is more complicated than everyone assumed. The board was simply in the process of figuring out what they need to do to not put the club or people using the club legitimately at peril. Additionally, the board was discussing the issue of weather or not things like renting out the range serve the interests of the membership (i.e. does the revenue justify reducing access to facilities to paying members, etc.)

 

 

When I asked some board members about putting on a USPSA clinic/practice thing I was told they were unsure if the club could do something like that because of the stuff referenced above. That was many months ago. They may have an answer at this point. In addition, they were a bit iffy on dedicating resources to that purpose, but I think that was mostly due to the fact I was looking for a time slot with much more competition than a weekday during the day.

 

For a one off thing, just use some common sense in how you present what is going on, and make certain to adhere to the guest policy. If you want to do it regularly, talk to the board. Other than being on the slow side getting some things done, the OB board mostly is decent and tries to err on the side of everyone having fun.

[RecessedFilter 222]

I understand everything you're trying to say raz-o, but setting up targets and having fun shooting with a couple people could pose a problem?

 

Sorry but that sucks. I understand the money issues and the 'class' issues and all that, but what I said above, I don't see any problems with that. All you're doing is doing what you would normally do...set up targets to shoot at. Ok, so there might be a timer and a few other people involved, but no money is going around or other funny business.

 

I am not being rude, just don't understand that specific action.

[raz-0 1,259]

Hmm the newsletter just dropped, and there is a one pit one day special event, which is usually a training thing. So the board might actually have an answer. I'll have to ask at this weekends match.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

RAZ,

 

Thank you for the information, this is the exact reason I asked the question originally prior to posting anything here.

 

In regards to who would attend, I thought I did post Members of the OBRPC and I was also not able to guest people in and did not have any intentions to do that. I even have my Mother and Father visiting from AZ and told my father I will bring him to the club after my 6 months are up but for now it's a no can do, after all rules are rules.

 

As far as pits, I mentioned I would have like to use the far back pit just to be out of other members way and not to even come close to impacting anyone at all.

 

Now in regards to having an actual instructor there, that was just brought up to see if there might be some interest and I do know Mike D is holding a class at the club and/or has done so previously. I just assumed it was ok to at least see if we might be able to get get enough club members to make it worth Mike's time. I did notice on his web site that he mentions classes outside the schedule that is posted, I know you can't read or see my intentions as it is written here, but I had at no time thought I would try and set anything up officially without talking to the club officials. I also figured if there was enough interest and I spoke to Mike in passing he would have brought this up to me anyway.

 

Overall, I envisioned CLUB members getting together outside of all the other great club activities on off days and times that would promote SAFE and fun activities and advancement in Practical Shooting Disciplines.

 

In the end, I would see it that the club does have many great resources for the USPSA matches, but do understand it would be my and other club members who are interested who would supply our own target etc for this, and I myself do have intentions of purchasing a few things for not only myself but other who are interested. Also the way I am, other club members who saw what we were doing and were interested in joining would be VERY VERY welcome to join in.

 

If there is anything you have concerns about or whatever you would like to mention please do, I am in here often on my work days and Pm's are just fine as well as my Email from here. If you like you can even ask me my phone number and we can talk more if you like. I would really like to see something like this grow legs and be a success and benefit to any and all members but don't want to risk anything at all for myself, other members or the club.

 

Thank you,

Harry

[Brian B 2]

For anyone that is interested, I took a class with Mike D years ago. I went from C class to Master within a year of that class. I soaked up everything he said and did and I dryfired almost everyday.

 

I am sure anyone could benefit from a class with Mike.

 

Brian

[SSlav 14]

I think if:

 

1. This is limited to club members only.

2. Some experienced shooters/ROs are there to make sure that safety rules are being ahered to.

 

 

It should be alright.

[raz-0 1,259]

I understand everything you're trying to say raz-o, but setting up targets and having fun shooting with a couple people could pose a problem?

 

Sorry but that sucks. I understand the money issues and the 'class' issues and all that, but what I said above, I don't see any problems with that. All you're doing is doing what you would normally do...set up targets to shoot at. Ok, so there might be a timer and a few other people involved, but no money is going around or other funny business.

 

I am not being rude, just don't understand that specific action.

 

No, that is not what I am saying.

 

A bunch of club members get together and practice, as long as you are safe, there are no issues. Being a member has certain benefits, among them is the ability to use the facilities (when available) 24-7 for the indoor and 9am to dusk for the outdoor. Getting the definition of what the board offically considers safe and sane is the hard part. I've been trying to get a good set up current range rules posted. I think the only way it is going to happen is for me to volunteer for a giant hunk of work and still browbeat the board into discussing it more than a few times till they agree that they agree. The MAJOR issue on the outdoor range is any behavior that can have a bullet leave the range, either as a directly fired projectile or as a ricochet. So for example that dumbass who takes his rifle to the 100 yard range, and then decides to shoot pistol targets that are 2 feet high 21 feet from the firing line? Don't be that dumbass. Those rounds skip off the floor and leave the range.

 

You go out with a couple non club member buddies and shoot a few times a year, no there's no real problem as long as you are safe. The rules/charter are written to permit that. But those rule limit the number of guests you can have at a time, and how many times a particular guest can visit the club as a guest.

 

You set up targets twice a week every week and provide access to a stream of non-dues paying people? You are undermining the ability of the club to drum up members by providing a free alternative. Don't expect that to not cause a problem. If you want to have lots of non members show up and use club facilities regularly, you set up a regular event with the board and charge people showing up so that participating in that generates funds for the club rather than robs them of casual members that are an important element of keeping the club financially viable.

 

On top of that, when I checked into doing such a thing several months ago, the board was looking into details of their insurance because it was unclear if they had been conducting business in a manner for some events that negatively affected our coverage with regards to those types of events. Not that it couldn't cover it, but there was probably a right way and a wrong way to go about it and they were looking at what the answer was to make sure we are doing it the right way. This was in theory something that they were looking at for Mike D's classes, CCW qualification classes, and 3rd party instruction and practice stuff not presented by a club member (i.e. Mike D and the guy doing the CCW classes are members and are likely to be easier to sort out by just declaring them events, event chairpersons, and then the details are in money handling). I was told we don't know if it could be done at the time. Seeing that Mike D is back on the schedule, they may have come to a conclusion. I didn't get time to ask over the weekend as i had to build a stage and scoot to do family stuff.

 

Additionally, if the guest policy says max 2 guests per member at a time, and you have 4, if those other 2 are considered trespassers, I could foresee that causing some issues legally if someone got hurt. Remember, when you go breaking some of the basic club rules, you may be taking additional liability on yourself. No matter how much research we do ahead of time, it will probably take dueling lawyers to figure out how much. By adhering to the rules, you likely dig yourself the shallowest hole if things go badly. The more regular your "event" the more likely you are to be expected to know what you are doing.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Hey Raz,

 

Do you go to the Friday indoor matches??

 

If so let me know, I will be at the first one next month and would like to meet with you and talk a little more about this. Not sure what your roll in the club is, but from some of the comments I see you are are just looking out for the best interest of the club and I appreciate that. Like I said I am new, don't want to step on toes and do something that could be frowned upon either by letter of the rules or by perception even if it is allowed.

 

You seem to also have had some of the same thoughts or at least something close to what I am trying to do, so I think you and I should at least share ideas. Also like I said I posted this only after talking to the club president and asking him if something like this for club members was allowed.

 

Either way, we can talk at the next Friday indoor match. club meeting or I can give you my contact information here. Let me know what would be best.

 

Harry

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Hey if there were any club members going to practice today, have a good time, I just got roped into working today and tomorrow and the following week on Sunday and Monday and Tuesday, so I'm out for for a few weeks. Co worker is in the hospital.

 

I do plan on being out there on the 15th, in the mean time, I am going to try and make up some home made target stands and get some more cardboard from Costco to make up targets, doubt I will have any steel by them, but you never know. Will post up some pic's if I can find the time of what I make up when I finish.

 

Harry

[raz-0 1,259]

 

If there is anything you have concerns about or whatever you would like to mention please do, I am in here often on my work days and Pm's are just fine as well as my Email from here. If you like you can even ask me my phone number and we can talk more if you like. I would really like to see something like this grow legs and be a success and benefit to any and all members but don't want to risk anything at all for myself, other members or the club.

 

Thank you,

Harry

 

 

It soudns like you aren't planning anything stupid. Only thing I would add to above is make sure you leave at least one car parked out on the range where anyone showing up can see that there is a car, and now person on pit 6 or pit 7 and might be able to figure out the pistol pits are in uses and subsequently not try shooting form 100 yards in pit 6 (which is now against the rules but didn't used ot be), and trap you back there in an unsafe manner.

[Motofan 10]

Will be there tommorrow with my new m&p 15 22