Testing out Body Armor

[AnthonyG 36]

For the past couple of years in my spare time I have been working on paper some body armor concepts and designs, Its part of the reason I went for my FID and PP's. In the next month or so I hope to be working on producing one of the prototypes, I am not even sure if financially I will be able to go through with it. My question is though if I do finish this prototype where would I be able to test it would it be hard to get a range to allow me to test this, Or should I try to test this out of state. Thanks in advance for any advice.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

If I were you, I'd let somebody else wear it for the tests.

[sasha45acp 7]

If it's a good idea and you can produce a prototype you can try a Kickstarter funding.

[Anselmo 87]

For the past couple of years in my spare time I have been working on paper some body armor concepts and designs, Its part of the reason I went for my FID and PP's. In the next month or so I hope to be working on producing one of the prototypes, I am not even sure if financially I will be able to go through with it. My question is though if I do finish this prototype where would I be able to test it would it be hard to get a range to allow me to test this, Or should I try to test this out of state. Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

You need to develop (or copy someone else's) a written testing protocol. Write down what you're going to do, carry it out, and write down the findings.

[AnthonyG 36]

You need to develop (or copy someone else's) a written testing protocol. Write down what you're going to do, carry it out, and write down the findings.

 

I have bought some out of date vests to disassemble and look at construction already, the thing is what I am designing is quite a twist on conventional vests . I will see what kind of testing protocol the military does on vests and other third party labs and try to work around that once and if I get a prototype out.

[Anselmo 87]

Cool. One of the first things people will ask is "what was the testing methodology?". I know it's not the fun part of designing/inventing but it's necessary.

 

I assume there are certain criteria the vest must pass in order to be viable? Are those parameters hard to measure? I'm thinking a user requirement of "must withstand a .45 ACP fired from a 4" barrel at 10 yards" but how to measure withstand? Do you need to farm this type of testing out to a 3rd party to demonstrate non-bias to your potential investors. Sound like lawyers and CDAs.

 

Good luck!

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Wow, I'd love to see what the end product of this would be. If you finish this, keep us posted.

[vjf915 456]

Wow, I'd love to see what the end product of this would be. If you finish this, keep us posted.

Agreed.

[AnthonyG 36]

Cool. One of the first things people will ask is "what was the testing methodology?". I know it's not the fun part of designing/inventing but it's necessary.

 

I assume there are certain criteria the vest must pass in order to be viable? Are those parameters hard to measure? I'm thinking a user requirement of "must withstand a .45 ACP fired from a 4" barrel at 10 yards" but how to measure withstand? Do you need to farm this type of testing out to a 3rd party to demonstrate non-bias to your potential investors. Sound like lawyers and CDAs.

 

Good luck!

 

Yeah there's a whole "check list" of requirements and distances it has to with stand without penetration in order to meet the different ballistic ratings.I want to make sure that it has bullet stopping abilities or potential before getting more in-depth with the tests. If it holds up in raw range tests I will pay to ship it out to a lab and run it through the paces or have some of the forum members bring out their different firearms needed to run the protocol.

[vjf915 456]

I would most certainly bring some of my guns out to help test!!

[SpecialK 193]

I tested body armor once before...

 

 

 

[djg0770 481]

I'm going to assume you have already read/researched the following:

 

http://www.dodig.mil/Inspections/IE/Reports/FINAL%20REPORT-%20DoD%20Testing%20Requirements%20for%20Body%20Armor-Reduced.pdf

http://www.nij.gov/topics/technology/body-armor/standards-testing.htm

http://www.fas.org/ota/reports/9229.pdf

http://ts.nist.gov/standards/scopes/pba.htm

 

Your approach seems sound in that you are testing in house before spending dollar one on outside testing. Ultimately, you will need outside testing to even be considered a player in the field. If your idea is revolutionary, your product may skyrocket, or someone may offer to buy you out.

 

Consider that if your product goes "platinum", what protections will you have in place? Will you be patented in order that your product is protected for a period of time (17 yrs I think)? Or is your product so revolutionary that you will guard your secrets yourself and not patent it because no one else will be able to determine your unique method of construction, and you don't want them to be able to compete with you after your patent expires?

 

If you have a "partner" consider that when businesses skyrocket that partnerships often go kaboom. What protections have you put in place for that? When it comes to money and power, even "good people" are corruptible.

[AnthonyG 36]

I'm going to assume you have already read/researched the following:

 

http://www.dodig.mil/Inspections/IE/Reports/FINAL%20REPORT-%20DoD%20Testing%20Requirements%20for%20Body%20Armor-Reduced.pdf

http://www.nij.gov/topics/technology/body-armor/standards-testing.htm

http://www.fas.org/ota/reports/9229.pdf

http://ts.nist.gov/standards/scopes/pba.htm

 

Your approach seems sound in that you are testing in house before spending dollar one on outside testing. Ultimately, you will need outside testing to even be considered a player in the field. If your idea is revolutionary, your product may skyrocket, or someone may offer to buy you out.

 

Consider that if your product goes "platinum", what protections will you have in place? Will you be patented in order that your product is protected for a period of time (17 yrs I think)? Or is your product so revolutionary that you will guard your secrets yourself and not patent it because no one else will be able to determine your unique method of construction, and you don't want them to be able to compete with you after your patent expires?

 

If you have a "partner" consider that when businesses skyrocket that partnerships often go kaboom. What protections have you put in place for that? When it comes to money and power, even "good people" are corruptible.

 

After I run the ballistic tests on it,if the armor isn't defeated or meets my expectations I will file for patent on the basic design if it fails but I know how to fix the issues I will re engineer test and then file for patent.I will then find a lab to run the tests, a few labs I found do the tests for around 300 dollars I will meet with them sign a agreement in order to test my armor. If it all works out and the armor gets certified I will look into production.Most likely I will not sell off my armor to any company because I want to make sure if this can really save lives it going to get to those that need it and I will make sure it does myself.I also have other designs for different forms of armor so selling it off would make developing the next armors more complicated since someone would take ownership of the original armor. I wont be making any partnerships most likely, I will work with either investors to manufacture the armor myself or I will find a plant that can do it for me and do some form of profit sharing. Thanks for the info though you brought up some things I forgot to consider.

[AnthonyG 36]

I tested body armor once before...

 

 

 

 

Lol the only problem with testing on a watermelon is you cant gauge the shock trauma that plate may have transferred to the melon. I assume that was for penetration purpose only but a watermelon is so thick it could take shocks and not break but a humans lungs and heart would claps from that level of energy. That is one of the big problems with armor in general is the armor not only has to stop the bullet it needs to absorb its energy. I don't remember the numbers but a portion of deaths while wearing body armor, the bullet doesn't penetrate the armor but the force crushes the chest cavity or organs under that vest.

[vjf915 456]

NJGF discount?!?! Extra discount for those who help you test the armor?

[AnthonyG 36]

NJGF discount?!?! Extra discount for those who help you test the armor?

Of course! anyone that helps will get them at cost if it all pans out.

[Anselmo 87]

After I run the ballistic tests on it,if the armor isn't defeated or meets my expectations I will file for patent on the basic design if it fails but I know how to fix the issues I will re engineer test and then file for patent.I will then find a lab to run the tests, a few labs I found do the tests for around 300 dollars I will meet with them sign a agreement in order to test my armor. If it all works out and the armor gets certified I will look into production.Most likely I will not sell off my armor to any company because I want to make sure if this can really save lives it going to get to those that need it and I will make sure it does myself.I also have other designs for different forms of armor so selling it off would make developing the next armors more complicated since someone would take ownership of the original armor. I wont be making any partnerships most likely, I will work with either investors to manufacture the armor myself or I will find a plant that can do it for me and do some form of profit sharing. Thanks for the info though you brought up some things I forgot to consider.

 

Investors often want a voice in controlling and direction. Being an inventor and being able to run the company are two different skill sets. The business aspect might prove more challenging than the engineering side of things.

 

My company was looking for investors. The investors wanted a few seats on our board of directors.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I'd love to see what your working on, but I understand the lawyers and legality crap. If you need help or some shooters, I'm sure you'll find plenty here.

[vjf915 456]

Of course! anyone that helps will get them at cost if it all pans out.

Amazingly generous!! For real though, I would be willing to help just for the hell of it, I think it would be fun.

[AnthonyG 36]

Investors often want a voice in controlling and direction. Being an inventor and being able to run the company are two different skill sets. The business aspect might prove more challenging than the engineering side of things.

 

My company was looking for investors. The investors wanted a few seats on our board of directors.

Yes I totally agree inventing and running a company are very different, luckily my family made me a business runner with our family business first before I decided to tinker and make things. I have business running skills but defense and armor industry have very different variables then what my families business works off of. It should be interesting to say the least if it all pans out.

[AnthonyG 36]

I'd love to see what your working on, but I understand the lawyers and legality crap. If you need help or some shooters, I'm sure you'll find plenty here.

 

 

Amazingly generous!! For real though, I would be willing to help just for the hell of it, I think it would be fun.

 

 

Yeah I am gonna need a couple of people with all different types of rifles and handguns, like I have mentioned before I have a strong feeling most handguns will not defeat this armor cause I am sort of over engineering it on the first go. What I can tell you about the armor is and I am sure you guys already know this but most armors are one or two parts either strictly Kevlar or Ceramic plate or both. My armor is 4 different materials and each material will handle a specific type of weapon for example bird shot will hopefully be stopped in the first material, buckshot may go into the second material pistol rounds should stop at the second material. Slugs should make it to third material and stop,rifle/ high powered rounds should god willing stop on the 4th material. If after the first round of tests there is some promise in what I have made I will get a patent going and I will disclose in depth to all those that helped me,since I will owe it to you guys for helping but acourse an agreement will have to be signed to protect what I made.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

I can only offer help with 410 22LR 380 9 40 30-30 and 7.62x54R.

 

Harry

 

 

[vjf915 456]

I call dibs on 7.62x39, 9mm, and can bring a 22-250.

[KpdPipes 388]

I have bought some out of date vests to disassemble and look at construction already, the thing is what I am designing is quite a twist on conventional vests . I will see what kind of testing protocol the military does on vests and other third party labs and try to work around that once and if I get a prototype out.

 

 

Look up "NIJ Testing Protocols" they should be published, and it's the NIJ (National institute for Justice) That sets the standards for Bullet-resistant and Ballistic protection products...at least for the LE end of things. Military is different.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

I can bring bring 32acp, 9x18 makarov, 9x19mm, .38, .45 ACP, .500 S&W magnum, 7.62x25, 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, 7.62x51/.308, 30-06, 7.5x55 swiss, 5.45x39, 8mm mauser/7.92x57, 12ga, 20ga, .22lr and probably some others I forgot lol

[AnthonyG 36]

Crap, I am going to have to make quite a few sets to test all these different rounds, I may make smaller sample sections maybe 6"x6" squares just to get feel of whats working and whats not, it will be cheaper and I can make that faster then a bunch of full size cores. Ill keep you guys posted on progress and when Ill have something for you guys to shoot.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I'd love for your idea to work and for it to go big! Good luck bro, I'll be watching this.

[vjf915 456]

Crap, I am going to have to make quite a few sets to test all these different rounds, I may make smaller sample sections maybe 6"x6" squares just to get feel of whats working and whats not, it will be cheaper and I can make that faster then a bunch of full size cores. Ill keep you guys posted on progress and when Ill have something for you guys to shoot.

Awesome, this is really cool. Don't give out the spots for my calibers!!

[KpdPipes 388]

Crap, I am going to have to make quite a few sets to test all these different rounds, I may make smaller sample sections maybe 6"x6" squares just to get feel of whats working and whats not, it will be cheaper and I can make that faster then a bunch of full size cores. Ill keep you guys posted on progress and when Ill have something for you guys to shoot.

 

 

Anthony, one thing you need to remember as well that it isnt ALL about penetration, a HUGE part of the equation is the Distribution of force from the impact point. Even if you stop the projectile 100% from openetrating, if there is still a point source of impact trauma it can be almost as damaging to the underlying tissues.

[chris327 30]

Anthony another thing to consider which I'm sure you have is thickness and weight. I'm sure you considered this. Also I can bring some pistols and rifles if needed. one that wasn't mentioned 7mm rem magnum.