Marine tells it like it is

[nred 5]

That's a real good question man. But kicking their a$$es isn't the answer.

And it absolutely IS a first amendment issue. From what i understand they are not trespassing because the park they are sleeping in allows it. The food is donated too. But rest assure that the numbers will drop once free meals dry up.

Well if you can't kick their a$$es, then maybe threaten them with a hot shower and clean clothes.

[KpdPipes 388]

What a surprise, our LEO members think the guy is a nutcase.

 

Thanks for proving the "us vs. them mentality" to be true, guys.

Wow..and Anti-cop post from you..i am shocked.shocked i say

[KpdPipes 388]

At first i thought this guy may have been a unstable vet, then i thought he was just hitting the bottle. Now i just think he shamed his uniform by using it as a teflon suit.What do you think would've happened to him if he was in jeans and a t-shirt?

He'd still be ignored and laughed at. NYPD is actually pretty good at the Protest thing, they handle them ALL the time..mostly smaller than this but some a hell of a lot bigger. What the "Oh Teh Noes The cops are a bunch of JBT's" types fail to understand is that 99.9999% of the time when they DO go hats and bats, it's in response to a protester starting the ball rolling..in the case of the First Video, One hippy gets into one of the cop's personal space and touched his weapon. Game On..NOW they call to disperse and when the OWS don't the big honkin OC canisters come out to play. Same on the Bridge..there was NO ISSUE when they stayed on the walkway. ONLY When the unwashed asshats decided they were going to go onto the roadway did they get cleared and arrests made. I've done more than a few protest details over the years, and the formula remains the same..let them do what they want, say what they want...UNTIL the violate the law... then it's game over. Whether it's Political, Union, or whatever.

[Soju 153]

I am disappointed by a number of posts in this thread. With so much on this forum about our 2nd Amendment rights, and how NJ is infringing on that, I would think that some of you would have a little more humility.

 

I am in no way condoning the actions of those trying to start something, of those who try and push the police and back peddle when it doesn't work out the way the thought, or those who do things in a violent or otherwise illegal manner. I am also not saying that from what I saw, the police handled things badly. I think from the video shown, they did a great job.

 

Also there is a way to get your point across, regardless if he was 1000% wrong or 1000% right, the tone and manner that he took to get his point across wasn't done the right way. The way he did this was as Paul said, could be construed as inciting a riot.

 

I am not even going to touch the 1st Amendment issues with this (4 things in it actually), but answer me this. Just what would have been the right way to get his point across? Maybe a sit down over coffee? Seriously? I am struggling to find a way other then what he did that would have gotten his point across in any capacity in that situation. So if you know, please do tell.

 

Second, enticing a riot? Really? Maybe if he was yelling some NWA "#^$@ the police" I'd buy that. But he was promoting NOT using violence.

 

If he had a problem with what the police had done, he can ask them for their names and badge numbers and go to the department and then city hall.

 

Sure he could have. But he was making a point. That wouldn't have made his point clear to anybody but himself. Not to mention the total lack of effectiveness it would have. But I digress. If I could just go up and ask for all the officers names and badge numbers, or business cards that I saw hurting people, and they would just willingly give them up, then there probably wouldn't be officers beating people. So good luck with that one working out.

 

I totally agree. I give those cops a ton of credit for not over reacting and diffusing a potential situation. I think it sucks for the cops, i think it suck for the protesters that got a beat down. That's why i said the whole thing is just sad.

 

Agreed.

 

A bit of a drama queen, isn't he?

 

Cool man. Solid argument straight out of the "inept way to win an argument" school. First thing you do is make a petty insult, then end it with a rhetoric question. Then say no more. Argument over right?

 

Hope I got them one right. It has been a while.

 

This guy is (unfortunatly) tainted goods. First the cammy uniform isnt supposed to worn in public not to mention he's technically out of uniform in its condition. Also the facial hair is a no-go unless he's going special ops. Cops should know better and get him help.

 

I thought it was pretty clear he was no longer serving. But no matter, you would still be wrong about the bold portion. So your point doesn't stand anyways.

 

What do you think would've happened to him if he was in jeans and a t-shirt?

 

It probably wouldn't have gone very well for him!

[hd2000fxdl 422]

I am not even going to touch the 1st Amendment issues with this (4 things in it actually), but answer me this. Just what would have been the right way to get his point across? Maybe a sit down over coffee? Seriously? I am struggling to find a way other then what he did that would have gotten his point across in any capacity in that situation. So if you know, please do tell.

 

Second, enticing a riot? Really? Maybe if he was yelling some NWA "#^$@ the police" I'd buy that. But he was promoting NOT using violence.

 

 

Who said anything about he is not able to speak his mind, I sure know I didn't imply that at all, I did however say that the tone and the way he was trying to get his point across was not done in a way that would appeal to most people. Voicing an opinion so people could hear and get to your point, back it up with some facts, move on to your next point, and being your not speaking to a audience so to speak yes you can repeat yourself. However to scream how a little brat would over and over repeating the same thing until they get there way isn't the most effective approach.

 

Now the enticing a riot comment is more along the lines taking into account the mood of the crowd, after the amount of time many of them have been out there, add in the fact that tempers are probably a lot shorter for many of them, you have a powder keg ready to blow. Now if this way day 1 it might be different, but when this guy keeps going like the guy who you just took their keys away from at the bar and doesn't agree with you that they can't drive.

 

Hey maybe I'm wrong, but thats how I see it, and like I said, everyone there isn't thinking with 100% of there best reasoning powers as they would normally after being in those conditions for this long.

 

Harry

[KpdPipes 388]

 

 

I thought it was pretty clear he was no longer serving. But no matter, you would still be wrong about the bold portion. So your point doesn't stand anyways.

 

 

 

 

Even if he IS out of Contract, His dishcarge status CAN be changed..there's more than one former Marine who has had their Dishcarge status changed to :Less then honorable/general because of protesting in parts of their Uniform if they are still IRR....and if he's served in the current conflict even if he's dishcarged, he's more than likely IRR unless he's a medical or already General/LTH

[Soju 153]

Who said anything about he is not able to speak his mind, I sure know I didn't imply that at all, I did however say that the tone and the way he was trying to get his point across was not done in a way that would appeal to most people. Voicing an opinion so people could hear and get to your point, back it up with some facts, move on to your next point, and being your not speaking to a audience so to speak yes you can repeat yourself. However to scream how a little brat would over and over repeating the same thing until they get there way isn't the most effective approach.

 

Now the enticing a riot comment is more along the lines taking into account the mood of the crowd, after the amount of time many of them have been out there, add in the fact that tempers are probably a lot shorter for many of them, you have a powder keg ready to blow. Now if this way day 1 it might be different, but when this guy keeps going like the guy who you just took their keys away from at the bar and doesn't agree with you that they can't drive.

 

Hey maybe I'm wrong, but thats how I see it, and like I said, everyone there isn't thinking with 100% of there best reasoning powers as they would normally after being in those conditions for this long.

 

Harry

 

I will attempt to make this clear before I respond in order to avoid my post being misinterpreted. I respect your opinion however don't agree. With that said...

 

(Each paragraph referring to the bold portions respectively.)

 

Now you may not have meant it, but you did imply it. By saying that the way he was conducting himself was wrong, you are implying he shouldn't have been saying anything. Furthermore, by saying it could be viewed as "inciting a riot", you implied he should have been stopped. Both those things are IMO, a violation of the 1st Amendment. Now again, that might not have been what you were saying, or what you meant, but that is what I implied, or in other words, what you were implying.

 

If you didn't watch the second clip, the interview one, I encourage you to do so. He explains what his intentions were a bit better. I certainly didn't think he was saying that in hopes that he would magically get his way as you are 'implying'. He was making a point (to both the police and the crowd), and he did so very effectively. To clarify what I mean by effectively, a cite the second video as evidence, as well as the fact that this thread was started based on is actions. It garnered media attention. That I would say is effective, though you may disagree.

 

I don't see it that way. I guess I don't actually understand the relevance of that statement. How does your particular mood that particular day make any difference in the point you are trying to make UNLESS your actions show differently? It is actually impossible. Only the way you act can have an effect.

 

Even if he IS out of Contract, His dishcarge status CAN be changed..there's more than one former Marine who has had their Dishcarge status changed to :Less then honorable/general because of protesting in parts of their Uniform if they are still IRR....and if he's served in the current conflict even if he's dishcarged, he's more than likely IRR unless he's a medical or already General/LTH

 

Sure, I am not necessarily disagreeing with you. I was quoting someone else, refering to something else they said. That though doesn't have much to do with what I said or was talking about though...

[NickC 23]

<standing slow clap> for Bonesinium

[bulpup 98]

This protest is so tame it is shocking we are even talking about any of this.

 

A guy yelling at cops is likely a daily occurance in the city even without a protest.. The only thing i see as an over reaction is calling everything police brutality.

 

I hope this group doesn't gethoodwinked into making it about cop hatred. They have a problem with a lot of things and the city has let their voices be heard around the world, disparate as it is..

[MarkWVU02 47]

I am disappointed by a number of posts in this thread. With so much on this forum about our 2nd Amendment rights, and how NJ is infringing on that, I would think that some of you would have a little more humility.

 

I am in no way condoning the actions of those trying to start something, of those who try and push the police and back peddle when it doesn't work out the way the thought, or those who do things in a violent or otherwise illegal manner. I am also not saying that from what I saw, the police handled things badly. I think from the video shown, they did a great job.

 

 

 

I am not even going to touch the 1st Amendment issues with this (4 things in it actually), but answer me this. Just what would have been the right way to get his point across? Maybe a sit down over coffee? Seriously? I am struggling to find a way other then what he did that would have gotten his point across in any capacity in that situation. So if you know, please do tell.

 

Second, enticing a riot? Really? Maybe if he was yelling some NWA "#^$@ the police" I'd buy that. But he was promoting NOT using violence.

 

 

 

Sure he could have. But he was making a point. That wouldn't have made his point clear to anybody but himself. Not to mention the total lack of effectiveness it would have. But I digress. If I could just go up and ask for all the officers names and badge numbers, or business cards that I saw hurting people, and they would just willingly give them up, then there probably wouldn't be officers beating people. So good luck with that one working out.

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

 

Cool man. Solid argument straight out of the "inept way to win an argument" school. First thing you do is make a petty insult, then end it with a rhetoric question. Then say no more. Argument over right?

 

Hope I got them one right. It has been a while.

 

 

 

I thought it was pretty clear he was no longer serving. But no matter, you would still be wrong about the bold portion. So your point doesn't stand anyways.

 

 

 

It probably wouldn't have gone very well for him!

 

 

The sad part is our media only shows the dirty hippies or punk anarchists...there are a lot of good people there with great ideas...college grads that can't find jobs...people who have seen their jobs outsourced to china...middle class citizens fed up with barely scraping by while Wall Street and Bank executives land multi-million dollar bonuses...while BP racks up record profits, messes up the gulf ecosystem, and then gets huge tax breaks...it's a shame people can't see this...it's also a shame people bash the protestors for exercising their constitutional rights...yet we sit on a computer defending one of those rights. everyday.

[nred 5]

Cool man. Solid argument straight out of the "inept way to win an argument" school. First thing you do is make a petty insult, then end it with a rhetoric question. Then say no more. Argument over right?

I wasn't trying to win anything. I was just pointing out the way he did his thing.

 

That particular video has over 1 million hits, and he got his message on TV so, he wins.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

I will attempt to make this clear before I respond in order to avoid my post being misinterpreted. I respect your opinion however don't agree. With that said...

 

How about you read my first post again, while I may have gone off on a tangent a little bit afterwords, the point I was making is no different than what I posted in my first post.

 

Basically, I never said he wasn't free to say what he said, it was the way he said it, would you consider that to be a rational tone that really get a group of people to rally behind what he was saying.

 

Really ask yourself if you were just walking down the street minding your own business with your OL and you saw someone on the other side of the street screaming at the crowd around him and all the officers around him. If you didn't just keep going you would probably be there watching, and answer truthfully, would it to hear what point he was trying to make, or would it to be waiting to see what happens next.

 

Hey I don't have a dog in the fight, like I said right or wrong doesn't matter to me, my original comment was that in the manner he tried to get people to listen to him and his tone probably didn't immediately instill that I'm the voice of reason and you should listen to me

 

Harry

[NickC 23]

I'd like to just say that regardless of how we all feel about this topic, I'm sure we can all agree Ray Ray is a crazy SOB.

 

Does this count? Maybe for Steph!

 

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Nick, that was just cruel and unusual man.... But you are right, he is a nut

 

HArry

[NickC 23]

Nick, that was just cruel and unusual man.... But you are right, he is a nut

 

HArry

Haha, it's like a Ray Ray sorbet. It purpose was to cleanse the palet. It needed to be done.

[Soju 153]

How about you read my first post again, while I may have gone off on a tangent a little bit afterwords, the point I was making is no different than what I posted in my first post.

 

Ok then, I guess I'm going to have to be more direct, because I've read your post multiple times now. What exactly is your point? I thought I was clear before, but now I am just confused.

 

Basically, I never said he wasn't free to say what he said, it was the way he said it, would you consider that to be a rational tone that really get a group of people to rally behind what he was saying.

 

Okay, I'll answer. Yes and yes. In fact, he did get a group of people to rally behind what he was saying, so I'm surprised you are even asking.

 

Really ask yourself if you were just walking down the street minding your own business with your OL and you saw someone on the other side of the street screaming at the crowd around him and all the officers around him. If you didn't just keep going you would probably be there watching, and answer truthfully, would it to hear what point he was trying to make, or would it to be waiting to see what happens next.

 

Well I wasn't there, and that isn't what happened, so it is fairly irrelevant. But you know what, I'll play anyways.

 

If I was walking down the street, and that was happening, I would probably ask someone what was going on. If they told me he was upset because he witness the police hurting non violent people, I would probably to both. So what point are you trying to make? You keep going around things and to be quite honest, confusing me. I thought you were saying that you didn't like the way he was handling himself, but understand his right to do so. Now I think otherwise.

 

Hey I don't have a dog in the fight, like I said right or wrong doesn't matter to me, my original comment was that in the manner he tried to get people to listen to him and his tone probably didn't immediately instill that I'm the voice of reason and you should listen to me

 

Harry

 

It appears you do have a dog in this fight or you wouldn't be trying to debate me.

 

Edit: Crap, I missed the last couple of posts! Sorry!!

 

BTW, is that a slimmed down Farva from Super Troopers?

Edited October 20, 2011 by Bonesinium

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Haha, it's like a Ray Ray sorbet. It purpose was to cleanse the palet. It needed to be done.

 

Nice job Nick, now get out and shoot the steel match on the 5th of next month, I hope to be shooting the GSG and CZ for that match. If your not set up for it yet, I'll have an extra gun and mags for you to use.

 

Harry

[NickC 23]

Nice job Nick, now get out and shoot the steel match on the 5th of next month, I hope to be shooting the GSG and CZ for that match. If your not set up for it yet, I'll have an extra gun and mags for you to use.

 

Harry

 

Seriously? You're awesome! Hopefully i'll have my sig by then but either way i'll definitely take you up on that offer.

[bulpup 98]

Haha, it's like a Ray Ray sorbet.

[NFRs2000NYC 7]

The Marine is a moron. He fails to distinguish the duties of armed forces and police. Just because he is a marine and loud, does not make him any less of an asshat than the protesters.