Gun for Hire in Popular Mechanics...

[DevsAdvocate 112]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/weapons/a-day-of-intense-force-on-force-handgun-training

 

It's nice to see some local vendors getting acknowledgement in a national publication like PM.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

That's a good article!

[Malsua 1,422]

Sigh.

 

New Jersey does not have a so-called castle law that allows property owners to defend their homes; the law requires owners to leave without shooting if there is a way out and no other family members are endangered

 

Anyone wish to write the author and correct him?

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Sigh.

 

 

 

Anyone wish to write the author and correct him?

 

Well... we do have a 'castle law', but if every shooting goes before a Grand Jury, then what's the point? You still need to lawyer up...

[this_is_nascar 162]

Definately a good read, however I now have a question.

 

Plus, I shot an unarmed man in New Jersey. Geography matters in home invasion shoot-outs, and a smart gun owner knows the laws that govern the state where he lives. "Every bullet you fire comes with a lawyer attached," Sente says. New Jersey does not have a so-called castle law that allows property owners to defend their homes; the law requires owners to leave without shooting if there is a way out and no other family members are endangered. In a castle law state, like Ohio, trespassers can be shot just for being there. If you own a gun, make sure to check use-of-force laws on your state attorney general's website.

 

 

Is this true? You mean to tell me that you're not allowed to protect your home and property in NJ? If a bad-guy enters your home through the front-door and you can can get out via the backdoor, you must take that route and not stay and defend your property?

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Definately a good read, however I now have a question.

 

Plus, I shot an unarmed man in New Jersey. Geography matters in home invasion shoot-outs, and a smart gun owner knows the laws that govern the state where he lives. "Every bullet you fire comes with a lawyer attached," Sente says. New Jersey does not have a so-called castle law that allows property owners to defend their homes; the law requires owners to leave without shooting if there is a way out and no other family members are endangered. In a castle law state, like Ohio, trespassers can be shot just for being there. If you own a gun, make sure to check use-of-force laws on your state attorney general's website.

 

 

Is this true? You mean to tell me that you're not allowed to protect your home and property in NJ? If a bad-guy enters your home through the front-door and you can can get out via the backdoor, you must take that route and not stay and defend your property?

 

You're allowed to... but it will cost you...

[this_is_nascar 162]

I haven't read these as of yet, but I see a couple Bills listed that are related. I don't know if they're actual laws at this time or not.

 

House Bill A198

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2010/Bills/A0500/198_I1.PDF

 

House Bill A421

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2010/Bills/A0500/421_I1.PDF

 

House Bill S555

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2010/Bills/S1000/555_I1.PDF

 

House Bill S1628

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2010/Bills/S2000/1628_I1.PDF

[Malsua 1,422]

 

 

Is this true? You mean to tell me that you're not allowed to protect your home and property in NJ? If a bad-guy enters your home through the front-door and you can can get out via the backdoor, you must take that route and not stay and defend your property?

 

No, it is not true. You may "meet the assailant at the threshold of the home and prevent him from entering by any means,". State v Martinez.

 

http://nj.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19890113_0041569.nj.htm/qx

 

We are satisfied, however, that the trial court failed to properly instruct the jury with respect to an exception to the duty to retreat. Defendant contends that, in its instruction to the jury, the trial court should have explained not only that one has no duty to retreat from one's dwelling, but that a "dwelling" encompasses a doorway, threshold, porch or other similar appurtenance.

[Bob B 103]

Anyone who claims that NJ has a functional castle doctrine is simply mistaken. Without criminal and civil immunity, whatever the law says is meaningless.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Anyone who claims that NJ has a functional castle doctrine is simply mistaken. Without criminal and civil immunity, whatever the law says is meaningless.

 

Hence my assertion that 'yes, you can use force to defend your home' with the caveat that 'it will cost you'.

[Bob B 103]

Hence my assertion that 'yes, you can use force to defend your home' with the caveat that 'it will cost you'.

 

Yup.

[gunforhire 826]

Evan Nappen and my Detective Instructor Mac will be addressing this also soon in a video or a radio show to cover both sides of the argument. What NJ laws say's and how our judicial system interprets them are no where near each other! Our courts are so anti self defense to the law abiding homeowner that it is almost incomprehensible.

[this_is_nascar 162]

I'm going to chalk it up to the complex and confusing NJ laws, but I can never seem to get a YES or NO answer to any legal question I ask and those times that I do, it's never 100% either YES or NO. Sometimes it's 80/20 or 60/40 or it may me a straight YES or NO, but then contains disclaimers.

 

I understand the laws may be up for interpretation, but damn, it makes it difficult to ensure one is doing the proper (legal) things. Bottom line, if someone entered my home and I felt threatened, even if I was inches away from my back door, I would certainly hope I'd be able to put a bullet in his head and not face criminal charges or a trial, etc.

[Babaganoosh 192]

Center mass, not head. But yeah we all feel the same way. Crazy that if a group of people are on your lawn threatening to come in and kill you and your family there isn't much you could do besides call the police. Hopefully they can get there in time...

[gunforhire 826]

Center mass, not head. But yeah we all feel the same way. Crazy that if a group of people are on your lawn threatening to come in and kill you and your family there isn't much you could do besides call the police. Hopefully they can get there in time...

NJ is a "Run and Cower State"!

 

Look how we just voted.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

NJ is a "Run and Cower State"!

 

Look how we just voted.

 

I would think it's more of: "Look how everyone else voted"

 

I doubt very much that anyone here voted for some gun-grabbing Dem...

[gunforhire 826]

I would think it's more of: "Look how everyone else voted"

 

I doubt very much that anyone here voted for some gun-grabbing Dem...

I meant we as in NJ, I am so disappointed with the people of NJ at the moment.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I meant we as in NJ, I am so disappointed with the people of NJ at the moment.

 

What else is new? This state is an embarrassment to the other 43 (Cali, Illinois, NY, Delaware, Mass, RI are embarrassing as well)...

[this_is_nascar 162]

Center mass, not head. But yeah we all feel the same way. Crazy that if a group of people are on your lawn threatening to come in and kill you and your family there isn't much you could do besides call the police. Hopefully they can get there in time...

 

What's wrong with a head-shot?

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Center mass, not head. But yeah we all feel the same way. Crazy that if a group of people are on your lawn threatening to come in and kill you and your family there isn't much you could do besides call the police. Hopefully they can get there in time...

 

You're gonna need a lot of shovels for that one... lol

[gunforhire 826]

You're gonna need a lot of shovels for that one... lol

And black pepper an lime!

[Krdshrk 3,877]

What's wrong with a head-shot?

 

Could be taken as excessive force or summary execution.

[Babaganoosh 192]

What's wrong with a head-shot?

 

There is nothing wrong with a head shot, there's just more right with shooting for center mass. Head shots aren't easy to make especially in a high stress situation. Center mass is also a bigger target. Bigger target means less chance of missing. If you send 6 rounds at the guy you want them hitting him and not going thru the wall

[Krdshrk 3,877]

I think he meant "what's wrong with a head shot after you already shot them and they're down but not dead".

[this_is_nascar 162]

I think he meant "what's wrong with a head shot after you already shot them and they're down but not dead".

 

NO, that's not what I meant.

 

Consider this. I have a firearm in every room of my house. I'm in the living room, which is half way between the front door and the back door. A bad guy enters through the front-door and is threatening me with a knife. My wife is upstairs or something. I reach over and pickup my firearm and proceed to place one bullet in his forehead and he goes down. The threat is over and I call the cops, etc.

 

What was wrong with shooting at the head vs. shooting at center mass where I may have had to discharge several shots?

[hd2000fxdl 422]

What was wrong with shooting at the head vs. shooting at center mass where I may have had to discharge several shots?

 

Other than trying to place that shot in a pressure situation when you really are not 100% in control as if you were doing drills at the rage with nothing threating you, no adrenaline, no fear, not other factors.

 

Now lets just say you can place that shot, What is the chances of the round passing through IF you make the shot and striking something else. Now what if you miss, now you launched a round you have no idea where it's going to stop. Center mass is a large target, better change of a hit, also better chance that it will stop if your using something other than range ammo.

 

This isn't the movies, I don't care how good any of us are, you take the course of action that has the best odds of results of stopping the threat and the lowest odds of injuring someone else.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Other than trying to place that shot in a pressure situation when you really are not 100% in control as if you were doing drills at the rage with nothing threating you, no adrenaline, no fear, not other factors.

 

Now lets just say you can place that shot, What is the chances of the round passing through IF you make the shot and striking something else. Now what if you miss, now you launched a round you have no idea where it's going to stop. Center mass is a large target, better change of a hit, also better chance that it will stop if your using something other than range ammo.

 

This isn't the movies, I don't care how good any of us are, you take the course of action that has the best odds of results of stopping the threat and the lowest odds of injuring someone else.

 

OK, I understand what you're saying. I thought when this comment was made it was based off legality issues as opposed to "hitting your target in stresful situation".

 

 

Center mass, not head. But yeah we all feel the same way. Crazy that if a group of people are on your lawn threatening to come in and kill you and your family there isn't much you could do besides call the police. Hopefully they can get there in time...

[hd2000fxdl 422]

OK, I understand what you're saying. I thought when this comment was made it was based off legality issues as opposed to "hitting your target in stresful situation.

 

 

 

 

 

Probably a little of both, my view is more on the probability of a threat stopping shot with the least chance strays, the other side of that I would take more as speculation. Not that I personally know of any data on it, it's probably a case of how that would be viewed in the eyes of the court. It could be played up to sway 12 people that a really good single shot dead between the eyes could be viewed excessive. They could spin it as, he was good enough to place a shot that well, then he could have placed a less lethal round to stop the threat. Remember no matter how any of us feel, we when in a situation like this are able to stop the threat, we are not out to kill, and you can take that however you like. They do say dead men tell no tales and it's better the be judged by 12 than carried by 6 we have to understand no matter what happens you never ever draw a gun on someone and not be ready for what happens next. Even if any of use are 1000000% correct and it's a good shoot, our lives will be forever changed, no getting around that, especially in the PR of NJ.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Probably a little of both, my view is more on the probability of a threat stopping shot with the least chance strays, the other side of that I would take more as speculation. Not that I personally know of any data on it, it's probably a case of how that would be viewed in the eyes of the court. It could be played up to sway 12 people that a really good single shot dead between the eyes could be viewed excessive. They could spin it as, he was good enough to place a shot that well, then he could have placed a less lethal round to stop the threat. Remember no matter how any of us feel, we when in a situation like this are able to stop the threat, we are not out to kill, and you can take that however you like. They do say dead men tell no tales and it's better the be judged by 12 than carried by 6 we have to understand no matter what happens you never ever draw a gun on someone and not be ready for what happens next. Even if any of use are 1000000% correct and it's a good shoot, our lives will be forever changed, no getting around that, especially in the PR of NJ.

 

Thanks. I do appreciate all your responses to my posts/questions and all the help you provide. That's the first time I've ever heard that, but do like it. I can see myself using this phrase from time to time.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Ahh ok - yeah shoot for center mass. You are accountable for EVERY bullet that leaves your gun. If you shoot for say, the head and miss with all but 1 shot - where did the rest go? Did they go out your house and into the neighbors dog?