Excellent Example Of Conceal Carry

[hopper 36]

This article is a perfect example of why WE as law abiding citizens should be able to carry , the Leo was very lucky he had his concealed firearm with him!! ://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/12/man_in_serious_condition_after.html

[jeklog 7]

i hope these were the 2 guys who took my co workers car at gunpoint in newark! i agree to conceal carry!

[NicePants 58]

Man, some of the comments in that link just make me want to floss my brain with a steak knife.

 

[hopper 36]

Imagine if the criminals/dirtbags knew that NJ residents could carry a concealed firearm , maybe they would think twice before trying something like this , right now now were all just sitting ducks !!!!

[vladtepes 1,060]

while I totally support CCW this is a situation where without a TON of training and practice having a gun might have done more harm than just turning over the car.. just thinking about the situation..the article states that one individual was already pointing a gun at the officer.. the ability to draw your gun and fire while being drawn down on is not one magical ability that comes with your LTCF..having a gun is only a fraction of the situation....

[Knuckle Sandwich 5]

while I totally support CCW this is a situation where without a TON of training and practice having a gun might have done more harm than just turning over the car.. just thinking about the situation..the article states that one individual was already pointing a gun at the officer.. the ability to draw your gun and fire while being drawn down on is not one magical ability that comes with your LTCF..having a gun is only a fraction of the situation....

 

That could be said for any self defense situation. A gun without training is a liability. Any responsible person should be trained enough with their weapon to be able to draw from a holster and fire while seated. Somehow I doubt this guy took any special car jacking tacticool course.

 

Good on him for being able to defend himself, but it's a crying shame we mere peasants are denied the same right.

[vladtepes 1,060]

That could be said for any self defense situation. A gun without training is a liability. Any responsible person should be trained enough with their weapon to be able to draw from a holster and fire while seated. Somehow I doubt this guy took any special car jacking tacticool course.

 

Good on him for being able to defend himself, but it's a crying shame we mere peasants are denied the same right.

 

I was trained in knife and stick fighting over the course of several years by a reputable instructor... I can not even begin to list the amount of people who came through the door who thought "weapon equals automatic advantage" and I have seen that on many occasions in the gun community as well.. "oh well if the guy had a gun then it would have been different"... I was simply pointing out.. that without some dexterity and training.. this would have not gone well.. 2 guys.. one already drawn on you with a gun.. there is not a threat of violence.. you are a few pounds of force on a trigger away from being dead.. and as I stated in the first sentence.. I totally support CCW..

[mipafox 438]

"Excellent Example Of Conceal Carry"

 

^I thought this was going to be thong carry or something.

[fish-catchin-gun-totin 4]

I was trained in knife and stick fighting over the course of several years by a reputable instructor... I can not even begin to list the amount of people who came through the door who thought "weapon equals automatic advantage" and I have seen that on many occasions in the gun community as well.. "oh well if the guy had a gun then it would have been different"... I was simply pointing out.. that without some dexterity and training.. this would have not gone well.. 2 guys.. one already drawn on you with a gun.. there is not a threat of violence.. you are a few pounds of force on a trigger away from being dead.. and as I stated in the first sentence.. I totally support CCW..

 

I can agree with you 100% on the fact that weapon does not equal advantage, and being on the business end of any weapon is not going to end well for the average Joe who has chosen to arm himself, but the mental awareness that a target may be armed trained or not will definately deter the asailant nine out of ten times. Like the bumper sticker says, "Criminals prefer unarmed victims." If there's a possibility that three out of five cars you try to jack will be armed, and two of those three could be properly trained with the weapon, you would probably choose another profession.,

 

You are definately right it could have been bad had the victim not been a LEO, but would have been less likely to have occurred in the first place if NJ was a CC state.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I can agree with you 100% on the fact that weapon does not equal advantage, and being on the business end of any weapon is not going to end well for the average Joe who has chosen to arm himself, but the mental awareness that a target may be armed trained or not will definately deter the asailant nine out of ten times. Like the bumper sticker says, "Criminals prefer unarmed victims." If there's a possibility that three out of five cars you try to jack will be armed, and two of those three could be properly trained with the weapon, you would probably choose another profession.,

 

You are definately right it could have been bad had the victim not been a LEO, but would have been less likely to have occurred in the first place if NJ was a CC state.

 

I agree completely and support the untrained publics right to carry a gun without any stipulations.. lol

but I just get tired of the mindset that just having a gun will make some magical difference.. you can be armed to the teeth.. but you are in many cases dealing with scum bag who has nothing to lose.. so training is really really critical.. and well even with training you may still lose your life..someone pulls a knife on you.. and you have a few feet.. you will likely get to your gun before he kills you.. but someone drawn down on you? that is a totally different situation.. that's all I was stating..

[fish-catchin-gun-totin 4]

I agree completely and support the untrained publics right to carry a gun without any stipulations.. lol

but I just get tired of the mindset that just having a gun will make some magical difference.. you can be armed to the teeth.. but you are in many cases dealing with scum bag who has nothing to lose.. so training is really really critical.. and well even with training you may still lose your life..someone pulls a knife on you.. and you have a few feet.. you will likely get to your gun before he kills you.. but someone drawn down on you? that is a totally different situation.. that's all I was stating..

 

We're definately on the same page. Check out this link its kind of old, but it definately solidifies your point.

 

[vladtepes 1,060]

We're definately on the same page. Check out this link its kind of old, but it definately solidifies your point.

 

 

it appears that the "shooter" knew who the armed individual was before the shooting even started.. that AND I believe the shooter obviously had some training.. a pretty unequal "test"

[Knuckle Sandwich 5]

We're definately on the same page. Check out this link its kind of old, but it definately solidifies your point.

 

 

That "study" is rigged. Aside from the fact that this test is bogus without real boolets, where's the control? You know, the one where the shooter walks into a room full of unarmed people and kills them all?

 

That report is not an experiment, it's a rigged show that was designed to further the anti-gun agenda. I'd like to know what Suzanna Hupp would have to say about this so called experiment.

 

eta: I know we are all on the same page here, I am just commenting on it for posterity.

[djg0770 481]

That "study" is rigged. Aside from the fact that this test is bogus without real boolets, where's the control? You know, the one where the shooter walks into a room full of unarmed people and kills them all?

 

That report is not an experiment, it's a rigged show that was designed to further the anti-gun agenda.

 

Exactly. The gunner KNEW where the CCW would be sitting. Certainly the guy made a bunch of mistakes - first take cover, etc, but it was totally rigged as a hit job. Had that guy been in the last row instead of the first, and not been in the center of the room, IMO he would have been more effective. And then there's the issue of the oversized shirt and the fact that the CCW didn't look very familiar with that holster. Practice practice practice.

 

But to say that it's different for a cop who has had training, I would disagree. There are enthusiasts on this forum that train far more than many many LEOs ever do. I don't disagree that LEOs get training, but to assume that a CCW would be more danger in the hands of a civilian than a "trained" LEO is to discount what some people do with their spare time.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

But to say that it's different for a cop who has had training, I would disagree. There are enthusiasts on this forum that train far more than many many LEOs ever do. I don't disagree that LEOs get training, but to assume that a CCW would be more danger in the hands of a civilian than a "trained" LEO is to discount what some people do with their spare time.

 

There are gun enthusiast there are LEO's and then there are LEO's that are gun enthusiast. Who ever is the enthusiast will more than likely be more proficient regardless.

 

Just as in the other thread about the article written by a retired LEO, not all, but probably a larger percentage of LEO's today are not as proficient as they once were, I myself know many here at the airport that I see all and talk to all the time, and many of them shoot a few times a year, and that for qualifications, and many of them blow it the first go and have to go back for a re-shoot.

 

I would just like to say in regards to the video in this thread, we can all speculate what we would or would not do, we can play Monday morning QB all day long, but it's not until we do a simulation like this to really know what we would or would not do.

 

Guess what, we do have that chance to find out how we would do also at GFH, I have not YET, but will in the future.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I didn't say anything about cops with training.. I said training in general... the 50+ year old over weight desk jockey of a cop who shoots his gun just enough to squeak by qualifying is going to fail just as hard as that CCW commando who does nothing to actually sharpen his skill.. again.. the point was just having a gun.. in a situation like this.. NOT ENOUGH..

 

But to say that it's different for a cop who has had training, I would disagree. There are enthusiasts on this forum that train far more than many many LEOs ever do. I don't disagree that LEOs get training, but to assume that a CCW would be more danger in the hands of a civilian than a "trained" LEO is to discount what some people do with their spare time.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Good video! If anything, it emphasizes the importance of solid training. I really need to get around to taking Simunitions.

 

Are you listening Anthony?

[fish-catchin-gun-totin 4]

it appears that the "shooter" knew who the armed individual was before the shooting even started.. that AND I believe the shooter obviously had some training.. a pretty unequal "test"

Exactly. The gunner KNEW where the CCW would be sitting. Certainly the guy made a bunch of mistakes - first take cover, etc, but it was totally rigged as a hit job. Had that guy been in the last row instead of the first, and not been in the center of the room, IMO he would have been more effective. And then there's the issue of the oversized shirt and the fact that the CCW didn't look very familiar with that holster. Practice practice practice.

 

But to say that it's different for a cop who has had training, I would disagree. There are enthusiasts on this forum that train far more than many many LEOs ever do. I don't disagree that LEOs get training, but to assume that a CCW would be more danger in the hands of a civilian than a "trained" LEO is to discount what some people do with their spare time.

 

There was actually alot more to the experiment than the two scenarios that were shown in the video. I cant seem to find the full story that I saw a while back, But basically everyone in the room was the CC control at one point. These two individuals were just the cream of the crop from the experiment. Most failed miserably. I dont dispute the fact that there are enthusiasts on this forum that would have obtained cover and taken the shooter out. Hence the reason I used the phrase "Average Joe." As firearm enyhusiasts we are far out numbered in this state. And There are plenty of people that can draw lightning fast and put holes in a target, but when bullets are flying at you everything changes.I would actually put my bet on a paintball enthusiast who has never held a real firearm. Vs a comp shooter who has never taken a shot at anything other than a staged target. Just my $0.02.

[fish-catchin-gun-totin 4]

I didn't say anything about cops with training.. I said training in general... the 50+ year old over weight desk jockey of a cop who shoots his gun just enough to squeak by qualifying is going to fail just as hard as that CCW commando who does nothing to actually sharpen his skill.. again.. the point was just having a gun.. in a situation like this.. NOT ENOUGH..

 

'vladtepes' I probably shoud have quoted you on this post first. just having a gun.. in in a situation like this.. NOT ENOUGH.. "N'UFF SAID"

[bulpup 98]

There really is only one appropriate response to that video

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3eHG70fiqA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

i am no expert, but in my experience if you sit somedown in a room like that and set it up that somethung is going to happen you get a response where a guy stands bolt upright and trades shots. Most combat vets I know tell me they forgot they had a rifle and ran the first time.