Buffer

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I have a smith and Wesson m&p-15 5.56/.223

 

Back when I switched to a magpul stock I bought a brownells buffer tube kit. The kit came with tube, spring and buffer. The brownells kit came with a heavier buffer then came on my gun in stock form. Is their any benefit to a heavier buffer or am I better off not adding the weight.

 

 

darker one is brownells

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Heavier buffers supposedly help with recoil mitigation... however, the trade-off with them is that when you shoot **** ammo like TULA or Herters, the rifle will not cycle properly.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I shoot federal all the time

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

They both appear to be standard rifle length buffers that, IIRC, should be a hair over 5 oz. How much difference in weight is there?

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Darker one is probably twice the weight. The lighter colored one also is 1 piece with something inside it while the brownells is 2 pieces and has movement to it

[raz-0 1,259]

I have a smith and Wesson m&p-15 5.56/.223

 

Back when I switched to a magpul stock I bought a brownells buffer tube kit. The kit came with tube, spring and buffer. The brownells kit came with a heavier buffer then came on my gun in stock form. Is their any benefit to a heavier buffer or am I better off not adding the weight.

 

 

darker one is brownells

 

A heavier buffer will help slow down an over-gassed gun. If your gun is running reliably, don't go heavier. If you are seeing stuff like failing to strip a round and chanber when it goes back into battery, it is moving too fast, and you could use more delay when it hits the buffer, and a heavier buffer will give you that.

 

They both appear to be standard rifle length buffers that, IIRC, should be a hair over 5 oz. How much difference in weight is there?

 

 

Uhh those are carbine buffers. Rifle buffers are longer and have a flange about at about 1/3 in from the end. Unless they are special extra heavy ones, they aren't 5oz. Standard carbine is 3oz, H is 3.8, h2 is 4.6, H3 is 5.4. Pistol carbine buffers are between 5.6 and about 8oz, and standard rifle is 5.2oz..

 

If you want to be extra picky and go beyond simply accepting the "it isn't malfunctioning, so it must be sufficient", and well gassed, properly sprung, properly weighted buffer setup should not be mangling your brass, and brass should be ejecting with enough oomf to bounce of the brass deflector and land between 1:00 and 3:00 of the shooter. If it is consistently skipping rounds off the brass deflector to land in a 5:00 position, you are getting weak extraction.. which is normal as you get towards the end of the service life of the springs, but isn't something you should be seeing in a new gun.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Looking on brownells it looks like the 9mm buffer that came with my kit. I only bought the kit for the tube

[Shawnmoore81 623]

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=44738/Product/CAR-15-M4-9MM-CARBINE-BUFFER

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I had it sitting in a drawer for a while and never put it in because the other one worked fine.

[Old School 611]

Heavier buffers supposedly help with recoil mitigation... however, the trade-off with them is that when you shoot **** ammo like TULA or Herters, the rifle will not cycle properly.

 

Adam- Does anybody really shoot that $hit in their precious rifles?

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Adam- Does anybody really shoot that $hit in their precious rifles?

 

I shoot Brown Bear... though I don't have much of it left.

[Old School 611]

 

 

I shoot Brown Bear... though I don't have much of it left.

 

Shame on you!

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Adam- Does anybody really shoot that $hit in their precious rifles?

 

I tried it once using some Tula my brother had laying around... my 14.5" wouldn't cycle properly with those weak loads. Given the cost you can find XM193 these days versus the slightly less cost of buying cheapo steel, it's just not worth it IMO. Buy the 'good' stuff.

 

Besides, Russian **** .223/5.56 just doesn't work as well as US Mil-Spec ammo... it just doesn't fragment as effectively at similar ranges...

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I shoot Brown Bear... though I don't have much of it left.

 

Lacquered Steel? Or Polymer coated?

 

Either or, they're a pain to clean up.

[Old School 611]

 

 

I tried it once using some Tula my brother had laying around... my 14.5" wouldn't cycle properly with those weak loads. Given the cost you can find XM193 these days versus the slightly less cost of buying cheapo steel, it's just not worth it IMO. Buy the 'good' stuff.

 

Besides, Russian **** .223/5.56 just doesn't work as well as US Mil-Spec ammo... it just doesn't fragment as effectively at similar ranges...

 

That's why I like you Adam...

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Lacquered Steel? Or Polymer coated?

 

Either or, they're a pain to clean up.

 

Lacquered steel. Didn't have to clean anything other than a regular cleaning.

[Old School 611]

 

 

Lacquered steel. Didn't have to clean anything other than a regular cleaning.

 

Nick- do you use a chamber brush and some kind of lacquer solvent?

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Chamber brush and regular hoppes 9

[alowerlevel 77]

Nick- do you use a chamber brush and some kind of lacquer solvent?

 

Lacquer solvent? Why? Ive shot plenty of wolf and silver bear through my AR and never had to clean any more than if I shot brass cased ammo. The whole "lacquer coming off the cases and gumming up the chamber" is an old myth. Besides the newer steel cased ammo is polymer coated now.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Lacquer solvent? Why? Ive shot plenty of wolf and silver bear through my AR and never had to clean any more than if I shot brass cased ammo. The whole "lacquer coming off the cases and gumming up the chamber" is an old myth. Besides the newer steel cased ammo is polymer coated now.

 

It's not so much the lacquer coming off, but the buildup of burnt powder in the chamber due to the inability of the steel to expand to seal the chamber during ignition of the powder. Box-O-Truth tested this I think... if all you did is shoot steel ****, then switched to brass, you'd have issues. So you'd have to clean in between.

 

Again, given the low cost of brass AR-15 ammo these days, I don't see why folks really spend on marginally cheaper steel cased stuff. You may save a few bucks, but you're getting an inferior round in so many ways. I can see if you stockpiled it during the "bad times" ammo shortages awhile back... OR if you have a rifle like a Saiga .223 or something...

 

Honestly, spend your money on XM193 55gr... it's the best all-around cartridge for the AR-15 platform at the lowest price. It works better than M855 (62gr) at better ranges and is just cheaper.

[KpdPipes 388]

Adam- Does anybody really shoot that $hit in their precious rifles?

 

I do..it works..it's DIRTY, but it works.. Heavier buffers also reduce bolt-bounce and help with more solid lockups into battery..NOT as much of a concern when you are not shooting supressed weapons, or Full-auto, but it does help if you're shooting something other than 5.56 such as 6.8, .300blk, or 6.5 Gren..VERY heavy buffer if you;re shooting .458Socom, .50 Beo, or 450 Bushy

[alowerlevel 77]

It's not so much the lacquer coming off, but the buildup of burnt powder in the chamber due to the inability of the steel to expand to seal the chamber during ignition of the powder. Box-O-Truth tested this I think... if all you did is shoot steel ****, then switched to brass, you'd have issues. So you'd have to clean in between.

 

Again, given the low cost of brass AR-15 ammo these days, I don't see why folks really spend on marginally cheaper steel cased stuff. You may save a few bucks, but you're getting an inferior round in so many ways. I can see if you stockpiled it during the "bad times" ammo shortages awhile back... OR if you have a rifle like a Saiga .223 or something...

 

Honestly, spend your money on XM193 55gr... it's the best all-around cartridge for the AR-15 platform at the lowest price. It works better than M855 (62gr) at better ranges and is just cheaper.

 

Yes I know that its from the steel not expanding and sealing the chamber as well as brass, allowing some powder residue/carbon to build up. Ive never had a problem shooting steel and brass together, Ive gone through 400 rounds of Wolf followed by 100 rounds of Federal in about 5 hours with no issues at all (and no cleaning). When I can get brass for ~$200 shipped I'll start buying more of it, until then I will continue to shoot "steel s**t" as you guys put it.

[KpdPipes 388]

Yes I know that its from the steel not expanding and sealing the chamber as well as brass, allowing some powder residue/carbon to build up. Ive never had a problem shooting steel and brass together, Ive gone through 400 rounds of Wolf followed by 100 rounds of Federal in about 5 hours with no issues at all (and no cleaning). When I can get brass for ~$200 shipped I'll start buying more of it, until then I will continue to shoot "steel s**t" as you guys put it.

This....

[SW9racer 262]

In my m&p I run the Spikes tactical st-t2 buffer, the one that is powder filled. With it, I noticed reduced recoil, smoother action as I can get back on target faster, eliminated the buffer spring twang sound, and shells eject at about 2:30 with federal bulk.

[raz-0 1,259]

Lacquer solvent? Why? Ive shot plenty of wolf and silver bear through my AR and never had to clean any more than if I shot brass cased ammo. The whole "lacquer coming off the cases and gumming up the chamber" is an old myth. Besides the newer steel cased ammo is polymer coated now.

 

It's not a myth, it is misrepresented. There are a few issues with wolf/tula/herters.

 

1) It's got the read primer sealant on it. THIS is what can get in your gun. No it doesn't mess up your chamber. However you DO want to keep an eye on your firing pin and firing pin hole. If you burn through lots of the stuff between cleanings, you can get the firing pin binding on the ugnk and slam fire can occur. Pretty much every gun cleaner I have run into will clean the stuff up.

 

2) steel isn't as ductile as brass, hence you can get more powder fowling. If you have a chrome lined 5.56 chamber, this isn't really much of an issue as long as you don't buy really soft brass cased ammo. (ex. federal XM193 is GTG, indian surplus? Not so much, even jsut a carbiine length gas system can mess it up but good).

 

3) steel case heads. SOme people say it will wear out ejectors faster. You should be keeping spares anyway, because it's a wear item even with brass. Just remember to do your cost comparison between steel and brass cased including maintenance costs.

 

4) copper washed steel projectiles. There isn't much copper. A hard chromed bore should mitigate wear issues some, but even so, I find the cost savings of steel cased ammo heavily mitigated by decreased accuracy. It depend son how you shoot your guns, and if you care.

 

5) Matte finish. The matte finished steel cased ammo + pmag plastic feed lips, + cold weather can be an issue. Especially in the 62gr variety with a midlength gas system on a 16" gun and shorter. I've run into failures to feed with my mid length in winter with that combo. The forward assist will get it done, but it's was about 25% of rounds through the gun. The 55gr ammo was significantly better, and with metal mags, wasn't giving me any issues and with pmags was maybe 1 in 20 needed a small nudge with the FA.

 

That's basically it. I shot a TON of wolf when it had real copper jackets. Loved the stuff. It was actually pretty accurate, especially the 62gr stuff. Since it doesn't look like we'll ever see it again, I finally shot up the last of my supply and have moved on to all brass cased ammo. Mostly federal xm193 and my own reloads.

[NickySantoro 211]

I had it sitting in a drawer for a while and never put it in because the other one worked fine.

 

You answered your own question. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.