What would you do?

[hd2000fxdl 422]

I'm not a safety inspector, but I think apartments and town homes are separated by a firewall (cinder block?) so if one apartment catches on fire, it would be slow to spread to surrounding units. If this is true, it would definitely minimize risk in that situation. A construction guy would know for sure.

 

A single family dwelling is a different story. I think I read some manufacturers literature that stated their hollow point home defense ammo would not have sufficient energy to cause lethal injury after passing through a typical drywall wall.

 

Walls inside, exterior, and roof of the house are not designed as a backstop for bullets,,

 

Please think about this for a minute and ask yourself, is it worth it???

[BarkNBite 15]

I would have to agree.........anyone that fakes a crime scene is gonna get caught anyway....Dumb, Dumb, Dumb.

What do you think, these investigators just started last night.......she's giving you bad advice...IMO.

[TCinJ 7]

I would have to agree.........anyone that fakes a crime scene is gonna get caught anyway....Dumb, Dumb, Dumb.

What do you think, these investigators just started last night.......she's giving you bad advice...IMO.

 

Nevermind guys.

 

In that situation, you are not faking a crime scene. You have committed no crime if you are defending your family from an invader. The only thing that would compel anyone to do what she instructed is the fear that you would be thrown in jail for life defending your own family and person. If there were no such concerns, then there would be no need to "fake" the "warning" shot. But guess what folks - there are many well documented cases of people defending themselves from intruders that get thrown in jail for doing so.

[Anselmo 87]

Nevermind guys.

 

In that situation, you are not faking a crime scene. You have committed no crime if you are defending your family from an invader. The only thing that would compel anyone to do what she instructed is the fear that you would be thrown in jail for life defending your own family and person. If there were no such concerns, then there would be no need to "fake" the "warning" shot. But guess what folks - there are many well documented cases of people defending themselves from intruders that get thrown in jail for doing so.

 

Not to put you on the spot but can you share some of these well documented cases?

[BarkNBite 15]

yeah....so what's your Aunt's name might need some good legal advice down the road.

[TCinJ 7]

Not to put you on the spot but can you share some of these well documented cases?

 

No problem, here's one you can google others.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

 

Can anyone show me a case where firing a warning shot resulted in more prison time or a more serious crime being pursued by the DA?

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Nevermind guys.

 

In that situation, you are not faking a crime scene. You have committed no crime if you are defending your family from an invader. The only thing that would compel anyone to do what she instructed is the fear that you would be thrown in jail for life defending your own family and person. If there were no such concerns, then there would be no need to "fake" the "warning" shot. But guess what folks - there are many well documented cases of people defending themselves from intruders that get thrown in jail for doing so.

 

You are allowed to stop a threat, your house, your walls, your ceiling, and roof are not a threat to you, no reason to shoot them.

 

And please tell us, what good is faking something going to do for you?? Seriously, faking something at a crime scene, hhmmmm, wonder if there are any laws that you would be breaking???? Guess what, there are...

 

Seriously, this really went from something that could have been taken jokingly, to completely absurd..

[Ray Ray 3,566]

this is

[hd2000fxdl 422]

No problem, here's one you can google others.

 

http://en.wikipedia....Martin_(farmer)

 

Can anyone show me a case where firing a warning shot resulted in more prison time or a more serious crime being pursued by the DA?

 

It may have not been said, but NJ Cases is what we would be looking for..

 

In other states a safe direction warning shot prior to engaging the threat is allowed, say into the ground even in your front lawn is allowed, but again, we are talking NJ not other states where in some of them you are even allowed to defend your neighbors property..

[hd2000fxdl 422]

this is

 

I agree, maybe I should not have even entertained this complete and total BS but I ran with it, oh well, I;m done with it for tonight....

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I agree, maybe I should not have even entertained this complete and total BS but I ran with it, oh well, I;m done with it for tonight....

 

Not you, this thread is

[TCinJ 7]

yeah....so what's your Aunt's name might need some good legal advice down the road.

 

Seriously, no need to mock anyone here. She's not my Aunt. She's a good friend that I would trust my life to. She is a retired LEO that has seen and done more within the legal system than myself and probably most people here.

 

Like others, I am done with this subject. I'm sorry I even posted.

[Anselmo 87]

Martin shot towards the intruders (who were by then trying to flee through a window). Fearon was hit in the leg, and Barras in the back. Barras escaped through the window but died at the scene.

 

That is not an NJ legal shot.

 

If you fear for your safety from an intruder in your house in NJ then you may use lethal force if needed. I think we need to stop spending so much time debating something is extremely unlikely to happen and even more unlikely that we remember fancy legal shenanigans. From what I've read, even trained LEO can't think straight and just react in these life and death situations.

 

It's not that the firing of a warning shot is good or bad, it's that lying about what happened is bad. If you get caught in that lie, it will put all of your statements under suspicion.

[TheWombat 67]

No problem, here's one you can google others.

 

http://en.wikipedia....Martin_(farmer)

 

Can anyone show me a case where firing a warning shot resulted in more prison time or a more serious crime being pursued by the DA?

 

While I know a number of people have used this as a 'good example' there are a few issues:

 

1. English law permits one person to kill another in self defence only if the person defending him or herself uses no more than "reasonable force"

2. Martin shot towards the intruders (who were by then trying to flee through a window) - this would be an issue even in many places in the UK

 

The Jury found him originally guilty by 10:2, what we don't know is how good/experienced was his lawyer, were there expert witnesses etc. There are enough cases of assumed 'justified shooting' in the US with the victim going to prison due to not having the right lawyer/witnesses or saying something unfortunate. Tony Martin's story though seems to be seen as a good example to quite in the US for the pro-gun people.

 

note: I am NOT saying that Tony Martin was right/wrong, or that he should/shouldn't have gone to prison. I am only suggesting that in the US we need to consider the examples we quote to ensure it is appropriate to the point we are trying to make.

 

TheWombat

[mipafox 438]

Does your township have fireworks on Fourth of July? It would be a lot like that but packed into a much smaller space and would start with the finale.

[Qel Hoth 33]

You realize that case is from the UK? They have even more strict laws on use of force and it is also illegal to keep a weapon for the purpose of self defense.

 

Even in most states that would have been a bad shoot as he shot at fleeing people.

 

I would agree with what other said above:

 

"I HAVE A GUN," if he continues being a threat take whatever action you feel necessary to end the threat. In your home you have zero obligation to retreat and need only to have a reasonable belief that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent you or another from coming to harm.

 

If you charge me in my house after me warning you I have a gun:

 

1. He has a weapon? Shoot.

2. He has no weapon? Shoot.

3. I don't know if he has a weapon? Shoot.

 

If someone charges you after being warned you are armed what can you assume other than that he intends to do you harm?

[vladtepes 1,060]

you are responsible for every single round that ever comes out of a gun that you operate..

 

* put bullet in bad guy who is about to attack you?

* shoot at wall to protect bad guy and hope you don't over penetrate structure injuring, maiming, or killing some innocent individual?

 

SHOOT THE PERSON WHO IS TRYING TO HURT YOU..

anything else is ridiculous IMO..

[RecessedFilter 222]

There is no need to jump down TCinNJ's throat. All he did was post up what a retired LEO told him, and probably just thought he would add that into the thread not realizing it would turn into some huge debacle. He posted numerous times that he even disagreed with what that LEO said.

 

So continue on the 'what would you do' topic...

[vladtepes 1,060]

There is no need to jump down TCinNJ's throat. All he did was post up what a retired LEO told him, and probably just thought he would add that into the thread not realizing it would turn into some huge debacle. He posted numerous times that he even disagreed with what that LEO said.

 

So continue on the 'what would you do' topic...

 

telling people to fake a crime scene is a complete train wreck..

 

further.. he attempts to fear monger.. by posting a link to a case documented by wikipedia that has next to no relevance to anyone here..

 

there are many well documented cases of people defending themselves from intruders that get thrown in jail for doing so.

[TCinJ 7]

OK - so now I'm telling people to fake a "crime scene" - one I did not create and I am "fear mongering" by citing a well known example of a fellow who is in jail for life for shooting/killing home invaders. I am public enemy number one!

 

Once again, let me make this perfectly clear. Nobody follow the advice that I posted. Nobody.

 

And I will again explain the reasoning for the advice given. It is not to please the cops, it is to please the jury. Chances are, if you defend yourself in a home invasion, you might just see yourself in court. Am I right or am I fear mongering? Or if you shoot a home invader dead, the cops will just clean up the mess, shake your hand and go away. So now you're in court, be it criminal or civil, and the other side is trying to paint you as neurotic fear mongering gun owner just wanting to shoot someone. The police can charge you with negligent discharge of a weapon, but the jury is the one that'll find you not guilty of the charge because of the "warning" intent. Her advice was from a culmination of an entire career in law enforcement and working with the courts and juries.

 

It is sad that we even have to think about these things because of the complex "duty to retreat" laws. Think too long and the bad guy gets the upper hand. Do what is instinctively right and face the possibility of going to jail for a long time.

 

Now can someone cite a case in NJ (your standards, not mine) where someone fired a warning shot and ended up in far worse shape legally than he otherwise would. Because I would say you are probably screwed whether you fire the warning shot or not. Just call 911 and wait, just like they want you to.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

OK - so now I'm telling people to fake a "crime scene" -

 

Dude, you are the one who did say to shoot and then fire off a round to pretend you fired a warning shot not any of us, so yes, you are changing the crime scene from what actually happened and trying to either add or hide something.

[Ian S 22]

Why do you try to distance yourself from the remark and then write a much longer paragraph about why it might be a good idea What your friend recommended is wrong and will screw you.

 

How long do you think it would take for the investigator to talk to your neighbors? When they get 10 witnesses to say that they heard three shots, a pause, and a single final shot... Maybe you can post a case of when a good shooting turned into an execution. (A pharmacy employee was found guilty of murder a couple months back after he stopped the attackers, reloaded, and finished them off.) Then you'll spend the rest of your life trying to make the justice system understand that you fired a warning shot after the the threat was neutralized.

 

Honesty is always the best policy. If you do the right thing you can defend your actions. If you fabricate evidence and lie about the facts, you completely lose your defensible position.

 

I don't know anyone that believes warning shots should ever be made. If I was on a jury, a warning shot would tell me that you did not feel you were in great danger since you had the time to waste on wild unplaced shots. And it wouldn't take 2 minutes for the prosecutor to convince everyone that the final single shot was an execution.

[Urban Grunt 44]

I really don't want to shoot/ kill anyone , nobody forced them to break into my home but they forced me to take action against them..

 

[TCinJ 7]

Oh - I forgot to tell y'all to take an unregistered, illegal gun, make sure it is clean and put it in the hands of the invader if he wasn't armed. LOL you guys crack me up.

 

Over and out.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Oh - I forgot to tell y'all to take an unregistered, illegal gun, make sure it is clean and put it in the hands of the invader if he wasn't armed. LOL you guys crack me up.

 

Over and out.

 

,,, great post about lying about what happened at a crime scene, and now joke about using a drop gun, that should help the publics perception of gun owners..

[Sandy 44]

Shes is wrong, and following that advise will only land you in more trouble...

 

She gave you very bad advice. Shooting a warning shot in your home is an irresponsible and stupid thing to do. Trying in any way shape or form to alter the scene of an incident is even more stupid . One slip up in your timeline which you will have to repeat one thousand times , can bring suspicion and great an investigation to an otherwise justified shooting.

[RedBowTies88 41]

If someone in my home completely ignores the fact that he's staring down a loaded "ak" and takes one step towards me I'm immediatly assuming he's off his rocker and firing until the mag is empty or he's on the ground..

 

Lets not forget, people are insane and will cause harm to anyone anywhere for no rational reason

 

[BarkNBite 15]

What...........no shots through the car roof ..... :facepalm: .

 

Always be truthful...........

[Qel Hoth 33]

I would have been very tempted to run that guy over, I certainly would have been in fear for my life with some guy hitting my car with a crowbar with me in it...

[blksheep 466]

wtf?