NJ PTPP Applications—Contacting Employers

[TheDon 3]

I guess I am proof that subtle intimidation tactics actually work.

Lately I have been thinking about getting a M1911 and a M9A1. I have actually delayed my purchases now for well over a year because I am reluctant to go through the permit process again.

 

As if it is not enough to impose upon two friends to have reference forms notarized and to arrange telephone interviews with the local PD during regular business hours, I also have to subject to having my employer notified that I am buying handguns. The Township will send a letter to my employer supposedly to “verify” the employment information that I provide on the application. However, the form has a big bold title telling everyone the reason for the verification is because I am applying for a permit to purchase a handgun.

 

I am not paranoid. But, I do believe that this does not reflect positively upon me and is certainly not healthy for my career. I would prefer that my local PD either not contact my employer or exercise some discretion in the amount of information they share with my employer.

 

The last time this happened, I called the PD and asked them why they did it. The Cpl told me that they are required to verify all the information on the application. When I asked if they could exercise some discretion, he got exceptionally agitated with me and shut his ears off.

 

What are my rights? Can I direct them not to divulge the reason for verifying my employment (mortgage companies do not tell employers details about why they are verifying employment)? Can I leave the Employer Information (STS 033, Line 12) blank, or write in “Do not contact Employer”? Or, do I just have to sucker down and endure?

 

Thanks.

[RubberBullets 65]

No wonder why people file 3-5 permits at a time.. There's got to be some sort of overhaul to this process. Sadly any change knowing this state would involve further scrutiny to make it harder. DNA sampling anyone?

[RLTW 3]

I agree. i don't want to buy a pistol just because I have to tell my boss and friends I am buying a firearm. I refuse to go through the process again. Instead I am going to buy bigger, more powerful & more accurate, so called "assault weapons".. Just sayin...

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

I don't know if this will do any good or not, nor do I know how far you want to push this, but this is from the NJ Administrative Code...

 

NJAC 13:54-1.15, which states: Any background investigation conducted by the chief of police, the Superintendent or the county prosecutor, of any applicant for a permit, firearms identification card license, or registration, in accordance with the requirements of this chapter, is not a public record and shall not be disclosed to any person not authorized by law or this chapter to have access to such investigation, including the applicant. Any application for a permit, firearms identification card, or license, and any document reflecting the issuance or denial of such permit, firearms identification card, or license, and any permit, firearms identification card, license, certification, certificate, form of register, or registration statement, maintained by any State or municipal governmental agency, is not a public record and shall not be disclosed to any person not authorized by law or this chapter to have access to such documentation, including the applicant, except on the request of persons acting in their governmental capacities for purposes of the administration of justice.

 

The NJSP Guide says that they are to verify employment. In my opinion, to tell the employer what it is for is a breach of confidence in direct contravention to the above clause. Print it out and show it to the PD and let them know that you would consider legal action if your confidence is breached. There is no reason your employer needs to know why the inquiry is being made.

 

Likewise, the requirement for your references to have their statements notarized is an added requirement, above the scope of the application and is illegal. It is up to the PD to establish the bona fides of your references, not your references themselves.

 

Contact Bob at NJ2AS and forward copies of any forms from your PD beyond the three required (STS-033 / SBI-212A / SP-066).

 

Up to you how hard you want to push. Good luck.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[TheDon 3]

Thanks, Bob.

Your advice is in line with one option I was considering. I was going to write a letter directing them not to divulge the reason for the verification to my employer. If that means they cannot use their standard form, so beit; pick up the phone.

Your citation is helpful. I will include it in that letter and follow up with an in-person conversation with the officer in charge.

[Holeshot 3]

My local township PD does send a form to your employer to fill out and return to them. It is the same form they send to my two references. It basically says any reason why the applicant should not have a firearm, does the applicant use drugs, is the applicant a habitual drunkard,etc.. etc... etc...

 

According to what has been posted above they probably should not be doing that. Thankfully both my previous employer and current employer are firearms enthusists so it was not a big deal for them.

 

I know my PD is not the only one doing this because I remember reading somewhere on this forum where a business owner received the form to fill out about himself! LOL

[johnp 45]

The last time I got permits, I brought my application in with the employer blank. Detective said, "I need your employers info.", I told him I haven't been able to find work since I got home. And he just wrote in "Unemployed veteran" and it was no problem.

[EX Carnival man 223]

I put down self employed which I am. I never get contacted at work.

[TheDon 3]

The last time I got permits, I brought my application in with the employer blank. Detective said, "I need your employers info.", I told him I haven't been able to find work since I got home. And he just wrote in "Unemployed veteran" and it was no problem.

 

I put down self employed which I am. I never get contacted at work.

 

These options work only if you are in fact unemployed or self-employed. Otherwise, falsifying information on STS033 is a crime. You could become a prohibited person and lose your 2A rights.

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

I agree. i don't want to buy a pistol just because I have to tell my boss and friends I am buying a firearm. I refuse to go through the process again. Instead I am going to buy bigger, more powerful & more accurate, so called "assault weapons".. Just sayin...

This is their plan

Dissuade firearms ownership by all means

I'm afraid we're sunk

Just haven't gotten there yet.

[johnp 45]

Ask whoever is in charge of fid and pps at your local cop shop what he suggests. That you feel that letting you employer know that, you being a gun enthuisast might bring a negative aspect upon you. There has to be a legal way around this.

 

If that doesn't work become self-employed start selling crap on ebay, technically it wouldn't be a lie.

[Anselmo 87]

I have no idea if my local PD contacted my work but the lady in HR has always been very nice to me and nothing has changed since I got my permits. Well, except our new company wide "no weapons in our cars and the company can search our cars at any time" policy that we all had to sign and agree to.

[Anselmo 87]

Ask whoever is in charge of fid and pps at your local cop shop what he suggests. That you feel that letting you employer know that, you being a gun enthuisast might bring a negative aspect upon you. There has to be a legal way around this.

 

If that doesn't work become self-employed start selling crap on ebay, technically it wouldn't be a lie.

 

The police might be sympathetic to your relationship with your employer about guns or they migh think you are hiding something that you don't want the PD to contact the employer.

 

What if the local PD calls the employer listed on the previous application and finds out he is still employed there? Denied. And a judge might not be too sympathetic that he tried to circumvent the employment question. Unless you can produce a tax return with self-employment substantial income I wouldn't even think of putting down self-employed.

[johnp 45]

Why would it be denied, you can have two jobs, you would be listing self-employed as your most recent job. If your references come through all good, I highly doubt they would do any digging into past employers on old permits.

 

 

*This is NOT legal advice, I am just formulating possible scenarios that might work.

[RedBowTies88 41]

I work for my father, my PD never sends anything to him or the business....

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

There has to be a legal way around this.

 

There is - make sure the police follow the law. The employment information blanks on the STS-033 are there for one reason only: That is to verify employment - nothing more. They are not a listed reference. They have no "need to know" that you wish to buy a firearm. This is an egregious breach of confidentiality and something that needs to be stopped.

 

I encourage those of you that live in municipalties that pull this crap, to make an appointment with the CLEO, mayor or a town council member and make sure they know they are opening themselves up for liability. Not too difficult to prove a monetary loss if you are treated differently at work or worse yet fired after applying for a FPID or P2P.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[jeklog 7]

My local PD does not ask my reference to have their reference questionaire to be notarized and never called or sent my employer a letter, but when purchasing the handgun person behind the counter that was helping me said that i have to fill out the employer name address and phone number.

[PK90 3,570]

It'll never happen Bob. Too many sheeple.

[BarkNBite 15]

Whats the matter with....Unemployed.......you can still get a permit.

[PK90 3,570]

Whats the matter with....Unemployed.......you can still get a permit.

It is a lie if it is not the truth.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

I guess I am proof that subtle intimidation tactics actually work.

Lately I have been thinking about getting a M1911 and a M9A1. I have actually delayed my purchases now for well over a year because I am reluctant to go through the permit process again.

 

As if it is not enough to impose upon two friends to have reference forms notarized and to arrange telephone interviews with the local PD during regular business hours, I also have to subject to having my employer notified that I am buying handguns. The Township will send a letter to my employer supposedly to “verify” the employment information that I provide on the application. However, the form has a big bold title telling everyone the reason for the verification is because I am applying for a permit to purchase a handgun.

 

 

I'm a little lost, sounds like you already have your FID card, so why would you need to resubmit reference letters and employer verification for a pistol permit? All I've ever had to do was complete the pistol permit app, and drop it off. All the ugly stuff was already completed with the FID card application.

[PK90 3,570]

I'm a little lost, sounds like you already have your FID card, so why would you need to resubmit reference letters and employer verification for a pistol permit? All I've ever had to do was complete the pistol permit app, and drop it off. All the ugly stuff was already completed with the FID card application.

 

Every application requires the reference information.

[Twospot 38]

Absolutely tell the truth. The lady that handles FID at my PD was adamant about that. I talked to her specifically about that because there was a period I had some low grade depression and saw a psych for meds. I was going back and forth whether or not I should put it down and she told me to put it down. She said if they find any discrepancy they will deny me and I would have committed a crime. So I put down everything and asked they actually contact the doc. I don't know if they did but I just got my FID.

 

I think in your situation, if you want the permits now, the PD is going to do what they want unless they are told by a higher power they can't. So they are breaking the law. On the flipside if your employer holds it against you, that is against the law as well. No one wants to go through a bunch of legal BS but if your rights are as important to you as it is to most of us, YOU FIGHT!

[TheDon 3]

Only slightly off topic, but still related:

 

<snip> ...there was a period I had some low grade depression and saw a psych for meds. ... So I put down everything and asked they actually contact the doc. <snip>

 

This was unnecessary. Seeing a doctor in order to get meds to treat depression does not count.

Question 24 clearly states: "Have you ever been confined or committed to a mental institution or hospital for treatment or observation of a mental or psychiatric condition..."

 

That is now on your record. Now, if anything ever goes wrong for you, the news reporter will be standing in your front yard describing you as having "a history of mental illness."

[Babaganoosh 192]

Only slightly off topic, but still related:

 

 

 

This was unnecessary. Seeing a doctor in order to get meds to treat depression does not count.

Question 24 clearly states: "Have you ever been confined or committed to a mental institution or hospital for treatment or observation of a mental or psychiatric condition..."

 

That is now on your record. Now, if anything ever goes wrong for you, the news reporter will be standing in your front yard describing you as having "a history of mental illness."

 

Now look at the very NEXT line of the application.

 

26) Have you ever been attended, treated or observed by any doctor or psychiatrist or at any hospital or mental

institution on an inpatient or outpatient basis for any mental or psychiatric condition? If yes, give the name and location

of the doctor, psychiatrist, hospital or institution and the date(s) of such occurrence.

 

So yeah technically he should have disclosed that information.

[RedBowTies88 41]

What I dont understand is this, if they cant deny you for being unemployed why do they bother verifying employment?

[TheDon 3]

What I dont understand is this, if they cant deny you for being unemployed why do they bother verifying employment?

 

Official reason: Local PD is responsible for verifying all information on the form.

Real reason: The State gave them the authority to do it. Since they can do it, they will do it.

[PeteF 1,044]

At my last company, a (multi-billion dollar place), they had a separate phone number run by a contracted company to do employment verifications. All that company would do was say, yes he works here or no he doesn't and that's it.

 

I think there where a bunch of law suits about companies giving out information about their employees that was somehow considered private information.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

Every application requires the reference information.

 

So, they send out letters to everybody everytime you put in a pistol permit application? My line of work gives me up to four official employers a years. The only one ever contacted was the one I was working for when I submitted my app for the FID.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

So, they send out letters to everybody everytime you put in a pistol permit application?

 

Not necessarily. Read PK90's response carefully - the information is required on every application, whether the PD acts upon it is discretionary and may depend on a number of factors. Don't forget, the same application is used (STS-033) whether it is for your FPID or if you are applying for P2P's.