Guns: Sweeney vs Christie

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

Guess Paul Mulshine spoke at a recent meeting of the NJ2AS.

 

On the gun issue, it seems that people would support Sweeney over Christie;

 

that if it comes down to a choice between Chris Christie and Senate President Steve Sweeney (D-Gloucester) in a race for governor next year, they’re going with the Democrat

 

But what is questionable is part of Paul's comment (in the comment section) about Sweeney;

 

Sweeney is an ironworker and a real regular guy who is likely to hang around with hunters.

 

Replace 'hunters' with 'FUDD's', and you catch my drift.

 

Now as a disclaimer, I will support Sweeney simply on the facts that he did not cave for Corzine on OGaM, and that he stood up to Bryan Miller of CeasefireNJ, when Miller tried to smear Sweeney as a tool of the NRA.

 

But realistically, so called 'gun rights' will never exist in NJ. The best we can hope for is 'gun friendly'. In the realm of NJ politics, we are an annoying yet some what tolerated group, think along that old line 'children should be seen but not heard'. Mommy and Daddy (in our case the State) will always know what's best for us.

 

With Christie in Trenton and Sweeney in the Senate, no anti gun bills have moved, or come up. Bryan Miller has been quiet as a church mouse, but focusing his attention in PA and MD. But on the downside, no gun friendly bills have moved either. During the Atkin fiasco, Sweeney talked about reviewing NJ's gun laws so stuff like said fiasco doesn't happen, yet this review has yet to happen.

 

Will anything happen with Sweeney as Gov? Doubt it. Nothing bad would move, but neither would anything good.

 

And that as sad as it seems, that is all that will ever happen.

 

Thoughts?

 

http://blog.nj.com/n...target_wit.html

[Dan 177]

IMO, Status quo and blocking any new do-nothing gun control laws is all we can hope for at this point. Any changes to make NJ properly recognize 2A rights (re-vamping current laws) would have to be fought in court with NJ screaming and kicking all the way.

[BarkNBite 15]

You would trust an ex- iron worker..................Ha.........been there for +25yrs..........I'd rather trust a Rattler in my pajamas.....take it from me.

[Kaiser7 33]

You would trust an ex- iron worker..................Ha.........been there for +25yrs..........I'd rather trust a Rattler in my pajamas.....take it from me.

 

I don't trust unions, or anyone associated. If he's an iron worker, he's likely union.

 

I wouldn't be quite so fatalistic on NJ gun rights as some on here have been (Ironic because I'm very much a pessimist) but I think we can make some gains with regards to our rights. The way to do that would be to "attack" with ferocity. That is, push for our rights with a lot of conviction, and work hard at it, and work on mulitple fronts, so that we start gaining ground faster than they start pushing for more restrictions.

[BigHayden 77]

I still stand by my stated position about Sweeney. He won't hurt us, but he's not likely to help us either.

[BigHayden 77]

I don't trust unions, or anyone associated. If he's an iron worker, he's likely union.

 

Likely union is an understatement. He's the president of the iron workers' union!

[mcbethr 42]

But realistically, so called 'gun rights' will never exist in NJ.

 

Not while I still have breath in my lungs, brother. Watch me.

 

I just want Larry David to play me when they come out with the movie about our success... it's all I ask.

[BarkNBite 15]

The Iron workers local here invented the term.........."gettin the shaft".........I know.....our delegates gave it to us daily and on every job.

Figure he would graduate up in the political area............he's had alot of practice givin' it......not withstanding, I'm not a Christie fan either.....1/2 man, 1/4 Dem....1/4 Republican.

 

Sweeny.......Geeezzzz.......I'd rather vote for a monkey.

[NorthernYankee 94]

I still stand by my stated position about Sweeney. He won't hurt us, but he's not likely to help us either.

 

I agree, from my interactions with him down here in SJ, he does what best suits him and makes him "look good".

[BarkNBite 15]

Yup.................as they say, "No Good Man Wants The Job".

[EchoMirage 137]

I don't trust unions, or anyone associated. If he's an iron worker, he's likely union.

 

remind me to not shake your hand if i have the displeasure if ever meeting you

[BarkNBite 15]

Ya know I always wondered about this..........we would attend union meetings and the delegates would tell you who to vote for.....Democrat, naturally.

Yet the Dems are responsible for many of the problems union workers try to cope with on a daily basis...... yet most are to dumb to understand that.

 

Our Past Delegates:

-Encouraging open door policy to immigration.

-Allowing large jobs to be awarded to non-union contractors as long as it benefits the union delegates.

-Union workers working along side open shop workers as long as it benefits the union delegates.

-My fellow ironworkers "Given the shaft" on jobs which would allow open shop workers to participate on the same job at lower costs to the owner as long as it benefits our union delegate.

-And so on and so on..............

 

An Ironworker for a politician..............Ah, Ha, ha, ha.......now that's a good one.

[Bob B 103]

The message in the article is clear - this time around, Christie will not have the 100% backing of gun owners that he did when he ran against Corzine (when he won by only 80,000 votes, and only after Marcia Karrow canvased every gun club in the state for him). If he is running, he must have the gun vote to win the next election and the same thing that got it for him the first time, Corzine and OGAM, isn't in play this time.

 

There are a number of very simple things that Christie could have done at the executive level since being elected: eliminate the illegal additional forms at the municipal PD level, mandate that municipal PD’s issue permits within 30 days as required by law, he could change the definition of “substantially identical” to exclude things like flash suppressors and bayonet lugs, he could have the AG recommend changes to the AW list (there is a provision of the AWB that asks for AG recommendations about firearms on the AW list), how about a statement from the AG that .22 rifles are not "substantially identical," he could have clearly defined “reasonable deviations” so we don’t have to worry about a 7 year prison sentence for stopping to pick up a friend on the way to the range (or stopping to eat, or use the bathroom), he could have backed off the illegal regulations to record personal data when purchasing other than HP ammo, he could stop fighting to keep one gun a month, he could stop fighting to keep the "justifiable need" clause. He has dug himself into a hole with gun owners and time is running out for him to dig himself out. I think Mr. Mulshine’s article is very clear – “Hey Gov. you’re going to lose the next election if you don’t take some simple, reasonable steps to take some of the pressure off of the legal, responsible gun owners in NJ.” No one is asking him to make it easier for criminals to have guns. All of those laws can stay in place (possession for an unlawful purpose, possession by prohibited persons, etc.). We just want a little relief for the good guys. Sweeney might be willing to do some of those things, and that's a big problem for Christie.

[Parker 213]

Guess Paul Mulshine spoke at a recent meeting of the NJ2AS.

 

On the gun issue, it seems that people would support Sweeney over Christie;

 

that if it comes down to a choice between Chris Christie and Senate President Steve Sweeney (D-Gloucester) in a race for governor next year, they’re going with the Democrat

 

But what is questionable is part of Paul's comment (in the comment section) about Sweeney;

 

Sweeney is an ironworker and a real regular guy who is likely to hang around with hunters.

 

Replace 'hunters' with 'FUDD's', and you catch my drift.

 

Now as a disclaimer, I will support Sweeney simply on the facts that he did not cave for Corzine on OGaM, and that he stood up to Bryan Miller of CeasefireNJ, when Miller tried to smear Sweeney as a tool of the NRA.

 

But realistically, so called 'gun rights' will never exist in NJ. The best we can hope for is 'gun friendly'. In the realm of NJ politics, we are an annoying yet some what tolerated group, think along that old line 'children should be seen but not heard'. Mommy and Daddy (in our case the State) will always know what's best for us.

 

With Christie in Trenton and Sweeney in the Senate, no anti gun bills have moved, or come up. Bryan Miller has been quiet as a church mouse, but focusing his attention in PA and MD. But on the downside, no gun friendly bills have moved either. During the Atkin fiasco, Sweeney talked about reviewing NJ's gun laws so stuff like said fiasco doesn't happen, yet this review has yet to happen.

 

Will anything happen with Sweeney as Gov? Doubt it. Nothing bad would move, but neither would anything good.

 

And that as sad as it seems, that is all that will ever happen.

 

Thoughts?

 

http://blog.nj.com/n...target_wit.html

 

Sweeney has at least acknowledged the value those "FUDD'S" represent to the state. (Sorry, but I find "FUDD" derogatory and divisive.) Sweeney is presumably a friend of the NJOA, the same group that courted Christie during his election campaign and put him in front of hunter groups as a "pro-hunting" advocate: http://www.njoutdoor...bd6d3a8-28.html

 

From the NJOA website -

 

Historic Day for NJ Outdoorsmen and Outdoorswomen.

 

15/12/2008 06:06

Senator Sweeney, whose Third Legislative District includes Gloucester, Cumberland and Salem counties said, “The Caucus will ensure maintenance of the State’s critical natural resources, help augment the economic boost provided by the hunting and fishing industries and advance environmental concerns by promoting healthy habitats for wildlife.” He added, “Sportsmen of New Jersey should have an outlet in the Legislature so they can explain their concerns in their own terms.”

 

Anthony P. Mauro, Sr, Chairman, New Jersey Outdoor Alliance, an organization representing anglers, hunters, trappers, foresters and other conservation-minded groups said,” It is truly a historic day. The Caucus will provide opportunities for legislators, outdoorsmen and outdoorswomen to share information and to educate and inspire each other about the challenges and possibilities of New Jersey’s forest, marine, fish and wildlife resources. We applaud the insight and initiative of Senator Sweeney and the member legislators.”

It was noted during the meeting that anglers, hunters and trappers are a vital economic benefit for the state. Their purchase of outdoor-related equipment, licenses, tags and incidentals such as gas, tolls, food and lodging contribute 1 billion dollars to New Jersey’s economy. These sales directly support sixteen thousand jobs and generate approximately $109,000,000 in state and local taxes.

 

For more information contact:

Senator Stephen M. Sweeney

(856) 251-9801 Or

Anthony P. Mauro, Sr., NJOA (732) 332-9800

 

 

Anthony P. Mauro, Sr.

Chairman, New Jersey Outdoor Alliance: "The voice of the conservationist."

www.njoutdooralliance.org

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Someday the heavens will open up, the light will shine upon those 20,000 "FUDD'S" who read the forum on NewJerseyHunter.com and they will shake hands with New Jersey's 2A proponents, sporting clay bon vivants, the blackpowder, highpower, USPSA, and IPSC shooters, and all will get religion and march on Trenton and let their voices be heard.

 

Until that day comes, nothing will ever change in New Jersey.

 

 

PS - You should post this same message on NewJerseyHunter.com

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

hate to bust everyone's bubble, but the only reason why Christie won, is that Corzine was so hated, that the Blue machine was unable to get out the vote in Blue strongholds like Bergen, Essex, and Hudson counties. Dem's just did not vote during the last election.

 

Will they support Sweeney? Even though North Jersey Dem's don't like him, they hate Christie even more.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

(Sorry, but I find "FUDD" derogatory and divisive.)

 

light will shine upon those 20,000 "FUDD'S" who read the forum on NewJerseyHunter.com and they will shake hands with New Jersey's 2A proponents,

 

'FUDD' is meant to be derogatory and divisive. It is not a sweeping term for all hunters. Only the ones who don't see how the gun grabbers view their hunting rifles/shotguns as 'intermediate sniper rifles'

 

NewJerseyHunter.com is pretty FUDD free from what I've seen. I've seen people get eaten alive for being FUDDy over there.

[Parker 213]

hate to bust everyone's bubble, but the only reason why Christie won, is that Corzine was so hated, that the Blue machine was unable to get out the vote in Blue strongholds like Bergen, Essex, and Hudson counties. Dem's just did not vote during the last election.

 

Will they support Sweeney? Even though North Jersey Dem's don't like him, they hate Christie even more.

Corzine won the majority of the vote in Bergen County. Christie had a strong showing here, but he lost.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

Corzine won the majority of the vote in Bergen County. Christie had a strong showing here, but he lost.

 

True, but the Blue vote was down.

 

Hudson County was Blue to, but the Blue vote was only a fraction of what it normally is/was.

[Bob B 103]

hate to bust everyone's bubble, but the only reason why Christie won, is that Corzine was so hated, that the Blue machine was unable to get out the vote in Blue strongholds like Bergen, Essex, and Hudson counties. Dem's just did not vote during the last election.

 

Will they support Sweeney? Even though North Jersey Dem's don't like him, they hate Christie even more.

 

Agreed. The election will be more dynamic than just this one issue, but I think Mr. Mulshine's point was only that Christie can't win without the gun vote, and I think he's right. The fact that Christie had Marcia Karrow out campaigning at gun clubs last election means that he knows that too.

[MarkWVU02 47]

 

 

remind me to not shake your hand if i have the displeasure if ever meeting you

 

+1 In his defense he is a young kid that probably doesn't know any better. I hope he doesn't take a "union" job in the future. That cuts out the trades, police, fire, teaching, and a plethora of other jobs out there. It's amazing how quickly people forget why we have unions in the first place.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

Agreed. The election will be more dynamic than just this one issue, but I think Mr. Mulshine's point was only that Christie can't win without the gun vote, and I think he's right. The fact that Christie had Marcia Karrow out campaigning at gun clubs last election means that he knows that too.

 

This 'gun vote'. Here in NJ, can it really run along party lines? It would make an interesting survey to find out.

 

But more importantly, is there even a 'gun vote' in NJ? On this very forum it was discussed in the past on if anybody voted along 2A lines, and the vast majority admitted that 2A issues did not come up with regards to what was important went it came time to vote. Maybe things have changed? Who knows.

[Parker 213]

'FUDD' is meant to be derogatory and divisive. It is not a sweeping term for all hunters. Only the ones who don't see how the gun grabbers view their hunting rifles/shotguns as 'intermediate sniper rifles'

 

NewJerseyHunter.com is pretty FUDD free from what I've seen. I've seen people get eaten alive for being FUDDy over there.

NJ wouldn't be NJ unless it was divisive. The somewhat new NJOA group at times is at odds with the old guard Federation group that oversee/recommend hunting seasons and regulations.

[Bob B 103]

1,000,000 gun owners in NJ. Christie won by 80,000 votes. The gun vote doesn't have to be every gun owner. If 10% will change their vote based on 2A issues, it can alter the election. The fact that there is debate and not consensus among gun owners about who they will vote for is a problem for Christie. My impression of the last election was that just about every gun owner that I talked to had an "anyone but Corzine" approach, especially after OGAM. I don't get the impression that they will be thinking "anyone but Sweeney."

 

If, on the other hand, Christie makes some of those needed changes, he may keep some or even most of those "gun votes" that he got last time. It's just math, and Christie, by doing nothing, is working the wrong side of the equation.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

NJ wouldn't be NJ unless it was divisive. The somewhat new NJOA group at times is at odds with the old guard Federation group that oversee/recommend hunting seasons and regulations.

 

Sort of like the gun culture 01 vs gun culture 02 debate......

[raz-0 1,260]

This 'gun vote'. Here in NJ, can it really run along party lines? It would make an interesting survey to find out.

 

But more importantly, is there even a 'gun vote' in NJ? On this very forum it was discussed in the past on if anybody voted along 2A lines, and the vast majority admitted that 2A issues did not come up with regards to what was important went it came time to vote. Maybe things have changed? Who knows.

 

I would vote along 2a lines if there was actually something that differentiated a candidate. It's not that people wouldn't vote on that issue, it's that as far as i can tell it almost never is an option. I can recall a couple times in primaries, but that's about it. And yes, I voted my single issue line.

[johnp 45]

Maybe this is the "kick in the a**" Christie needs to make some positive changes for gun owners. But on the other hand he might not even care about re-election, I've read some stories that he might be running in 2016 since he turned down the idea this year.

[hopper 36]

1,000,000 gun owners in NJ. Christie won by 80,000 votes. The gun vote doesn't have to be every gun owner. If 10% will change their vote based on 2A issues, it can alter the election. The fact that there is debate and not consensus among gun owners about who they will vote for is a problem for Christie. My impression of the last election was that just about every gun owner that I talked to had an "anyone but Corzine" approach, especially after OGAM. I don't get the impression that they will be thinking "anyone but Sweeney." If, on the other hand, Christie makes some of those needed changes, he may keep some or even most of those "gun votes" that he got last time. It's just math, and Christie, by doing nothing, is working the wrong side of the equation.

So when is NJ2AS booking Christie for a speaking engagement ????????

[Parker 213]

Sort of like the gun culture 01 vs gun culture 02 debate......

I must have missed that debate. I'm a firm believer in all or nothing, at least the circles I travel in. Take away one right and all the others follow. There is no quarter or compromise.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

I must have missed that debate. I'm a firm believer in all or nothing, at least the circles I travel in. Take away one right and all the others follow. There is no quarter or compromise.

 

Basically Michael Bane came up with terms. Gun Culture 1.0 and Gun Culture 2.0

 

Gun Culture 1.0;

 

people entered Gun Culture 1.0 through their families, especially hunting, and through military service

 

Gun Culture 2.0

 

people enter Gun Culture 2.0 largely through personal defense concerns and concealed carry

 

It is said that Gun Culture 1.0 is populated by the older generation who run the clubs, hang out at the clubs and snicker at modern firearms, and are the guys who use single shot, or bolt action rifles who take up space at the range and fire one round every 20mins or so. Where as Gun Culture 2.0 is the next generation (sometimes considered younger as in 20s) who are into the modern guns AR's and AK's. Who like run and gun sports.

 

There has been whole write ups about the clash of these two groups.

[Parker 213]

Basically Michael Bane came up with terms. Gun Culture 1.0 and Gun Culture 2.0

 

Gun Culture 1.0;

 

people entered Gun Culture 1.0 through their families, especially hunting, and through military service

 

Gun Culture 2.0

 

people enter Gun Culture 2.0 largely through personal defense concerns and concealed carry

 

It is said that Gun Culture 1.0 is populated by the older generation who run the clubs, hang out at the clubs and snicker at modern firearms, and are the guys who use single shot, or bolt action rifles who take up space at the range and fire one round every 20mins or so. Where as Gun Culture 2.0 is the next generation (sometimes considered younger as in 20s) who are into the modern guns AR's and AK's. Who like run and gun sports.

 

There has been whole write ups about the clash of these two groups.

I had to Google Michael Bane. I did not know who he is.

 

As for that argument, I could believe some of that, although a lot of 1.0 folks like myself grew up knowing what an M14 and an M16 was and certainly don't disparage anyone owning one. I guess I've never experienced any evidence of these "clashes."