Question about sighting in an AR

[Justjules 0]

I had a question about sighting in my new AR. I have the magpul flip up sights and recently went to Shore Shot to sight it in, and the range master there (x military for 30 years) was very very helpful and walked me through the entire process. When I was done I noticed that for me to hit center on the target at 25 yards my rear sight had to be set almost as far as it goes to the left...Is this normal to happen of is it me or the gun that is off?? With the sight in the center position, the bullets will and far right on the target.

I am left handed, dont know if that matters. If you feel it is the gun could it be the sights are not installed square on the rail or something with the assembly of the gun??

 

Thanks in advance.

[lunker 274]

If you have a bad cheek weld on the stock (i.e. your left eye should be nearly over the centerline of the rifle), that could account for your rear sight having to be all the way to the left. Is it possible you are craning your head too far over the stock to allow your right eye to see through the sight?

Borrowing a friend's flip-up sights and throwing them on your rifle would tell you if it's you or your rifle/sights.

[Justjules 0]

If you have a bad cheek weld on the stock (i.e. your left eye should be nearly over the centerline of the rifle), that could account for your rear sight having to be all the way to the left. Is it possible you are craning your head too far over the stock to allow your right eye to see through the sight?

Borrowing a friend's flip-up sights and throwing them on your rifle would tell you if it's you or your rifle/sights.

 

Im left handed, I use my left eye or is that incorrect should i be using my right??

[mcbethr 42]

If you can

If you have a bad cheek weld on the stock (i.e. your left eye should be nearly over the centerline of the rifle), that could account for your rear sight having to be all the way to the left.

 

Use your left eye if that is what you are comfortable with.

 

I would reset your sight to battlesight zero (the center). Try putting your nose on the tip of the charging handle and re-zero. That should get your head to the right place.

[JonF 79]

Iron sights are just a simple mechanical alignment so unless you're flinching hard every time, it could be some misalignment issue with your rifle. HAve you tried shooting off a bench rest to eliminate you as the culprit?

 

Barring any issues with your shooting, what are the specs of your rifle? A-frame front sight or matching MBUS on a quad rail or railed gas block? If the latter, perhaps the front is "off" due to the quad rail or gas block being off-center or canted. Some free float rail systems simple screw onto a threaded barrel nut that you clock and lock. Clamp on gas blocks have no inherent alignment mechanism and can be easily misaligned when installed.

[Justjules 0]

Iron sights are just a simple mechanical alignment so unless you're flinching hard every time, it could be some misalignment issue with your rifle. HAve you tried shooting off a bench rest to eliminate you as the culprit?

I was shooting off a bench..

Barring any issues with your shooting, what are the specs of your rifle? A-frame front sight or matching MBUS on a quad rail or railed gas block? If the latter, perhaps the front is "off" due to the quad rail or gas block being off-center or canted. Some free float rail systems simple screw onto a threaded barrel nut that you clock and lock. Clamp on gas blocks have no inherent alignment mechanism and can be easily misaligned when installed.

 

This is what Im thinking..

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Im left handed, I use my left eye or is that incorrect should i be using my right??

 

Depends on which is the dominant eye. You may be cross-eye dominant (left-handed, but right eye dominant or vice versa). Check for eye dominance first.

[Justjules 0]

Depends on which is the dominant eye. You may be cross-eye dominant (left-handed, but right eye dominant or vice versa). Check for eye dominance first.

How is that done?

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

The simplest method is: With both eyes open, point at an object with your index finger. Now close your right eye. Is your finger still pointing to the object?, Then you are left eye dominant. If your finger moves off the object, repeat, but close your left eye. If you are still pointing to the object, you are right eye dominant.

 

There are other more exacting (complicated) methods, but this is simplest. If the results are not clear-cut using this method, Google "eye dominance test" and take your pick of the results.

 

HTH

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Justjules 0]

The simplest method is: With both eyes open, point at an object with your index finger. Now close your right eye. Is your finger still pointing to the object?, Then you are left eye dominant. If your finger moves off the object, repeat, but close your left eye. If you are still pointing to the object, you are right eye dominant.

 

There are other more exacting (complicated) methods, but this is simplest. If the results are not clear-cut using this method, Google "eye dominance test" and take your pick of the results.

 

HTH

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

Shows I am right eye dominant, but have been shooting rifles with my left eye...Might be the issue.

[NJdiverTony 27]

Just a question and not trying to be a wiseass... but as long as he's hitting the bullseye, does it matter if the rear sight is off center?

[Vlad G 345]

I have a serious problem with handguard mounted sights, the odds of the handguard being perfectly mounted and never moving are low.

[Justjules 0]

Just a question and not trying to be a wiseass... but as long as he's hitting the bullseye, does it matter if the rear sight is off center?

 

I was thinking the same thing, but then I figured what if I had to make adjustments for wind? Im now wondering if I shot the gun with my right eye if it would be far off center. Probably right?

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Shows I am right eye dominant, but have been shooting rifles with my left eye...Might be the issue.

 

Probably. Being cross-eye dominant can be problematic shooting a rifle - a little easier with a handgun. You should be sighting with the dominant eye. There are three ways to address this:

 

1) Learn to shoot right handed

2) Learn to contort your left handed shooting position so that you are sighting with the right eye

 

and, the easiest...

 

3) Learn to shoot with both eyes open

 

Good luck

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[mcbethr 42]

I was thinking the same thing, but then I figured what if I had to make adjustments for wind? Im now wondering if I shot the gun with my right eye if it would be far off center. Probably right?

 

Well, you wouldn't necessarily make wind adjustments with the rear sight. I've shot out to 300 yards before with both a 16 and 20 inch AR which is about the best you can hope for with iron sights (although Marines traditionally shoot out to 500 yards with them). At 300 yards and in wind doesn't really factor that much at "our" (and my "our" I mean recreational as opposed to sniper) level.

 

If you shoot with your right eye, it could be a little off to the right...

 

Does your sight picture look like this?

 

 

The front sight should be clear. The rear sight should be a little fuzzy and the target should be a little fuzzy as well.

[specopsscout 26]

Eye dominance issue is a fairly rare thing. For some reason, half the shooters who do the finger test, think they are cross dominant when they are not. If you find yourself naturally using your left eye when you are left handed, it's because you aren't cross dominant. if you were cross dominant, you would in most cases be trying to use the opposite eye unconciously, as that is how your brain would process the information. Like when you shoot a pistol, it's in your left hand. Do you naturally squint your left eye and site in with your right? I doubt it. When it comes to rifles, there is no new positon for a cross dominant shooter to use. You shoot with the rifle mounted to the same shoulder as the dominant eye, and your nondominant hand becomes your shooting hand...

 

As it applies to close range tactical shooting, you should really be comfortable with shooting with either eye and either hand, which takes practice. As you move through a built up area, be it in CQB/MOUT ect, you should be transitioning the rifle back and forth between shoulders to maximize the use of cover and concealment and minimize you as a target, like when clearing corners and dead space...

 

I'd start with the easiest common denominator and try using a different set of sites. Yes, they are Magpul, which in some circles relates to an almost religious zeal, but they are basically mass manufactured PLASTIC sites. The weren't even built to function as a primary sighting system. They are an inexpensive back up site. I'd start with them and move on from there. You would really have to be dicking your shooting position up, and doing it consistently(which goes against the whole dicked up thing) to have it be you that is causing the big shift...

 

As it applies to your forward rail, if it required that much correction at so short a range, it would be very obviously canted to one side. Look down on rifle from the top and follow the machined rail on the upper reciever onto the rail of the float tube. Look how the lines flow and see if it looks obviously off kilter, like the upper reciever being at twelve o'clock, while the rail is halfway to eleven or one. if it all looks correct, then revert back to the sites, and try a new set...

[Justjules 0]

I shoot a pistol with my right eye. Rifle left...Im all screwed up.

[vladtepes 1,060]

remember when I told you about the UTG rail.. and the combination of parts.. and all that..

 

well the front plastic sight.. is mounted to that UTG rail..

 

if that thing is not seated well.. if it is moving even the slightest bit.. the error will be magnified down range..

 

if you are mounting lights.. grips.. etc.. no issue with the rail selection really.. as long as it holds up..

if you are mounting sights.. optics.. etc.. that thing needs to be ROCK SOLID..

 

NOT saying that is your issue.. but just saying..

[Anselmo 87]

D

remember when I told you about the UTG rail.. and the combination of parts.. and all that..

 

well the front plastic sight.. is mounted to that UTG rail..

 

if that thing is not seated well.. if it is moving even the slightest bit.. the error will be magnified down range..

 

if you are mounting lights.. grips.. etc.. no issue with the rail selection really.. as long as it holds up..

if you are mounting sights.. optics.. etc.. that thing needs to be ROCK SOLID..

 

NOT saying that is your issue.. but just saying..

 

How do you know Jules has a flattop? Maybe I missed that but it's a good point by Vlad. Do you have an A2 post permanently attached or a flip up front sight that is bolted on the rail? Makes sense to me that the front sight should be mounted to the gas block, not the rail.

[vladtepes 1,060]

read his other post..

 

Spike Tactical Lower reciever

Stag Upper

EFX Tactical stock

UTG Quad rail system

MBUS Magpul flip up sights

Tactical bag

 

he has plastic magpul sights.. I dont know if they should really be mounted to the block.. in fact I am pretty sure they are intended for rail mount..

mounting sights to a rail is fine.. providing the rail has a rock solid lock up and is straight..

[Anselmo 87]

read his other post..

 

 

 

he has plastic magpul sights.. I dont know if they should really be mounted to the block.. in fact I am pretty sure they are intended for rail mount..

mounting sights to a rail is fine.. providing the rail has a rock solid lock up and is straight..

 

you're right. I might have read that the plastic could melt on the gas block.

[vladtepes 1,060]

just to really be SUPER clear.. (to Jules) think about this..

 

you have a rail made by a manufacture that is mid to low level as far as quality..

this rail is mounted to your gun..

on the bottom is a handle.. at which point you are applying force..

when the gun shoots.. the rail is absorbing force.. you are trying to hold it in place by the handle..

on the direct other side of the rail is your front sight post..

 

do you think it is possible with all that movement the rail might move a little?

if the rail moves.. so does your front sight post..

 

every time it moves you are losing zero slightly..

 

these are the types of factors that play into overall quality of the weapon.. these are items we would likely have told you not to buy..

to be honest I am not familiar with the current run of UTG products.. some say they are decent.. some say they are shit... but at any rate.. I would have told you to get a gas block mounted BUIS in the front.. made by a quality company...

 

your sights.. and how they are mounted.. are likely one of the single most important parts of the gun.. if the sights are not quality.. if they do not stay put.. nothing else matters.. because you wont consistently hit anything..

[Justjules 0]

How do I make sure the sights are squarely mounted to the rail for certain? FWIW Once I got the gun sighted in the grouping is very tight so it is not moving from shot to shot, it just took a ton of rear sight adjustment to get it centered. So either the gun is shooting crooked and Im making up for it by sighting it to the left, or me using my left eye on the rifle fire is screwing me up, cause I do shoot right eyed on the handgun from a left handed stance, left foot back right foot forward.

 

Or the sight could not be fully square, Ill check into that. However the front mounted lazer sight was dead on the money out of the box..Weird..

[JackDaWack 2,895]

What do you focus your eyes on... the target or the front sight? Man so many different variables here... plastic sights, cheek weld, hand guard, point of focus.....

 

If i had to guess i would say your rail is tweaked... Does the barrel exit the hand guard symmetrically? You could measure the gap from all 4 sides. This can be a huge issue with bolt on rails if you don't torque the screws down in proper sequence. Even my $300 DD lite rail could potentially be crooked if it wasn't torqued properly, and figure a very small angle at the barrel nut turns into a few mm when you get 9" down the rail.

[vladtepes 1,060]

How do I make sure the sights are squarely mounted to the rail for certain? FWIW Once I got the gun sighted in the grouping is very tight so it is not moving from shot to shot, it just took a ton of rear sight adjustment to get it centered. So either the gun is shooting crooked and Im making up for it by sighting it to the left, or me using my left eye on the rifle fire is screwing me up, cause I do shoot right eyed on the handgun from a left handed stance, left foot back right foot forward.

 

Or the sight could not be fully square, Ill check into that. However the front mounted lazer sight was dead on the money out of the box..Weird..

 

we really dont know for sure...

 

as stated it just needs to be torqued down correctly.. and there is not a doubt in my mind that it is solid at the moment.. but keep in mind as you USE the gun you may see things loosen up.. and you now have to make sure it is not messed up.. this is why I prefer a gas block mounted sight.. which is what I would have likely recommended to you ..

 

if you really had to adjust the rear that much.. then I would guess that something about the rail system is not right.. as pointed out.. if that thing is clocked even a few degrees the sight will be all out of whack as well..

[KpdPipes 388]

Just a question and not trying to be a wiseass... but as long as he's hitting the bullseye, does it matter if the rear sight is off center?

With an AR and Irons?? Not really, unless he's going to be shooting matches..however it MAY be an indication of an ergonomic issue with his position, or hold, or even an issue with the rifle itself.

[Justjules 0]

With an AR and Irons?? Not really, unless he's going to be shooting matches..however it MAY be an indication of an ergonomic issue with his position, or hold, or even an issue with the rifle itself.

 

Well I put a cheap red dot sight on there for now until I get a good decent one, and keep in mind it mounts only on the rear portion of the rail and I get the same results, so the rail being tweaked is out of the question. I have to adjust it to the point it co-witnesses the iron sights to get where I want to be. Im convinced it is simply me shooting left handed and being right eye dominant. My buddy shot my gun with the iron sights and he couldnt hit a thing..lol

[Vlad G 345]

A red dot is a vastly different aiming system then iron sights. It only has one aiming plane instead of the two bits of the iron sights. You can mount a red dot 90 degrees off to a side and it will still shoot just fine at the range you zero'ed so the rail being mis aligned or not has nothing to do with it. A number of people gave you the answer already, stop putting a plastic sight on a cheap handguard (or any sight on any handguard really) if you want it to hold zero.

 

Plus your last statement makes NO sense, you can't blame it on your shooting style and eyes and then say your buddy couldn't hit a thing too, unless he has the identical same problem you do.

 

Basically you made some poor choices in your rifle built. Spend $100 on a decent barrel mounted front sight. You can fix the problem and accept you made a mistake or you can blame it on things outside your control, your choice.

[Justjules 0]

I can shoot fine with it,very good grouping, just the rear sight is adjusted to the left. When my right eye dominant right handed friend shot it, he could not hit the paper with it the way the sights are set.

 

Wy is it that I can shoot it fine, and I am left handed but right eye dominant. But right handed people who are right hand dominant cant hit with it?? Cant be the gun.

[KpdPipes 388]

You got me Jules...Without actually seeing the rifle, and you shooting it, I dont know what to tell you..Like I said, as long as it works for YOU No harm no foul, but from what ive seen over a LONG period of instructing is that what might start out as a small bad habit, or easily fixed posture issue just exacerbates over time.