Treating Range Accident?

[vladtepes 1,060]

to start off... I am NOT a medical professional and I suffer from no delusion that should an accident occur I would be able to magically help myself or others..

 

*with that said.. what SHOULD be in a first aid kit that goes with you to the range..

*what are some things of importance to know when dealing with a gun shot wound..

 

I would rather know something than nothing.. I have a basic medical kit.. but some peroxide and a band aid are not going to really be of much help to someone shot in the leg (for example)..

 

Obviously the information you provide me with is for informational purposes only and would not be considered instruction therefore of no real liability scenario..

 

I promise to not sue you if I try to help someone who is shot and they die..

looking to keep kit small and light as it will be attached to my chest rig..

 

 

Thanks in advance..

[JamesC 2]

Vlad - I usually carry some tourniquet material and quickclot to treat gross flesh wounds and arterial bleeds. Nitrile gloves and a CPR mask/barrier are a must. I also keep a trauma bag in the car in the event we need to stabilize before help arrives.I also suggest EMT shears to clear clothing from the wound, roller gauze, and splinting materials. Beyond that, standard band aids, medical tape and antibiotic ointment are good choices.

[destro23 0]

add tampons to above... my cars first aid kit even has them in it to place on small wound. Along with a wrap to put some pressure on it as your being transported to hospital! But i'll start tearing up when they take my blood.... so me and medical emergency help don't go well... JamesC Def some good things you mention!

[JamesC 2]

As far as how to handle a GSW, the biggest thing that we as civilians can do is control bleeding and treat for shock.

 

That means applying pressure to bleeding wounds with gloves, sterile gauze, anything to slow the bleeding. If the bleed is coming from an artery or major vein system, mechanical advantage may be needed to slow the artery - making a tourniquet with something solid to "screw" the tourniquet tight, just above the bleeding site (closest to body). Release the tourniquet very 10-15 minutes for about a minute to try to preserve as much tissue as possible.

 

In the event of an amputation scenario, infection is the most dangerous condition to consider. Police the missing appendage and immediately place on ice and transport with the victim. Use anything clean and sterile to cover to the wound area on the victim - treat as others specified above.

 

Shock is the condition most people won't recognize but is still dangerous. Placing the person's legs above their heart and keeping them warm with blankets, jackets, or sleeping bags will help the victim stay with you while waiting for emergency services.

 

It goes without saying, the single most important thig to do is to call 911 as soon as humanly possible to get the EMS process moving towards you in the least amount of time.

[Duppie 73]

In addition to a basic first aid kit, I also carry a eyewash kit which includes a sterile saline solution and a eye cup.

[Recon Racoon 49]

to start off... I am NOT a medical professional and I suffer from no delusion that should an accident occur I would be able to magically help myself or others..

 

*with that said.. what SHOULD be in a first aid kit that goes with you to the range..

*what are some things of importance to know when dealing with a gun shot wound..

 

I would rather know something than nothing.. I have a basic medical kit.. but some peroxide and a band aid are not going to really be of much help to someone shot in the leg (for example)..

 

Obviously the information you provide me with is for informational purposes only and would not be considered instruction therefore of no real liability scenario..

 

I promise to not sue you if I try to help someone who is shot and they die..

looking to keep kit small and light as it will be attached to my chest rig..

 

 

Thanks in advance..

Tampons (Both applicator and pad)

Quick clot

Pressure Bandage

Iodine Wipes

Sterile Gause

Nitrile Gloves (non allergenic for those allergic to latex)

Something to treat minor burns

Tweezers

 

Thats what I'd get. But I'm not a professional either, but I've heard enough from professionals over my short time on Earth to know to NOT use a Tourniquet unless the only option is to let them bleed out. Even then, you had better damn well know what you're doing. Thats why I included a pressure bandage. Minimal chance of a fatal clot making its way to the heart. Plus Quick Clot makes a pressure bandage with their coagulant formula on it. In a pinch the feminine pads can be made into a make shift trauma bandage with some gause and ACE wrap. Tampax are for penetrating wounds deep enough to need it (like a GSW).

 

Like I said, I'm not a professional, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. This is just what I'd use for simple, bare bones.

[bhunted 887]

Haven't heard anyone say get certified first. Nothing wrong with getting a first aid course, advance course, cpr and some other classes. I know I could use some updates since I've been in the squad... Then go out and get a nice bag set up.

I have a well stocked bag in my truck and my motorcycle as well as one at the house, etc. I'd also like to think most ranges have qualified personnel onboard with kits available.

 

 

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[Recon Racoon 49]

Haven't heard anyone say get certified first. Nothing wrong with getting a first aid course, advance course, cpr and some other classes. I know I could use some updates since I've been in the squad... Then go out and get a nice bag set up.

I have a well stocked bag in my truck and my motorcycle as well as one at the house, etc. I'd also like to think most ranges have qualified personnel onboard with kits available.

 

 

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If he wants to get certs, then he should just run the gambit and go to school for EMT-B. Or hook up with a volunteer squad. They'll pay for you to go to school, you just have to maintain a certain run percentage. Then there's CPR, First Aid and I think one or two more, but what you're talking about most likely won't be covered in those courses.

[bhunted 887]

You're right. But it's a start. Better than not knowing anything. My wife was an EMT for years... So got quite enough experience here. I did Rescue and First Aid... But most won't know how to use most of the things correctly needed to be stocked for those types of injuries.

 

If he wants to get certs, then he should just run the gambit and go to school for EMT-B. Or hook up with a volunteer squad. They'll pay for you to go to school, you just have to maintain a certain run percentage. Then there's CPR, First Aid and I think one or two more, but what you're talking about most likely won't be covered in those courses.

 

 

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[vladtepes 1,060]

obviously I would love to have training.. obviously I would love to have training dealing with all kinds of medical emergencies... unfortunately I work a 50+ hour a week job and there is no reasonable free time for that any time soon.. such is life...

 

my intention is to be better prepared than to be not prepared at all.. if that makes sense..

[Recon Racoon 49]

But most won't know how to use most of the things correctly needed to be stocked for those types of injuries.

I don't know how to do a lot of things medical. I like to say I know enough to be dangerous. Most of the stuff I've picked up has been hanging around the local firehouse and my dad. He's been an EMT/Firefighter for 30+ years. My uncle's done it for a good 35+ years, and my grandfather did it for 20+ years. So, bound to pick up a few things lol.

 

I've been thinking about doing EMT school, I just can't handle the human suffering side of things.

[Recon Racoon 49]

obviously I would love to have training.. obviously I would love to have training dealing with all kinds of medical emergencies... unfortunately I work a 50+ hour a week job and there is no reasonable free time for that any time soon.. such is life...

 

my intention is to be better prepared than to be not prepared at all.. if that makes sense..

Totally understand. If you can eek out the free time, at least take a First Aid course. Its better than nothing. I also have a few e-books on First Aid and Field Medicine if you'd want to take a look at those.

[emt1231 0]

JamesC, if you tourniquet you never release it that is why you only do it when you must. Best thing to do is call 9-1-1 right away before you do anything else.

[tony357 386]

I took the quick clot course at gun for hire last winter, it was extremely informative..

[bhunted 887]

If what you mean, suffering part. The training is one thing. The real life scenario is another. What you can take while watching from an audience pov is not the same as needing to take action. Instinct kicks in, adrenaline, etc. you just do it and puke later.

 

I can't speak much being out of it so long. I'm sure there are enough first responders around here that can enlighten you on up to date prep.

I can say my first worse scenario was at 17... 2 murdered victims, teen and his girlfriend. Took weeks for it to kick in... Then nightmares for years. 2nd was at 18 arriving at at jack knifed tractor trailer. Driver was already on the ground, and his brain matter was hanging out. More nightmares... All of which went away. From that point on, adrenaline took over and my only goal was to fix the problem and try saving lives. So being prepared with the right gear is great. But learning to be prepared to handle it takes some guts and will power. Lot of my buds that went the emt route never made it passed their first autopsy.

You need to be ready to handle these things... Squeamish you cannot be.

 

I don't know how to do a lot of things medical. I like to say I know enough to be dangerous. Most of the stuff I've picked up has been hanging around the local firehouse and my dad. He's been an EMT/Firefighter for 30+ years. My uncle's done it for a good 35+ years, and my grandfather did it for 20+ years. So, bound to pick up a few things lol.

 

I've been thinking about doing EMT school, I just can't handle the human suffering side of things.

 

 

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[PK90 3,570]

My Kit: Wawa napkins and a cell phone.

[djg0770 481]

My Kit: Wawa napkins and a cell phone.

 

Add a roll of tape (duct or electrical) and we can fix a bunch of shit long enough to get appropriate attention whether medical or automotive.

 

From my now long expired first aid training, we as first aiders should NEVER tourniquet.

[emt1231 0]

They allow tourniquets now, they went with the life over limb approach... Now if they only allowed us to use quick clot in NJ...

[pbkid6974 1]

i took my emt class when i was in high school. but never really got into running with the local squad. they treated me like shit when i would ask questions so i just stopped showing up. it was a crappy thing to do since they did pay for the class but i wasnt about to be treated like an asshole because i was trying to get familiar with the rigs and get more information than what the class was teaching.

 

that being said i did learn a lot about from the class even though it was time consuming. i feel confident that should an emergency arise i could preform and do more good than harm. first thing is to call 911, then control the bleeding and treat for shock. thats basically all you are expected to do.

 

and if it came down to it, personally i would rather lose a leg from a tourniquet then my life from blood loss. if you cant control the bleeding and ems hasnt arrived, apply it. even a belt works. some people might not agree but thats just me.

[Recon Racoon 49]

i took my emt class when i was in high school. but never really got into running with the local squad. they treated me like shit when i would ask questions so i just stopped showing up. it was a crappy thing to do since they did pay for the class but i wasnt about to be treated like an asshole because i was trying to get familiar with the rigs and get more information than what the class was teaching.

 

that being said i did learn a lot about from the class even though it was time consuming. i feel confident that should an emergency arise i could preform and do more good than harm. first thing is to call 911, then control the bleeding and treat for shock. thats basically all you are expected to do.

 

and if it came down to it, personally i would rather lose a leg from a tourniquet then my life from blood loss. if you cant control the bleeding and ems hasnt arrived, apply it. even a belt works. some people might not agree but thats just me.

Some squads are hinky like that. But a new guy should never be treated like crap. I'd rather answer all your questions as long as you're willing to learn than treat you like a stupid kid that needs hand holding. Things shouldn't be handled that way, but sometimes they are. And its sad, but it just happens like that sometimes.

 

As for a tourniquet, if you can control the bleeding just from pressure to the wound, don't use one on me. I like my arms and legs where they are. But if it looks like I got one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel, I'd rather roll around with one leg or walk around with one arm than wake up dead.

[GeorgeHM 5]

First off some form of training will help the most, second is the gear. In a first aid kit I would have gloves, ace bandage, 4x4 glaze pads, alcohol wipes, and band-aides.

[Arbelest 29]

A lot of the info on here is good. My two cents is for gun shots, SCENE SAFETY not all gun shots are accidental.

 

After you check for safety trauma pads and apply direct pressure onto the wound and hold it there. Talk to the person if their conscious ask them simple questions, name date of birth, who is the president, day of the week, if their on medication (blood thinners). If the trauma pad/2x4 gauze pads or whatever you have become blood soaked (mostly likely the wound will still be bleeding) keep the first pad on the wound and add another on top. You do not want to remove the original one. Using roller gauze you can secure the pads to the wound and by applying twists in the roller gauze over the wound area extra pressure will be applied.

 

After that getting the person to a hospital quickly is the best thing. Depending where I am and where the gunshot is I would transport them ASAP to the nearest hospital rather than waiting for an ambulance. I have talked to multiple LEO's about their wishes if they get shot, most of them want to be transported by their co-workers to Cooper Trauma and not wait for an ambulance. (Cooper Trauma is the best and only Level 1 Trauma Center in the Camden/Gloucester County area for those of your readers up north).

 

Some important things to think of anything near the back/spine do not move the person keep them in the position you find them, risking a spinal column injury from moving the patient is not worth it. You could paralyze the person. If there is a lot of blood from due to the location, major vein/artery a tourniquet will be a very good choice. Youtube has videos that show you how to apply tourniquets.

 

I am a volunteer EMT for an active 9-1-1 EMS agency. Any other questions I will do my best to answer them for you in regards to techniques and procedures. Most of the gear listed above that is repeated are good items to have in a first aid kit.

[Tosser 61]

This is my area of expertise. I do this for a living. I hold numerous instructional certifications and train my fellow first responders. I have treated people who have been shot, stabbed, etc MANY times, some times successful sometimes not.

 

In your mind you need to separate a "blow out" or GSW Kit etc from a boo-boo kit.

 

Obviously get professional training first, but don't be disappointed when you go to the American Red Cross, take a first aid class, and don't come out with the knowledge how to truly handle a serious injury (GSW or other penetrating trauma) They will provide you with a strong base to move forward with.

 

 

Initially you want to ensure the area is safe. This mean disarm the individual who is wounded and throw on some gloves (nitrile are the industry standard)

 

Treat obvious external hemorrhage (think squirting blood)

 

Assuming its a GSW to a limb and there is arterial bleeding (squirting blood) you should tourniquet(TQ).

 

 

tourniquets are used for HOURS in the operating room. There have been documented cases where TQ have been in place for 24hrs in Afghanistan and the limb was maintained. So don't be afraid to use one.(in NJ you are never more than 1hr from a trauma center by ground, even quicker by air) Placement should be as close to the wound as possible (think 1-2" above) and should stop the arterial spray. If the spray hasn't stopped you need to tighten the TQ or reapply.

 

more to follow later.

[Tosser 61]

 

Some important things to think of anything near the back/spine do not move the person keep them in the position you find them, risking a spinal column injury from moving the patient is not worth it. You could paralyze the person. If there is a lot of blood from due to the location, major vein/artery a tourniquet will be a very good choice. Youtube has videos that show you how to apply tourniquets.

 

I am a volunteer EMT for an active 9-1-1 EMS agency. Any other questions I will do my best to answer them for you in regards to techniques and procedures. Most of the gear listed above that is repeated are good items to have in a first aid kit.

 

There is no proven empirical data proving someone with a GSW must be back boarded. Provided there is no immediate neurological damage. Boarding someone post GSW may actually make them worse for many reason. Delay in getting to trauma and positional breathing issues being the main issues. Surgeon's knives fix trauma... nothing else.

[emt1231 0]

Without getting into an EMS knowledge issue and giving out medical advise on and internet forum. If you do not need to move them don't, you don't know if they are shot in the torso what path that bullet took in there body providing it is not a through and through bullets can cause spinal damage. I wouldn't worry about it if it was in the arm or leg but still it is better left for the EMS crew to make these decisions. And a car accident victim could have a hemopneumothorax as well but you still are going to board them. I will stop here and say please educate yourselves and call 9-1-1.

[Tosser 61]

Without getting into an EMS knowledge issue and giving out medical advise on and internet forum. If you do not need to move them don't, you don't know if they are shot in the torso what path that bullet took in there body providing it is not a through and through bullets can cause spinal damage. I wouldn't worry about it if it was in the arm or leg but still it is better left for the EMS crew to make these decisions. And a car accident victim could have a hemopneumothorax as well but you still are going to board them. I will stop here and say please educate yourselves and call 9-1-1.

 

http://www.medicalsc...trauma_2009.pdf

 

I can continue with more if you like.

 

FYI this is how the military rolls... and they see a LOT more GSW then the civi side.

 

 

Moving or not moving is really irrelevant, unless there is NEW neurological deficit.

[JamesC 2]

Hey sorry about the TQ - just going with what I got from my Wilderness First Aid course this year. Tosser's words are spot on with what we trained (domain of hunting accident a few hours into the woods).

 

Just trying to help a guy out.

[rightisright 3]

Izzy bandages and Quikclot BANDAGES (not powder) should be in a range kit. You might also want to add some cellophane and 200 MPH tape for a sucking chest wound.

 

I am not a medical professional by any means... but these things were suggested to me by a good buddy who is an ER/Trauma MD. Learning how to use them goes w/o saying....

 

He's not a shooter, but did his residency at Cooper in Camden, so he saw his fair share of GSWs. When I asked him about the Quikclot powder, he said it makes a sticky mess and the wound starts to bleed again when they clean the powder off. The bandages contain the powder and make it much easier for the pro's to do their job the right way.

[Arbelest 29]

I can continue with more if you like.

 

 

Most definitely I am always willing to learn. Even with a suspected spinal injury will say a GSW to the back on the spine, and a through and through for discussion purposes, back boarding won't help since the trauma is a direct injury to the spinal column. I read that link and it is a very good case study. The possible spinal column injury is always drilled into EMT's as backboard and collar to CYA but this article shows that spinal injuries after a GSW won’t affect the brain negatively if I am reading that correctly. Also please correct me if my interpretation is wrong.

That article was a great read, thanks for sharing. Also I am assuming you are a paramedic?

[Tosser 61]

Most definitely I am always willing to learn. Even with a suspected spinal injury will say a GSW to the back on the spine, and a through and through for discussion purposes, back boarding won't help since the trauma is a direct injury to the spinal column. I read that link and it is a very good case study. The possible spinal column injury is always drilled into EMT's as backboard and collar to CYA but this article shows that spinal injuries after a GSW won’t affect the brain negatively if I am reading that correctly. Also please correct me if my interpretation is wrong.

That article was a great read, thanks for sharing. Also I am assuming you are a paramedic?

 

send me an IM on the board with your specific questions as to not pollute the original threads topic. they can be either on the job what to do type or SHTF centric.