Florida Deputy Threatens to Shoot Concealed Carry Licensee and Arrests Him for Lawfully carried Handgun

[Soju 153]

You kind of waive that right when you get the permit as following that law is a condition of he permit.

 

Bad argument (though not necessarily untrue). That would mean the law in unconstitutional, and therefore invalid.

 

I'm not saying it is (though you could certainly debate it), but if there is some sort of implied waiving of a right, that means on it's own it isn't lawful to begin with. Though that is moot, because requiring a permit to carry is a violation of the 2nd anyways (IMO). Considering that, it is no surprise that another right may also be violated.

 

Edit:

 

Reading my own post I see it is slightly confusing. So to put it simply...

 

 

If you have to give up your 5th Amendment right to exercise your 2nd Amendment right, either neither are really rights or the laws are unconstitutional to begin with.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Bonesinium

[Old Dog 19]

The guy should have stayed in the car and his gun was poorly concealed. However in Florida you are not required to show the police your ccw license or tell them you are armed unless asked. It is usually better not to tell them unless they ask you to leave the vehicle. It goes a lot smoother if you do not mention a gun and you are perfectly in your rights to not mention it. Once you say gun you will be handcuffed and treated like a criminal for all passerbys to see.

 

It is also not illegal to briefly and inadvertantly display your concealed weapon although no one has defined "briefly". The LEO was wrong about brandishing also as brandishing only applies when your gun in displayed in a reckless or threatening manner. Some LEO's are more frightened than others, especially the younger ones here but then again who can blame them. There were mistakes made on both sides with this one and that driver really needs to conceal his gun better. I buy my shirts one size large and get the tall size so that they hang much lower than a regular shirt. No way is my gun even going to be accidently exposed but then again some guys just need to carry full sized guns in undersized shirts. I also lost 40 lbs due the problem displayed by the driver when he bent over slightly. Big stomachs pull up your shirt real easy.

[Albanian 121]

The cop over reacted. Simple as that.

[KpdPipes 388]

Bad argument (though not necessarily untrue). That would mean the law in unconstitutional, and therefore invalid.

 

I'm not saying it is (though you could certainly debate it), but if there is some sort of implied waiving of a right, that means on it's own it isn't lawful to begin with. Though that is moot, because requiring a permit to carry is a violation of the 2nd anyways (IMO). Considering that, it is no surprise that another right may also be violated.

 

Edit:

 

Reading my own post I see it is slightly confusing. So to put it simply...

 

 

If you have to give up your 5th Amendment right to exercise your 2nd Amendment right, either neither are really rights or the laws are unconstitutional to begin with.

 

How exactly is a declaration requirement a forfeiture of your 5th amendment rights???? you aren't implicating yourself in any crime.

[Soju 153]

I didn't say it was. GlassFanta said it might, and TK421 implied that it didn't matter because that right is somehow waived. I was stating that if you believe that to be the case, it is a bad argument.

 

With that said, part of the 5th Amendment is to prevent forcing INNOCENT people of saying something that could be construed as, or is potentially incriminating.

[Combat Auto 174]

Correct Florida Does NOT require you to inform the officer you are armed. My Florida CWFL class was taught by a Sheriff's officer. His told the class he doesn't want to know. His feeling was if you are stopped for a traffic offense that's all it is, a traffic offense. Once you inform your armed the whole parameter of the stop than changes. Its no longer just about a traffic stop. Now its is your license legal. Has anything changed with you since it was issued? Lets now run the serial number of the weapon. The whole stop changes when a gun is brought into it. He went on to say if the officer asks you than inform or if he asks you to exit the auto than its best to inform. He felt if your asked to exit the car than the officer feels there is more the the picture than a traffic stop and he is going to do a detail investigation.

How about NJ? If I get pulled over for a traffic violation on way to range. My pistols are in the trunk with my docs...Amo is in trunk in seperate box...But he sees my steel targets and stands in the passangers compartment...So he asks like they often do "where you going"...I would say the range...What if he wants me to pop the trunk. Legally do I have to follow his instructions?

[TulsaJohn 1]

Never say your going to a gun range, you can just say " I am on my way to meet some buddy's of mine down in (insert town here). I am sure you will make buddies down at the range if you don't have any there already. You should just cover everything including stands and steel targets, but most times the cops won't put two and two together when they see that steel, and random metal stuff in your car.

[HuntingPaper 62]

How about NJ? If I get pulled over for a traffic violation on way to range. My pistols are in the trunk with my docs...Amo is in trunk in seperate box...But he sees my steel targets and stands in the passangers compartment...So he asks like they often do "where you going"...I would say the range...What if he wants me to pop the trunk. Legally do I have to follow his instructions?

If I get asked where I'm going I always answer with the name of the town the range is locatedand no more specifics.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Never say your going to a gun range, you can just say " I am on my way to meet some buddy's of mine down in (insert town here). I am sure you will make buddies down at the range if you don't have any there already. You should just cover everything including stands and steel targets, but most times the cops won't put two and two together when they see that steel, and random metal stuff in your car.

I will and then I may ask if you are looking to sell anything.

[ZED 54 1]

Was dangerous leaving that guy on his belly after he cuffed him. At least turn the guy on his side.

[TulsaJohn 1]

I will and then I may ask if you are looking to sell anything.

Ok I will make you the exception.

[Imaginos 0]

How about NJ? If I get pulled over for a traffic violation on way to range. My pistols are in the trunk with my docs...Amo is in trunk in seperate box...But he sees my steel targets and stands in the passangers compartment...So he asks like they often do "where you going"...I would say the range...What if he wants me to pop the trunk. Legally do I have to follow his instructions?

 

Unless he has a warrant then no, you don't even have to answer his question, but in the real world there is little advantage to being difficult. 

[Combat Auto 174]

Unless he has a warrant then no, you don't even have to answer his question, but in the real world there is little advantage to being difficult. 

Yep, agree avoid being difficult....The issue is though, once you open the trunk, it may be opening a can of worms also..Then instead of a traffic fine discussion, it becaomes a gun discussion. And many cops (as well as shooters) don't know all the gun laws (for example, that you may transport hollow points to/from range).

 

I think I would answer his questions politly; but kindly refuse to open the trunk.