How is this not infringing on R2KBA?

[Dan 177]

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but hopefully some folks who browse the forums that haven't bought a handgun in NJ will benefit...

 

Decide I want to buy 2 handguns... already have NJ FID of course... but for handguns you have to follow yet another NJ mandated "process".

• Fill out NJSP forms via downloading off their website (not bad)
  
• Obtain $18 money order for NJSP background check (OK why am I paying for this, and very annoying to go get a money order... means a bank trip... oh and money order fees)
  
• Show up at police dept on 1 of two allocated days and time slots to fill out pistol purchase permits (between 10-12 , 2-4pm. very annoying, means taking a half day off of work) Pay $2 cash for each
  
• Now wait
  
• and wait... month goes by
  
• and wait.. another month goes by
  
• Ahh after calling every other day for a week, the pistol permits are ready and will be mailed to me. 2.5 months total!
  
• Pistol has been sitting at the dealer for the past two months. I fill out and fax over the NICS check form.
  
• and wait... another 4 days goes by and I get an email that it is ready
  
• Show up at dealer to pick up 1st pistol. Oh and that will be another $15 for NICS check
  
• Yay , finally have pistol after 78 days! Oh and $35 in fees , plus aggrivation
  
• Now for the second pistol.....
  
• STOP, NJ says you can only buy "one handgun per month"
  
• so wait
  
• and wait
  
• 30 days goes by again, and I will be able to fill out the NICS form AGAIN, and pay yet another $15 AGAIN and I will be able to get my 2nd handgun
  
• So 108 days from time to filling out and submitting my forms to the police dept, I will finally have my 2 handguns that I set out to buy. Oh and $50 total in government fees!
  

To top it off, I have mandatory volunteered to register my handguns as the pistol permit form automatically forces registration... Despite that registration is not mandatory by law! This is essentially blackmail on a grand scale. "if you don't volunteer to register your handgun, we will not allow you to buy one". What is "voluntary" about this?

 

And no, I did not fill out the OGAM exemption as I did not fit any of the exemption reasons.

 

My point is that this system is designed for one thing only.... infringement of my individual rights by placing unreasonable procedures and excessive fees under color of law and safety. A free NICS check at time of purchase would accomplish ALL of the saftey and eligibility checks that this current system accomplishes without needing to go through the rat maze.

 

It is designed to discourage gun ownership, and to make it so aggravating and annoying that most people will just give up or not try. I can attest to this as I have two friends that would like to own guns, but are too intimidated, or do not have the time to deal with this process.

[mcbethr 42]

It is designed to discourage gun ownership, and to make it so aggravating and annoying that most people will just give up or not try. I can attest to this as I have two friends that would like to own guns, but are too intimidated, or do not have the time to deal with this process.

 

I think that's the whole point. This is one of the reasons why I think NJ's gun laws are fundamentally racist.

 

Don't forget that these laws were passed back in 1966 after the race riots in Newark. A white businessman can afford to take off half the day. A Hispanic bodega owner can't.

 

Hey, when politicians talk about taking "guns off our streets" do they mean Cherry Hill?

[P4Plenty 1]

Well said sir

[Kingsoverqueens 10]

And no, I did not fill out the OGAM exemption as I did not fit any of the exemption reasons.

Last year, when I was in the process of purchasing my first pistol, I made a passing comment of "They make you jump through hoops" to a friend. He crinkled up his nose in disgust and replied, "It should be hard." Argh.

 

They should change the name of the P2P to "permission to purchase" rather than permit to purchase.

 

I do take exception, however, this the comment that I quoted.

 

You fit all of the exemtion reasons, and if you disagree with me, please read the statue carefully. All you need is "any other legal reason" and provided you aren't or do not present the risk of a straw man purchase they should approve. I think the OGAM excemption process is something that, like your friend, we (collectively) are intemindated by, and therefor don't regularly pursue. It's not easy being a firearms owner in NJ.

[Dan 177]

Last year, when I was in the process of purchasing my first pistol, I made a passing comment of "They make you jump through hoops" to a friend. He crinkled up his nose in disgust and replied, "It should be hard." Argh.

 

They should change the name of the P2P to "permission to purchase" rather than permit to purchase.

 

I do take exception, however, this the comment that I quoted.

 

You fit all of the exemtion reasons, and if you disagree with me, please read the statue carefully. All you need is "any other legal reason" and provided you aren't or do not present the risk of a straw man purchase they should approve. I think the OGAM excemption process is something that, like your friend, we (collectively) are intemindated by, and therefor don't regularly pursue. It's not easy being a firearms owner in NJ.

 

I'll re-scan the OGAM paperwork again. If "any legal reason" is indeed all we need, then I will start filling that out every PPP round. The annoying part is having to need the serial numbers, so you have to purchase everything up front and leave at your dealer while you run through the shenanigans.

[bhunted 887]

Unless I missed it, you forgot fingerprints...

 

 

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[Vlad G 345]

You know .. we do have a choice. We could move. Basically we are complaining about a system we don't have to use if it bothers us that much. Not that it isn't a ridiculous system, but why is anyone still surprised at the idea that government infringes on all rights?

[EchoMirage 137]

Unless I missed it, you forgot fingerprints...

 

fingerprints are only when applying for the FID

[EchoMirage 137]

I'll re-scan the OGAM paperwork again. If "any legal reason" is indeed all we need, then I will start filling that out every PPP round. The annoying part is having to need the serial numbers, so you have to purchase everything up front and leave at your dealer while you run through the shenanigans.

 

from what others have said, there is almost no way they can deny you an exemption. all you do is say youre a collector, and thats it. they dont check it, as how could they. if you own more then one gun (hence the need for an exemption), youre 'collecting' them.

 

the only other caveat is the exemption permit takes as long as the original P2P. so fill out the exemption paperwork and submit it along with your P2P, and you should get them all back at the same time, several months later. then at least you can buy both guns on the same day.

[EchoMirage 137]

it is designed to discourage gun ownership, and to make it so aggravating and annoying that most people will just give up or not try. I can attest to this as I have two friends that would like to own guns, but are too intimidated, or do not have the time to deal with this process.

 

 

as mcbeth said, thats the point. EVERYTHING in this police state infringes on the RKBA. i had this exact conversation with a friend of mine recently. remember that the government is not made up of 'people'. its an entity, like a corporation. it is, in an of itself, a living organism. it sees the big picture, and looks far, far ahead of the single citizen. the permit process was set up in this way precisely to turn some new gun buyers away. the gov knew, that if it made enough hoops for the average prospective gun buyer to jump through, there could be many, many each year that would simply give up and NOT buy a gun. that, to the gov, is as big a victory as any new AWB.

[bhunted 887]

I don't know about your town but P2P can also require them and hey have around here.

 

 

fingerprints are only when applying for the FID

 

 

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[Dan 177]

You know .. we do have a choice. We could move. Basically we are complaining about a system we don't have to use if it bothers us that much. Not that it isn't a ridiculous system, but why is anyone still surprised at the idea that government infringes on all rights?

 

This is my home. I grew up here, and all my family is here. I'd rather stay and fight for my rights then be run out of my home by the civil rights abuses of this State.

 

fingerprints are only when applying for the FID

 

Old Bridge wants you re-fingerprinted for HG permits if you haven't applied for a HG permit within 2 years.

[mipafox 438]

NJ has no RKBA in the state constitution. US Supreme Court recently ruled it is "incorporated" against The States ("Selective Incorporation"), which is a power not granted to them by the US Constitution, but a power they granted to themselves. And, in doing so, they said RKBA can be infringed. Which means there is no Second Amendment. Again proving they are politicians and scheming douchebags, not arbiters of justice, and should be First Against the Wall with the rest of the lawyers in no preferential order.

 

So, be happy with whatever you get, or fight for something different. But don't count on the government to grant you any privileged under any principle of law.

[P4Plenty 1]

Some of us cannot move out of state with our jobs. I'd love to move over the bridge... Not allowed. Once I retire I am long gone

[bhunted 887]

Same here..... I stopped liking NJ long time ago.... Not the state itself mind you. The way it's ran, rules, taxes, etc.... That.

 

Some of us cannot move out of state with our jobs. I'd love to move over the bridge... Not allowed. Once I retire I am long gone

 

 

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[mipafox 438]

Same here.....  I stopped liking NJ long time ago.... Not the state itself mind you. The way it's ran, rules, taxes, etc.... That.

 

 

 

 

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Very true. I've always said the only problem with NJ is the taxes, the traffic, the laws, the people, and the government. Nothing 7 neutron bombs couldn't fix. It really is a beautiful state and I wish I could live there.

[EchoMirage 137]

I don't know about your town but P2P can also require them and hey have around here.

 

the only time ive ever been printed in my town was for FIDs, nothing else

[djg0770 481]

Old Bridge wants you re-fingerprinted for HG permits if you haven't applied for a HG permit within 2 years.

 

Well there's an easy solution to THAT!

[bhunted 887]

That's the way it ought to be....You're lucky then. If you check he compliancy thread and a couple others, you'll see a lot of people mentioning it. It sux! Like I've said before, Dick Tracy taught us all as kids that your fingerprints never change. And I've been printed enough in my life if they don't know me by now, they never will. Ink and computer... I'm in both systems.

 

 

the only time ive ever been printed in my town was for FIDs, nothing else

 

 

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[gunguy1960 2]

Welcome to the party, pal!

[Kaiser7 33]

Have you joined the NJ Second Amendment Society?

 

http://www.nj2as.com/

 

We're trying to do all we can to fix the situation here. Hopefully, if we keep pushing for what is right, we will make a change.

[Vlad G 345]

Some of us cannot move out of state with our jobs. I'd love to move over the bridge... Not allowed. Once I retire I am long gone

 

Unless your job is with the military where you committed for a 4 year term, your job shouldn't be a prison you can not escape. We choose to stay in our jobs and be trapped in NJ, I know, I do it too.