No FID needed to handle gun at gun store!

[Jerseyfirefighter 0]

While i respect RTSP1's efforts, places like Dicks won't even unlock the rack without your id card and DL on the counter. Wether it's law or not, i do not know, but thats one place they enfore it.

 

Other shops I have been in, they don't care one way or another. I had a guy at Cheyenne mtn outfitters one time tell me after asking to see the glock 27 in the glass case "you don't smell like booze, and you don't look like your coked out, here ya go", and handed me the pistol.

 

Good for RTSP for doing a little research and doing what he is told is right.

[ryan_j 0]

Trying buying handgun ammo without one.

 

 

 

I can buy it in Pennsylvania which is a 10 minute drive away. 

[ryan_j 0]

Probably has something to do with the fact that your FPID number is on the P2P when it is issued 

 

Your FID number is your SBI number. You'd have one if you didn't have a FID. You'd also have one if you went to prison.

[ryan_j 0]

You realize that is not the norm, nor reality? So, who cares.

 

 

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The norm is not the point.

 

Yes, it's a good idea to have a FID to buy a handgun.

Yes, you need it to buy ammo if you buy it from a dealer in NJ.

Yes, it's good that dealers require people to have one to handle a gun.

 

But you can do all of these things without a FID.

 

Also if you have a carry permit you can buy ammo without a FID. 

[RTSP1 67]

Wow, I am glad that this topic, started by Howard, has gained such a following. It is all important to note that every FFL in the state has to adhere to the same standards and that their individual customers, ultimately determine what is right and just for the shops continued success. I believe that our customers have our best interest at heart and want us to succeed, hence we try to go the extra mile and not be the FFL of old! Just sayen.

[Contrvlr 17]

Your FID number is your SBI number. You'd have one if you didn't have a FID. You'd also have one if you went to prison.

Only way to get an SBI number is to apply for an FPID or commit a crime

[ryan_j 0]

Only way to get an SBI number is to apply for an FPID or commit a crime

Yeah ok sorry that came out wrong.

 

You CAN have one if you don't have a FID. It's not that you WILL have one, bit you can have one without having a FID.

 

In addition to the two cases you mentioned I also believe that LEOs have SBI numbers as well.

 

 

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[halbautomatisch 60]

Trying buying handgun ammo without one.

 

 

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Typos courtesy Apple...

You can buy handgun ammo in NJ with a carry license - any carry license, does not have to be a NJ carry license (yeah, another example where the law and practice diverge).

[halbautomatisch 60]

I will agree and concede the point.....I do wish RTSP all success and will state I'm on record as having  defended you several times on this very forum in the past, so mine is not a vendetta but simply an attempt to show how asinine our laws are and how conditioned to following the herd mentality we've become.

You should really stop thinking that the dealers are to blame for things like this, the NJSP FIU is like a lot of other government bureaucracies that regulate things. If you call them 10 times to ask them the same exact question on a matter that has not been total clearly established, you will get 10 different answers, some of which will directly contradict what you were told earlier. Since the FIU has the ability to get a SFL revoked for what they believe to be violations, a dealer must be very cautious in what they do. Even if the NJSP is wrong about something, if a dealer has to go to court to fight a suspension it will cost them a lot of money and the expense could put them out of business just fighting it.

 

I'll give you another analogy, If you put an addition on your home, and you studied all the building code rules. When the building code inspector comes to inspect your work and says "I want to see this done this way" and refuses to pass your work until you do it the way he wants it even though you know the way you did it is code, what do you do? If you fight him, he'll probably drag the project out with every little detail and you won't get your CO for months. Or, do you make the small changes he wants (even though you know your way was code) and not have any further issues with the inspector for the remainder of your project? Sometimes it's better to accept a little BS than deal with a headache or nightmare later. In business this becomes a much simpler judgement call.

[9X19 125]

Probably has something to do with the fact that your FPID number is on the P2P when it is issued

 

Does not really matter. There is not a single gun store in NJ that would risk their FFL by selling a handgun without comparing the prospective buyer's P2P info with that of their FID card to make sure all the info especially their SBI number matches.

[9X19 125]

[quote name="Jerseyfirefighter" post="779008" timestamp="1379120252"
had a guy at Cheyenne mtn outfitters one time tell me after asking to see the glock 27 in the glass case "you don't smell like booze, and you don't look like your coked out, here ya go", and handed me the pistol.


 

Wow, what a stupid thing for a salesman to say. Even as a joke, at the very least it shows a lack of professonalism. Not a guy I would really feel confident to give me sound advise on a gun purchase.

[PK90 3,570]

Does not really matter. There is not a single gun store in NJ that would risk their FFL by selling a handgun without comparing the prospective buyer's P2P info with that of their FID card to make sure all the info especially their SBI number matches.

 

I never asked to see an FPID when someone was buying a pistol. The card is never needed.

[68chris 20]

Does not really matter. There is not a single gun store in NJ that would risk their FFL by selling a handgun without comparing the prospective buyer's P2P info with that of their FID card to make sure all the info especially their SBI number matches.

You do not need to ever own an FID card to purchase a handgun in NJ.

You just need a valid P2P. State of NJ doesn't even require any ID if the seller knows the buyer, although Uncle Sam requires a Drivers license for the 4473 that dealers need to keep on file.

What risks are you referring to?

[9X19 125]

How do you know if their SBI nummber is correct when calling NIcs? What about a handwritten permit? I have never seen an FFL in NJ that would sell a handgun without having both an FID card and their P2P.

[PK90 3,570]

NICS verifies the info.

[9X19 125]

You do not need to ever own an FID card to purchase a handgun in NJ.

You just need a valid P2P. State of NJ doesn't even require any ID if the seller knows the buyer, although Uncle Sam requires a Drivers license for the 4473 that dealers need to keep on file.

What risks are you referring to?

Well here's a question. Will your local PD even issue you a permit if you have never applied for an FID card?

Does not make sense that someone would have a permit and not have an FID card. After all you will never be able to buy any handgun ammo in NJ without one.

[PK90 3,570]

Well here's a question. Will your local PD even issue you a permit if you have never applied for an FID card? YES

Does not make sense that someone would have a permit and not have an FID card. It is still not needed to buy a handgun. After all you will never be able to buy any handgun ammo in NJ without one. One may purchase ammo with a permit to purchase.  No FPID needed.

[9X19 125]

 

Well here's a question. Will your local PD even issue you a permit if you have never applied for an FID card? YES

Does not make sense that someone would have a permit and not have an FID card. It is still not needed to buy a handgun. After all you will never be able to buy any handgun ammo in NJ without one. One may purchase ammo with a permit to purchase.  No FPID needed.

 

 

 

Well as someone stated it would have to be a lot of ammo. You can't go in with a copy of a used permit and buy ammo as far as I know. You are very lucky that you escaped to Arizona.

 

[68chris 20]

Actually, a copy of the P2P is just fine. 

 

 

 

ftp://www.njleg.state.nj.us/20062007/PL07/318_.PDF

 

 

CHAPTER 318 AN ACT concerning firearms and supplementing chapter 58 of Title 2C of the New Jersey

Statutes.

BE IT ENACTED by the Senate and General Assembly of the State of New Jersey:

C.2C:58-3.3 “Handgun ammunition” defined; sale, purchase, etc., regulated; violation, fourth degree crime.

1. a. As used in this act, “handgun ammunition” means ammunition specifically designed to be used only in a handgun. “Handgun ammunition” shall not include blank ammunition, air gun pellets, flare gun ammunition, nail gun ammunition, paint ball ammunition, or any non-fixed ammunition.

b. No person shall sell, give, transfer, assign or otherwise dispose of, or receive, purchase, or otherwise acquire handgun ammunition unless the purchaser, assignee, donee, receiver or holder is licensed as a manufacturer, wholesaler, or dealer under this chapter or is the holder of and possesses a valid firearms purchaser identification card, a valid copy of a permit to purchase a handgun, or a valid permit to carry a handgun and first exhibits such card or permit to the seller, donor, transferor or assignor.

c. No person shall sell, give, transfer, assign or otherwise dispose of handgun ammunition to a person who is under 21 years of age.

d. The provisions of this section shall not apply to a collector of firearms or ammunition as curios or relics who purchases, receives, acquires, possesses, or transfers handgun ammunition which is recognized as being historical in nature or of historical significance.

e. A person who violates this section shall be guilty of a crime of the fourth degree, except that nothing contained herein shall be construed to prohibit the sale, transfer, assignment or disposition of handgun ammunition to or the purchase, receipt or acceptance of ammunition by a law enforcement agency or law enforcement official for law enforcement purposes.

f. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the transfer of ammunition for use in a lawfully transferred firearm in accordance with the provisions of section 1 of P.L.1992, c.74 (C.2C:58-3.1), section 1 of P.L.1997, c.375 (C.2C:58-3.2) or section 14 of P.L.1979, c.179 (C.2C:58-6.1).

g. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the sale of a de minimis amount of handgun ammunition at a firearms range operated by a licensed dealer; a law enforcement agency; a legally recognized military organization; or a rifle or pistol club which has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent for immediate use at that range.

2. This act shall take effect on the first day of the third month following enactment. Approved January 13, 2008.

[PK90 3,570]

The question then becomes, what is a "valid" permit.  Is an executed permit still valid? Does the permit need not to have expired?

 

Riddle me this.  If one purchases a handgun, completes the paperwork, and starts toward the door, he realizes that he needs ammo. So he goes to purchase some ammo and he no longer has an unused permit. Can he then buy the ammo?

[68chris 20]

Ya better buy a million rounds then for that one shot deal. Wouldn't want ya to run out.

 

 

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Typos courtesy Apple...

 

Hmmmmm.... Really?

[68chris 20]

The question then becomes, what is a "valid" permit.  Is an executed permit still valid? Does the permit need not to have expired?

 

Riddle me this.  If one purchases a handgun, completes the paperwork, and starts toward the door, he realizes that he needs ammo. So he goes to purchase some ammo and he no longer has an unused permit. Can he then buy the ammo?

 

It doesn't read "valid permit", it reads "valid copy".

I interpret that as my pink.

[PK90 3,570]

Hmmm. I agree.

[bhunted 887]

Other than the fact that this thread has kind of went off topic, my statements to the latter refer to the fact that in all the years and people I know, everyone pretty much either got their FID first or bundled with a P2P. It makes no sense not to.

 

But none of this pertains to the OP's post.

Needing an FID to fondle weapons. If you want to nit pick what you are capable of doing else wise, have at it. It's still not the norm.

 

 

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[gunguy1960 2]

Interesting conversations, I always assumed showing card was a law but now Ive learned something new. Of course its a mutual respect thing, they can make any rule in their shop before they show me a gun, and of course I can always take my buisness else where.

[Jerseyfirefighter 0]

Wow, what a stupid thing for a salesman to say. Even as a joke, at the very least it shows a lack of professonalism. Not a guy I would really feel confident to give me sound advise on a gun purchase.

 

Yea, but it was during the jamboree, they had a killer deal on the one i wanted. I looked past that comment

[Newtonian 453]

I've always been asked for my FID card. I assumed it was because the stores didn't want to waste time on someone who was ineligible to purchase. That would go hand in hand with the general unfriendliness at many of the shops I've visited.

 

When you come down to it asking for the card is bad business practice. Someone may have left their card at home, or is thinking of getting a card, or is totally new to guns. Why turn them off?

 

Could you imagine any other retail outlet asking for credentials before showing you a product?

 

I applaud RTSP for dropping this requirement. As busy as they are they have always been friendly and accommodating to me.

[carguy3j 0]

Willing ti bet that now it has come to their attention a FID requirement will be written into the administrative code at the next revision.

 

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On that note, why is anyone even asking the NJSP FIU? Why not just request an opinion letter straight from the attorney general? That would then dictate what the NJSP HAVE to do. ie, doesn't matter if the NJSP THINK you do need the FPID. If the AG says you don't, the NJSP are bound by that. Right?

 

I will agree and concede the point.....I do wish RTSP all success and will state I'm on record as having  defended you several times on this very forum in the past, so mine is not a vendetta but simply an attempt to show how asinine our laws are and how conditioned to following the herd mentality we've become.

Not just in the matter being discussed here, but in life in general. This is a huge problem. No one is willing to stand up, for fear of being noticed and getting knocked down by "the man" It is crippling society and mankind's further progress. Think of all the great inventions; things we all absolutely depend on today, in one form or another. Now, imagine trying to invent those things today. You absolutely could not do so; certainly not in virtually all of this country.

Try flying an experimental aircraft on a public beach (or a private one for that matter). Report back after the FAA has finished reaming you a new butt hole.

Try developing a new form of electricity, or innovating some new means of refining fossil fuels. You'll be dead and buried before you finish filling out the paperwork for a permit to apply for permission to begin the process of seeking approval of an environmental survey, which will be used to approve or deny your application to request authorization to seek an evaluation to determine the feasibility of the possibility of determining the acceptability of the color of the asphalt in your proposed driveway, assuming your even allowed to have one, as the paving may kill a rare ant species. That''s about ten more forms right there.

Where is the next John Browning, Samuel Colt, or the Smith and Wesson guys? Probably in federal prison, for having the audacity to explore an idea in their basement. 

We are regulating and legislating ourselves to death. Its insane. The only way it will stop, is when people start standing up for themselves, and in turn everyone else. Enough of the "go-along-to-get-along" crap.

[carguy3j 0]

...........

I'll give you another analogy, If you put an addition on your home, and you studied all the building code rules. When the building code inspector comes to inspect your work and says "I want to see this done this way" and refuses to pass your work until you do it the way he wants it even though you know the way you did it is code, what do you do? If you fight him, he'll probably drag the project out with every little detail and you won't get your CO for months. Or, do you make the small changes he wants (even though you know your way was code) and not have any further issues with the inspector for the remainder of your project? Sometimes it's better to accept a little BS than deal with a headache or nightmare later. In business this becomes a much simpler judgement call.

^^^^This is what is wrong with the world. People caving in like this. First of all, "codes", as a mandatory "requirement" are a bunch of crap.

However, that is a different argument. Assuming that you agree with "codes", and there enforcement (which I don't- but not important here), then if you are truly certain that you build it to code, then you stick to your guns. The inspector has no right to make it up as he sees fit. If he "harasses" you on other things because of it, you report him/fight him on that too. 

 

When you just "give-in", or "go-along-to-get-along", you not only surrender your own rights, but you are then an accomplice in that inspector's later trampling of other's rights. When you acquiesce, or give a bully what they want, they keep coming back for more, and it encourages them to do it to others as well. When you stand up to a bully, even if it means taking a punch, you can stop that bully in their tracks. Too many people are, selfishly, only concerned with the immediate consequences for them,without considering the bigger picture or just the plain "right and wrongness" of things. This is why gun rights are under attack. Too many people are not personally concerned with owning a gun, so they just don't care. It doesn't effect them,or so they think.

 

People who say "you can't fight city hall" should be ashamed of themselves. It is disrespectful of themselves, their fellow citizens, and everything this country is SUPPOSED to be.

[Newtonian 453]

People who say "you can't fight city hall" should be ashamed of themselves. It is disrespectful of themselves, their fellow citizens, and everything this country is SUPPOSED to be.

 

True, true, true. But what do you do? Live at your brother-in-law's for six months (until you finally cave)?? Because that's what will happen. Nobody will come to your aid. Except for your relatives nobody will give a shit. The papers, if they cover the situation, will portray you as a semi-nut. If you can find a lawyer to fight it you'll be broke before it's all over, even if you win. And whether you do or not they will not have learned anything, or been chastised in any way. They'll do the same thing to the next person.

 

(#$(@*&@#$(*& @#$(*&@#$@)@(#*%)()

 

I once had a code officer bust the balls of someone fixing a water main on my property because the permit was still in process (don't ask me why) when the work began. Meanwhile, that "little bit of Appalachia" across the street from me has had dozens of ongoing, serious code violations, violations of certificates of occupancy, and is about to collapse onto several houses in the ravine below it. 

 

I repeat: (#$(@*&@#$(*& @#$(*&@#$@)@(#*%)()