Active shooter dc navy base

[Contrvlr 17]

Latest from Fox; 12 dead, 1 shooter with multiple weapons; shotgun, handgun, AR15, still looking for other possible shooter's

The WH talking head is spouting off about " common sense " measures to prevent another mass shooting

[mcbethr 42]

On another note, I think its crazy that the vast majority of soldiers on base are disarmed. They should at least be able to carry a sidearm, with numerous mini-armories staffed 24/7, spread throughout the base, ready to hand out heavier weapons in an emergency. I mean, going back to an earlier thread, where we discussed the possibility of a foreign invasion, what if this was a larger coordinated "attack"? They would be sitting ducks. How can a military base not be prepared to defend itself at all times?

 

You have to understand that it just isn't like this.  Soldiers aren't training 24/7 rappelling out of helicopters, climbing up ropes and doing Kung Fu.  We are usually sleeping off a hangover, playing xBox and trying to avoid getting pulled for a detail to move the trucks.  

 

I can only imagine the crazyness that mini-armories around the base would bring.  Another additional duty position.  Another reason for an E6 to have to come in on a 3 day weekend.  Another 2nd Lieutenant's career ruined because he lost one single round.  It's just... seriously ... not a good idea.

[jrfly3006 42]

You have to understand that it just isn't like this.  Soldiers aren't training 24/7 rappelling out of helicopters, climbing up ropes and doing Kung Fu.  We are usually sleeping off a hangover, playing xBox and trying to avoid getting pulled for a detail to move the trucks.  

 

I can only imagine the crazyness that mini-armories around the base would bring.  Another additional duty position.  Another reason for an E6 to have to come in on a 3 day weekend.  Another 2nd Lieutenant's career ruined because he lost one single round.  It's just... seriously ... not a good idea.

+1

[Vini 0]

Big part of Navy personnel are pure paper pushers and technicians. A lot of them don't even have firearms training. It's just a job where people are forced to wear uniform. 

 

However I don't see a good reason why officers are not armed with sidearms. 

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Big part of Navy personnel are pure paper pushers and technicians. A lot of them don't even have firearms training. It's just a job where people are forced to wear uniform.

 

However I don't see a good reason why officers are not armed with sidearms.

Marines are all trained. Marines are in the dept of navy.

 

 

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[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Latest from Fox; 12 dead, 1 shooter with multiple weapons; shotgun, handgun, AR15, still looking for other possible shooter's

The WH talking head is spouting off about " common sense " measures to prevent another mass shooting

 

I'm sure the antis are already getting all excited about launching another attack on the Second Amendment.  It should be clear to them by now:  You want to prevent mass shootings?  Get rid of Gun Free Zones.  Seems like all of them happen there.

 

First things first though, my sympathy to the families of those killed and wounded.

[bravozulu14 0]

Where does it say that when you become a member of the US Navy your 2nd Amendment right is revoked?  Military personnel are legal, law abiding citizens of the United States, carrying an arm is a Constitutional right.   Not to mention most of the people working there were civilians, also protected under the Bill of Rights.

[Contrvlr 17]

First things first though, my sympathy to the families of those killed and wounded.

Of course

 

It just pisses me off that before it's even been brought to a conclusion they start yapping " common sense " , we know that what they propose makes no sense and only serves to punish law abiding citizens 

[Vini 0]

Marines are all trained. Marines are in the dept of navy.

 

Yes, Marines are Navy's infantry and they are the only shooters (plus few SOCOM units). 

Marines are about 30% of Navy if I'm not mistaken. And they don't sit at ship yards. 

 

 

Where does it say that when you become a member of the US Navy your 2nd Amendment right is revoked?  Military personnel are legal, law abiding citizens of the United States, carrying an arm is a Constitutional right.   Not to mention most of the people working there were civilians, also protected under the Bill of Rights.

As far as I know Bill of Rights (together with rest of the civilian laws) doesn't apply to military personnel. 

Once you join, you don't have any rights. 

[carguy3j 0]

You have to understand that it just isn't like this.  Soldiers aren't training 24/7 rappelling out of helicopters, climbing up ropes and doing Kung Fu.  We are usually sleeping off a hangover, playing xBox and trying to avoid getting pulled for a detail to move the trucks.  

 

I can only imagine the crazyness that mini-armories around the base would bring.  Another additional duty position.  Another reason for an E6 to have to come in on a 3 day weekend.  Another 2nd Lieutenant's career ruined because he lost one single round.  It's just... seriously ... not a good idea.

Hmmm. Admittedly, I am not familiar with the day-to-day life of a soldier. However, if it is as you say, then maybe that is a problem in and of itself. If soldiers are "usually sleeping off a hangover, playing xBox and trying to avoid getting pulled for a detail to move the trucks. ", then maybe we should change the structure of how the military is staffed. I see no reason for the taxpayers to feed, house, clothe, and pay for soldiers to be routinely sitting around. Please don't take it the wrong way. I'm not belittling or devaluing your service. I'm just suggesting that maybe we don't need such a large "standing" force then, if they can't be kept continuously occupied with activities of military value. Perhaps we should shrink the active force, and increase, and revamp the reserves. Come in for your training, on the clock, the go home and live your life, on your dime, as a civilian. When you are needed, you'll be called in, and put back on the clock. This would allow soldiers to have a more normal life, and with all the money "we" would save, we can spend more on training, and increase the pay for actual combat service. 

 

Perhaps, in order to keep the bases staffed, a "flex-time" schedule could be implemented. 1 week on duty. 3 weeks of being back to a normal civilian life, or something to that effect. This could give a larger percentage of the population an opportunity to be in the military (which would have benefits of its own), while keeping the costs reasonable.

 

In regards to the other aspects, while I can understand not wanting to have everybody wandering around base with .50cals and such, I see no reason why every soldier shouldn't be allowed to carry a pistol, provided they have qualified to do so. There should also be an on-base counter-terrorism team on stand-by. As I said, I just find it disturbing that US military bases have such a glaring vulnerability. We, the general public, tend to think of such facilities as impenetrable fortresses. Clearly they are not. The only "good" thing about it, is it does appear to increase the likelihood of success of a civilian rebel force being able to take control of a military installation, in the event of an armed revolution.

 

As for the min-armories, I suppose you have a point, as to the logistics. But, there are other options. Rather then manned armories, perhaps a number of locked "caches", in locations known to select personnel. In the event of an emergency, these individuals can gather others, bring them to these "rally points", and access and disperse the weapons as needed. These caches can be locked with bio-metric and electronic key pad locks, with access recorded and electronically transmitted to base command. Each "authorized" individual has their own access codes, and if you do access it, you better have a damn good reason. Rather then full-time staffing, the locations can be checked/inventoried periodically, say once a week. They would be checked with at least 2 people present, with both individuals, and team parings rotated constantly, to prevent any "funny business". Just a thought.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I can't imagine Washington, D.C. Of all places doesn't have marines ready to go at all times

[RubberBullets 65]

no way, that has to be a mistake because most school follow what is in Texas books due to the size of that market. As Texas goes, so goes the education in this country. No way that is legit in a school book.....not questioning you, just that pic

Ok... if you say so

 

http://www.dailypaul.com/299365/high-school-ap-history-book-rewrites-the-2nd-amendment

 

 

 

Sent from my SCH-I545

 

 

[Shawnmoore81 623]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/16/active-shooter-at-washington-navy-yard/

 

 

[Shawnmoore81 623]

http://m.theepochtimes.com/n3/289436-aaron-alexis-34-of-texas-ided-as-suspect-in-washington-navy-yard-shooting/

 

Shooter id

[bravozulu14 0]

 

 

As far as I know Bill of Rights (together with rest of the civilian laws) doesn't apply to military personnel. 

Once you join, you don't have any rights. 

 

As far as I know, that is incorrect.  You do not lose your Constitutional rights, the Military has the right under the Constitution to more finely detail and lay out those same rights as it's derived from the rights protected in the Constitution.

[High Exposure 5,670]

I can't imagine Washington, D.C. Of all places doesn't have marines ready to go at all times

First of all it is Marines and Navy.

 

Second, the Marines in DC with the equipment or training to handle this already have jobs to do. They can't leave their post to handle something else without being relieved. That takes time.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

 

Dug this mugshot up. We will see if its him

 

http://www.bustedmugshots.com/texas/fort-worth/aaron-alexis/45611151

[robot_hell 72]

Comcast is reporting "He is believed to have a criminal record [in Texas] and to be a holder of a concealed carry weapon permit"

 

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20130916/US--Shooting-Military.Building/

[bravozulu14 0]

do misdemeanors count as a criminal record?  Because felonies make a CCW null and void so something doesn't add up here.

[mcbethr 42]

 I see no reason for the taxpayers to feed, house, clothe, and pay for soldiers to be routinely sitting around. Please don't take it the wrong way.

 

Well, you kind of have to understand how the military, or at least the Army works.  My only experience has been in the Infantry, although I'm familiar with some of the other branches in the Army and what they do.

 

For most people in the military, their job is basically... a job.  We have cooks, clerks, TV producers, mechanics and so on.  If you are in a support position, or are some kind of paper pusher, your job is basically no different than any kind of desk job. You go into work, get coffee, do your paperwork and leave at 1700.  You may have to pull some kind of rotational extra duty such as post support or Charge of Quarters.  But for most support people, going into work is a job.  If you are a cook, you are cooking.  If you are a mechanic, you are fixing vehicles or aircraft 9 to 5, unless some kind of crazy training cycle or deployment is coming and you are are working 18 hour days to get every vehicle running.

 

Combat arms is different.  I can only speak for the infantry, but for the most part, there are a limited number of training facilities on post.  Also keep in mind that the officers and senior NCOs are usually planning the next training event.  So think of it like a sine wave.  You plan, gather resources, train, recover.  This may go in a 4 to six week cycle.  Also keep in mind, some of that time might be on "post support."  This is how lawns get mowed, snow gets shoveled and fences get painted on an Army Instillation - soldiers who are in their recovery phase do it.

 

So in the planning phase you have the Officers and senior NCOs meeting in the orderly room figuring out the commander's intent for the next training event.  Meanwhile the men ... quite frankly aren't doing much.  Good junior NCOs will conduct some training classes or go over drills and such, but they are not going out to the field to train by themselves.  So what really happens is that the NCOs will conduct some half-hearted and half-assed training classes until 12:00, everybody will break for lunch until 1330, and when the men are back, they will hang out in their rooms and play xBox until 1700 which is usually the end of the duty day.

 

As the training event gets closer, the men will start doing details such as pulling all of the crap that they need out of the supply room and checking it for serviceability.  But again, this is done during the duty day and ends at 1700.  When you have the training event, which might be anything from a battalion-level field exercise to a week spent on the ranges, you work your butts off.  But when it's over, you clean your equipment and start the cycle again.

 

All of this, with the exception of the training events, is usually washed down with a prodigious amount of alcohol.  It's just the mentality of the infantry.  Go out, get drunk, try to score, get in fights, repeat.  As strange as this sounds, it's necessary for unit bonding.  Even the xBox games, with soldiers having Call of Duty and Madden tournaments are necessary for bonding.

 

I just have a hard time imagining soldiers walking around, pulling crap out of the supply room, sweeping off tents and doing vehicle maintenance while armed.  

 

Maybe a few NCOs can be armed with sidearms at all times, and that would be a duty position that would rotate through the company, but it's very hard to imagine and I've been in the military for 19 years.  

[bravozulu14 0]

 

I just have a hard time imagining soldiers walking around, pulling crap out of the supply room, sweeping off tents and doing vehicle maintenance while armed.  

 

 

No one is saying carry a full combat load, but Americans all across the nation (except NY, NJ, IL, DC, CA, MA) do all those things, every single day while armed. 

[Shawnmoore81 623]

They should atleast have the option

[leahcim 680]

No one is saying carry a full combat load, but Americans all across the nation (except NY, NJ, IL, DC, CA, MA) do all those things, every single day while armed. 

[leahcim 680]

The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.  Gun Free Zones infringe on that right.

Do you ever fly commercially?

[TulsaJohn 1]

Aaron Alexis born in Queens, New York.......

[RUTGERS95 890]

I am pretty sure that any officer can carry a sidearm (M9) at their own discretion

the problem with this, in this political and dem controlled environment, is that even the slightest screw up and the guy is toast.  It's not worth the risk.  Someone mentioned a missing round earlier and that is a very real and very serious breach.  Now just imagine if the guy forgot his gun, misplaced a mag or something else.

[RUTGERS95 890]

how is this guy getting weapons on the base?

[kman 56]

Funny how some of those who support the right to bear arms will rush to defend rules forbidding members of the armed forces from bearing arms. If a soldier can't be trusted with a beretta then he or she has no business being in the armed forces in the first place. Like it or not war is hell. And the US has been at war for 12 years now. While people like to think that our wars are limited and surgical, the people we are fighting don't see it that way. It is ridiculous that one person with a gun can cause so much mayhem when surrounded by soldiers and sailors in a military facility of all places. We don't teach all of our soldiers and sailors and airmen to shoot? That is ridiculous! Should be the first thing taught!

 

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[mcbethr 42]

I am pretty sure that any officer can carry a sidearm (M9) at their own discretion

 

You made me think of how funny this would be... I can just imagine a whole gaggle of 2nd Lieutenants walking around with sidearms.

 

Remember how Andy Griffith only let Barney Fife have one cartridge for his revolver?  I can just imagine all of the Platoon Sergeants of the world taking the magazines from their lieutenants: "Uh, sir.  Maybe you better let me hold onto this."

[leahcim 680]

the problem with this, in this political and dem controlled environment, is that even the slightest screw up and the guy is toast.  It's not worth the risk.  Someone mentioned a missing round earlier and that is a very real and very serious breach.  Now just imagine if the guy forgot his gun, misplaced a mag or something else.