Kimber Team Match II - 9mm case ejection issue

[steely 0]

I just read the thread about 9mm 1911 choices, noting Tony357's post about his Kimber Team 2.  I am fairly new to shooting semi auto pistol. 

 

I recently picked up the Kimber listed above (new) and have about 250 rounds through it.  I notice that the casings dribble out of the gun, basically falling at my feet, or occasionally one hits me in the head.  I am using Federal and Remington 115gr ball ammo.  For what its worth, I am comparing this gun to my Kimber TLE II in .45, which ejects the casings 10 or so feet behind me.

 

Is this an extractor problem?  I did the test of putting a round in the extractor and shaking it with the slide off the gun.  It stays put with even a hard shake.

 

Do I need to put more rounds through the gun before I tweak anything?  

 

Not sure If it matters, but the slide does not always lock back after the last round is fired.  This only happened twice in the 27 or so times I have put a full mag in and shot it.  All with the 1 factory mag I have been using.  I just ordered 3 Tripp Cobra mags so that problem will hopefully get resolved using them. 

 

Lastly, I keep the gun clean and lube the rails with REM oil prior to shooting.  Any thoughts on these issues are appreciated!

 

 

[FLHX 1]

I have gone through some many mags for my STI Trojan, I have settled on two that seem to work for me. The Dawson and Wilson mags seem to be great in my pistol. I know some people who cannot get a Dawson to work for them at all. I have a suggestion- order 1 mag or a few types and then test to see what works.

 

I ended up with 19 1911 9mm mags. If you want I have some for a pretty good price (not sure what brands)!! If you have problems with the Tripps we can work something out so you can test what I have to see what works for you. Does the pistol have a magwell on it?

[steely 0]

Thanks for the advice and the offer.  Will see how the Tripps work and contact you if they don't.

 

Yes, it has a magwell. 

[Steve_G 51]

Not locking back, and weak ejection?

 

Try a lighter recoil spring. Maybe an 11lb spring. I run a 9lb on my Smith but, that is with my reloads for steel.

[steely 0]

Thanks for the thought on this, Freejersey.  It reminded me that the recoil spring does not slide on the guide rod easily.  It appears to be a tight fit.  I don't see any imperfections on the rod (it is smooth).  The gun came with a 12lb spring, so if it doesn't loosen up in the next couple of hundred rounds I will replace the spring and see if it makes a difference.  Perhaps a call to Kimber will help get me a replacement, so I will try that as well.

 

Greatly appreciate the help from the responders!

[Maksim 1,504]

Is this a brand new gun?

[steely 0]

Yes sir.  Only 250 rounds through the pipe.  My Kimber .45 was flawless out of the box, bought that new a few months ago, which is why I am looking for ideas.

 

I just got off the phone with Kimber customer service.  The person I spoke with suggested I put another couple hundred rounds through the gun and see if things change.  He also said a heavier grain round (I am only using 115gr) might make a difference.  I replied that the gun should shoot all and not just some flavors of ammo.  He also pulled a gun from stock and said the recoil spring was snug on that gun as well, especially at the base of the spring, and that it shouldn't make a difference with regard to the weak ejection I am experiencing.  The slide goes into battery without problem.  Thanks!

[2Alpha 6]

I use a 7lbs spring in my 9mm 1911.  12lbs is much to heavy

[tony357 386]

I still run the 12lb spring in my team 2...  the wilson mags need to be cut down to use them or the ramp of your barrel will hit the front of the mag. you are going to want to check that on the trip cobra mags i never used them so i cannot tell you how they will work with your kimber..

 

I would check the extractor tension with a gauge. The shake test did not work for me..

 

also had an issue with the slide not locking back and it was something with my slide stop i do not remember it was not a mag issue.. for some reason i think i had to debur something on the slide stop..And it did not show up right away i think it was around 800rnds..

[steely 0]

Thanks for chiming in, Tony.  Your experience with the same gun is very helpful.  When you say the shake test didn't work for you, what happened in your case that it didn't work.  Also, what type of gauge (trigger pull??), and what kind of numbers should I be looking for?

 

I got the Tripp mags in the mail today, so I will know more about how they work with this gun when I get a chance to shoot it next week.  I will report back on performance with Tripp versus the factory mag that came with the gun.  I hope I don't have to start filing parts down to get the slide stop to work better.  At that point I might have to send it back for repair.  I will be getting a Sig P226 in a few weeks so I will at least have a 9mm to shoot if I bite the bullet and send it back.  Big decision there, I know.

 

I also called the folks at Bob's Little Sport Shop where I bought the Kimber.  They were very nice, but said they hadn't seen this problem before.  They also said they would send it back to Kimber for me if I wanted them to.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

FWIW, if this turns out to be a mag problem, my STI has run flawlessly on two different batches (visible design differences) of Wilson 500 mags with no modifications to the gun or the mags. You may want to include them in your test sample.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[tony357 386]

you need to make sure your ramped barrel clears the front casing of those mags they do not on the wilsons which i modified to work somewhere on this forum theirs a thread on it..

 

mine would hold the casing with the shake test but i knew it was the problem so i purchased the gauges and a trigger pull gauge to set the extractor tension, I own 6 1911's so it was a good investment for me..it is not all that expensive..

 

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/measuring-tools/trigger-pull-gauges-weights/premium-trigger-pull-gauge-prod9961.aspx

 

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/handgun-tools/action-frame-tools/extractor-tools/extractor-tension-gauge-set-prod16125.aspx

 

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/handgun-tools/action-frame-tools/extractor-tools/1911-auto-extractor-tensioning-tool-prod16110.aspx

[tony357 386]

had to go back and find these pics as i could not locate the thread..

 

wilson mag before alteration notice it sticks above the ramp this is where your barrel will make contact with the mag, that material needed to be removed or it damages your ramped barrel..

 

 

 

Kimber mag..

 

[tony357 386]

This is what happens to the barrel..

 

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modified wilson mags.

 

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modified wilson mag in frame..

 

[steely 0]

FWIW, if this turns out to be a mag problem, my STI has run flawlessly on two different batches (visible design differences) of Wilson 500 mags with no modifications to the gun or the mags. You may want to include them in your test sample.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Thanks, Bob.  I will if I have any problems with the Tripp mags.

[steely 0]

you need to make sure your ramped barrel clears the front casing of those mags they do not on the wilsons which i modified to work somewhere on this forum theirs a thread on it..

 

mine would hold the casing with the shake test but i knew it was the problem so i purchased the gauges and a trigger pull gauge to set the extractor tension, I own 6 1911's so it was a good investment for me..it is not all that expensive..

 

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/measuring-tools/trigger-pull-gauges-weights/premium-trigger-pull-gauge-prod9961.aspx

 

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/handgun-tools/action-frame-tools/extractor-tools/extractor-tension-gauge-set-prod16125.aspx

 

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/handgun-tools/action-frame-tools/extractor-tools/1911-auto-extractor-tensioning-tool-prod16110.aspx

Thanks again, Tony.  I appreciate you taking the time to provide the links and very thorough responses to my questions.  I did not know that extractor gauges and tensioning tools even existed.  May very well be worth the investment for me as well.  I think I am going to learn much about these handguns as time moves forward, especially with all the willing folks on this Forum.

[Maksim 1,504]

...or don't buy a kimber? =P 

 

sorry. =)

 

Unfortunately Kimber's are hit or miss.

 

As far as the ammo... if it has weak ejection, especially on a new gun.  

 

Get some 124 or 147 grain ammo and shoot a few hundred rounds through it.  I know specifically HK tells you to shoot +p or heavy grain ammo the first 250 rounds.

 

Keep us in the loop. 

[steely 0]

had to go back and find these pics as i could not locate the thread..

 

wilson mag before alteration notice it sticks above the ramp this is where your barrel will make contact with the mag, that material needed to be removed or it damages your ramped barrel..

 

 

 

Kimber mag..

 

Packing for a striper fishing trip to Montauk tomorrow, but I took the slide off and looked at each of the Tripp mags while inserted in the gun and they do not stick up like the Wilson in the pictures you shared (pre-customization).  I also compared them to the Kimber mag and the lip of the Tripps appears to be just a bit lower than even the Kimber mag so I don't think I will have the problem with a damaged ramp/barrel.  Sorry to see that you had that problem, but glad that you went to the trouble of sharing the pics so we all can benefit from the experience.  I will report back on the Tripp performance when I get back from Montauk and hit the range.  Thanks!

[steely 0]

...or don't buy a kimber? =P 

 

sorry. =)

 

Unfortunately Kimber's are hit or miss.

 

As far as the ammo... if it has weak ejection, especially on a new gun.  

 

Get some 124 or 147 grain ammo and shoot a few hundred rounds through it.  I know specifically HK tells you to shoot +p or heavy grain ammo the first 250 rounds.

 

Keep us in the loop. 

Yes, but that ship has sailed.  :-)

 

I haven't seen anything but 115gr 9mm ammo available for the past 5 months or so, other than in home defense rounds.  I will buy some when I find it and give it a try, to see if the casings dribble out or not.  Will definitely keep you guys in the loop.  Thanks for the input!

[Maksim 1,504]

What you can do... go to the range, get a video camera and tripod and record it. =)

 

When I bought my HK P30L, it was basically new.  First 250 rounds or so, it would have stovepipe issues with regular ammo.  After that, thousands of trouble free rounds. 

 

After you got the gun, did you clean all the shipping grease and crap out of it? Then oil and lube it as necessary? 

[steely 0]

Yes, field stripped and cleaned, then lubed lightly with Rem oil before the first round was fired. Did the same with my trouble free Kimber TLE II in .45. Oh well, it'll get fixed at some point.

[tony357 386]

You need 500 rnds through the kimber to break it in..  124 gr would be best.

[tony357 386]

...or don't buy a kimber? =P 

 

sorry. =)

 

Unfortunately Kimber's are hit or miss.

 

As far as the ammo... if it has weak ejection, especially on a new gun.  

 

Get some 124 or 147 grain ammo and shoot a few hundred rounds through it.  I know specifically HK tells you to shoot +p or heavy grain ammo the first 250 rounds.

 

Keep us in the loop. 

Mine ran right out of the box i just picked a poor choice for a mag to use with it.. But if the info is out their it will keep other people from making the same mistake.. 

 

only other issue i had was the extractor and at some point in time all internal extractors need adjustment.

 

I adjusted the STI right out of the box.. also going to be working on the rails and guide rod on the trojan very rough action and the trigger definatly needs work..  From a competition ready standpoint i did much better with the kimber as far as fit and finish..Plus the STi front site is off to the left..

 

All of these things are a non issue for me as i can do the work myself plus i started with 1911's in a time this was normal today's shooters expect more from gun makers than 20+ years ago.. Not everthing is going to run perfect out of the box.. And a couple rounds fired at the factory is not a test, maybe to make sure it goes bang and not go bang safety test thats about it..

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Tony:

 

Judging from the baseplates in your pictures, you have some of the older Wilson mags. I have 5 of those (which work fine in my STI). I also have 6 of a newer design Wilson mag - which I believe address the problem you were having with the Kimber. They have narrower base plates and a witness hole for the tenth round. The older mags have the wide base plates, as seen in your photo, and they lack a tenth round witness hole.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[tony357 386]

Tony:

 

Judging from the baseplates in your pictures, you have some of the older Wilson mags. I have 5 of those (which work fine in my STI). I also have 6 of a newer design Wilson mag - which I believe address the problem you were having with the Kimber. They have narrower base plates and a witness hole for the tenth round. The older mags have the wide base plates, as seen in your photo, and they lack a tenth round witness hole.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

I am glad they addressed it.. it was a pita...

[steely 0]

Update: I bought some 124 gr PMC ammo at the range yesterday, and shot 50 rounds of it plus 50 rounds of 115 gr WWB.  The Tripp magazines worked fine (no failure to lock the slide after the last round, and no feed issues).  No failure to lock the slide with the Kimber supplied magazine either.

 

Field stripped to clean the gun this morning and I could find no dings or dents on the ramp. Whew!

 

According to my wife, 7 or 8 out of 10 casings per magazine were landing a few feet to my left and behind me, while the other 2 or 3 still dribbled out, landing on the shooting bench.  She saw no difference between the 124 and 115 gr ammo.  I thought of this today - we failed to note if the dribblers were early in the mag, or the later rounds, or intermittent within each magazine fired (I used 4 total mags).  Will note this on my next range trip.

 

With 340 rounds through the pistol, I will continue to use it "as is" and monitor results.  Based upon yesterdays performance, it appears the gun is working better than the first three times I used it.

 

Thanks again for all the input and help!  Will post again after next range visit.

[tony357 386]

The dribblers are a sign of low extractor tension..

[steely 0]

Thanks, Tony.  I will look into making an adjustment after I run the first 500 rounds through the gun.  I appreciate all of your help.

[steely 0]

Update:  At approximately 500 rounds down the pipe the gun is performing better.  Last shot about 80 rounds (including 124 grain and 115 grain ammo) with no casings hitting me in the head, and casings did not dribble out onto the shooting bench.

 

Thanks to everyone that provided input and support on this matter!