UTAH no longer good in PA

[RS1200XL 4]

That is one of the reasons I am just over the border in NC - Brunswick County. And with a NC resident CCW permit I can carry in PA.

But you still need a purchase permit ;-)

 

I'll take ccw only over a permit to purchase.

[mipafox 438]

 

I believe one can still drive in a car with an out of state CCW open/concealed... and open carry without permit.

 

I won't do that merely because if I accidentally cover I don't want to go to jail.

This is true. You can carry any way you like in a vehicle in PA with a carry permit from any state. And you can OC anywhere except in public in Philly. (just leave it in the car in Philly until you know better)

 

Accidentally cover your OC firearm? Are you wearing a cape now or something? Tuck your shirt in.

[Sota 1,191]

 

This is true. You can carry any way you like in a vehicle in PA with a carry permit from any state. And you can OC anywhere except in public in Philly. (just leave it in the car in Philly until you know better)

 

Accidentally cover your OC firearm? Are you wearing a cape now or something? Tuck your shirt in.

That's what it looks like to me as well, but I'd sure like to hear it from a gun rights lawyer in PA.

Know any that could answer the question?

[mipafox 438]

That's what it looks like to me as well, but I'd sure like to hear it from a gun rights lawyer in PA.

Know any that could answer the question?

It doesn't look like anything. You are being paranoid. You should be far more worried about whether or not FOPA covers you in NJ with a handgun in your car under the justification that "I am planning to cross a state line."

 

I think some of you have received that advice from a gun lawyer in NJ. Great news! The NJ Supreme Court has essentially ruled that firearms violations are Strict Liability in New Jersey. Due diligence is worthless. God could become the AG and the Governor in NJ at the same time and give you a written opinion about gun laws on stone tablets and you could be thrown in jail for following His advice.

 

But, anyway, I don't know any PA attorney. I would be cautious of Prince Law. He seems to have published some stuff that seems questionable and taken some pretty bad cases to PA appeals courts that have resulted in bad case law where no case law was required. He could be the best thing nice sliced bread for all I now, no personal experience. But his name comes up a lot and I am cautious.

[Rifleman1 32]

But you still need a purchase permit ;-)

 

I'll take ccw only over a permit to purchase.

 

You're right. But then, I could always carry in NC on any of the 5 CCW permits I already have which are all good in NC and make my purchases in PA.

[Sota 1,191]

It doesn't look like anything. You are being paranoid. You should be far more worried about whether or not FOPA covers you in NJ with a handgun in your car under the justification that "I am planning to cross a state line."

 

I think some of you have received that advice from a gun lawyer in NJ. Great news! The NJ Supreme Court has essentially ruled that firearms violations are Strict Liability in New Jersey. Due diligence is worthless. God could become the AG and the Governor in NJ at the same time and give you a written opinion about gun laws on stone tablets and you could be thrown in jail for following His advice.

 

But, anyway, I don't know any PA attorney. I would be cautious of Prince Law. He seems to have published some stuff that seems questionable and taken some pretty bad cases to PA appeals courts that have resulted in bad case law where no case law was required. He could be the best thing nice sliced bread for all I now, no personal experience. But his name comes up a lot and I am cautious.

Understand I appreciate the advice you sometimes impart here. However I do wish that you could present it somewhat less salty? We here in NJ are not in the comparative gun owners utopia you are and are trying to come to grips with the changes created by your attorney general. We understood clearly before: get the Utah/Florida permit(s), carry (open or concealed) in PA without reservation. Then the Florida door was closed, and now Utah. There is now a whole new segment of PA laws that have to be considered diligently before one of Us can consider Open Carry in PA. (15)(ii) alone raises concerns that are valid and need to be addressed. You as a resident of PA don't have to consider them since you can circumvent them with procurement of permit. We as a lot will run afoul of the concealed carry without a PA-recognized license for such by default; we have to get into the state by some form of transport. If the AG has dissolved the Utah reciprocity by use of (15)(ii) then it casts some serious doubt as to whether said permit satisfies the requirements under (15). Further, directly from the MPOETC...

 

Carrying a firearm unconcealed on one’s person does not violate §6106. However,

a person who is engaging in “open carry” of a firearm violates §6106 when that

person enters a vehicle with the gun in his possession and the person does not

possess a valid and lawfully issued license to carry a firearm and is not exempt

from licensing.

It would not be a stretch for a PA LEO of any flavor to assume "a valid and lawfully issued license to carry a firearm" actually means "a valid and lawfully issued PA license to carry a firearm." At which point there could be a whole lot of questions that need to be answered, and probably not without the wearing of bracelets and riding in the back of a cruiser.

 

What you see as paranoia I see as Due Diligence, so please keep that in mind when discussing this topic.

 

Thanks!

[mipafox 438]

 

Understand I appreciate the advice you sometimes impart here. However I do wish that you could present it somewhat less salty? We here in NJ are not in the comparative gun owners utopia you are and are trying to come to grips with the changes created by your attorney general. We understood clearly before: get the Utah/Florida permit(s), carry (open or concealed) in PA without reservation. Then the Florida door was closed, and now Utah.

Point taken.

 

There is now a whole new segment of PA laws that have to be considered diligently before one of Us can consider Open Carry in PA. (15)(ii) alone raises concerns that are valid and need to be addressed. You as a resident of PA don't have to consider them since you can circumvent them with procurement of permit. We as a lot will run afoul of the concealed carry without a PA-recognized license for such by default; we have to get into the state by some form of transport. If the AG has dissolved the Utah reciprocity by use of (15)(ii) then it casts some serious doubt as to whether said permit satisfies the requirements under (15).

No, it raises no concerns. 15 does not qualify 1 through 14 or 16. It is an additional exception. Otherwise it would be 6106© or 6106(b)11(i). You will never find any person (or lawyer) that says otherwise, because it makes no sense. 1 through 16 are all independent exceptions. Pick one and you are good.

 

Further, directly from the MPOETC...

 

It would not be a stretch for a PA LEO of any flavor to assume "a valid and lawfully issued license to carry a firearm" actually means "a valid and lawfully issued PA license to carry a firearm." At which point there could be a whole lot of questions that need to be answered, and probably not without the wearing of bracelets and riding in the back of a cruiser.

 

What you see as paranoia I see as Due Diligence, so please keep that in mind when discussing this topic.

MPOEPTC training is not law (much of it is incorrect), and even if it was, that is ridiculous because the law is clear.

 

Perhaps you can find something Bloomberg said about carry in PA that will cause you further concern, since you are looking everywhere for it. You are not doing due diligence, you are trying to convince yourself that the law does not mean what it says or that police will not follow the law because of the combination of a few words in an annual training class. Do you do any Continuing Education? I assure you police do not break out MPOETC to interpret law on the side of the road. It is an awareness course. PA cops either know you broke a law, and will call the office to check if you give them compelling information that gives them doubt, or are not sure and will call the office to check.

 

The law is clear, it is not in dispute, and never has been. Now, I understand you are concerned, and you certainly have no reason to take my word for it. You are also batshit crazy. If a lawyer can help you with that, call one. I suggest routine exercise and at least 7 hours of sleep just kidding, but seriously.

[olderguy 0]

Well, we are all SOL.  She made the agreement with Utah, but only for residents:

 

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Crime/Utah_reciprocity_agreement.pdf

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Well, we are all SOL.  She made the agreement with Utah, but only for residents:

 

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Crime/Utah_reciprocity_agreement.pdf

 

As expected. I'm sure Texas is next...

[Sota 1,191]

so we OC. big deal. I would love someone in PA to ask me why I'm OC'ing so I could tell them their AG forced it upon us.

[olderguy 0]

so we OC. big deal. I would love someone in PA to ask me why I'm OC'ing so I could tell them their AG forced it upon us.

I do, and I carry a half page hand-out that tells anyone that asks why I am doing so instead of CC.

[Sota 1,191]

I carry copies of that PA Open Carry brochure. Otherwise I prefer to engage in conversation. The more you talk and show people you're not some crazy person with a GUN, the better.

[olderguy 0]

May be a light at the end of the tunnel.

HB2398.pdf

[Sota 1,191]

... am I reading that right?

do those changes mean ANY non-resident CC permit means you can CC in PA?

with (15) totally gutted it means the AG can't screw anyone anymore.

 

so, who do I have to throw money at to support this?

[Mr.Stu 1,936]

I'm reading it the same way. I hope it gets traction unlike the pro-gun bills in NJ.

 

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[HBecwithFn7 296]

May be a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

So, what are the chances of this actually passing?  Are there sufficient pro-2A's on the appropriate committees?  Can the AG futz with it at all or try to tie it up in regs if it ever becomes law?  And what would it do to the state reciprocal agreements that exclude non-residents? Would it actually nullify them?

[kirk2022 43]

There is A thread running on this over on the PAFOA forum.   If anyone wants to follow it.   Would be nice if it gets thru.

[magnawing 5]

So...If I read it right, it would go back to the way it was.  No big change, just stepping back a couple of months.

 

the state where you have your license must be reciprocal with PA and The AG must determine that the states' gun laws are similar. 

 

What's to stop her from saying "I've determined that their laws are not similar enough to ours" and PA becomes the next MD, NY, NJ where the only acceptable permits are the ones issued by them with no reciprocity.  The way I read it, that determination is at the AG's discretion.

 

I hope I'm wrong but nothing is real until it passes and the AG shows her true colors.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

So...If I read it right, it would go back to the way it was.  No big change, just stepping back a couple of months.

 

the state where you have your license must be reciprocal with PA and The AG must determine that the states' gun laws are similar. 

 

What's to stop her from saying "I've determined that their laws are not similar enough to ours" and PA becomes the next MD, NY, NJ where the only acceptable permits are the ones issued by them with no reciprocity.  The way I read it, that determination is at the AG's discretion.

 

I hope I'm wrong but nothing is real until it passes and the AG shows her true colors.

 

If you're referring to the last part of the bill, notice that it's in [brackets,] meaning (I believe) that it's to be stricken from the current statute. The parts that are underlined, seem to be the "replacement" language.  That entire last section is in [brackets]....  :)

[Sota 1,191]

howard is correct.

bill as it stands now STRIKES (15) completely, thereby removing any need for reciprocity agreements. In fact I'm pretty sure if it passes as written it basically nulls out the work she's done in the latest agreements with FL and UT.

 

simply put if signed into law, if you have a CC license from ANY state you'd GTG to CC in PA. Period.

 

of course how does that effect states that have Constitutional Carry I have no idea.

[NYMetsFan86 9]

I'd love for my Utah to be GTG again...i'll remain optimist. I am guessing all the peeps with florida ccw will be back in the boat as well

[HBecwithFn7 296]

howard is correct.

 

 

But he's not "Howard...."     he's "HBEC."  Or, if you wish, he's "J. Quenton Public, Jr,"   

[ogfarmer 138]

Pa lawyer Joshua Prince help craft this bill

[Newtonian 453]

I almost got excited when I saw this: 

 

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Crime/Utah_reciprocity_agreement.pdf

 

Unfortunately, it simply affirms PA's attorney general's recent decision not to honor non-resident permits.

[Sota 1,191]

But he's not "Howard...."     he's "HBEC."  Or, if you wish, he's "J. Quenton Public, Jr,"   

yea yea yea... shut up!

I had a damn short circuit in my brain paths for some reason.

 

ARNOLD is correct.

 

better?