Activist critical of police undergoes use of force scenarios

[bulpup 98]

"Shoot or Don't Shoot" Arizona Reverend critical of Police accepts offer to go through use of force scenarios with Sheriff's Department. 

 

Video news report below.

 

http://www.fox10phoenix.com/Clip/11014328/activist-critical-of-police-undergoes-use-of-force-scenarios

[High Exposure 5,680]

Good for him. I wish more people would do this, especially the so called "leaders" of these movements.

 

Still, I wish he would have done this before he incited an entire community into hating the Police. I am glad that it was eye opening for him, I hope he can change the momentum of the movement he started in AZ.

 

As for the scenarios, good simple Use of Force decision making. No surprises how either of them reacted either. As for the shooting of the "unarmed guy", with what happened on that scenario - and assuming similar UoF guidelines in AZ as NJ, it is within guidelines.

 

ETA: while he was shot and "killed" in the first scenario, a trained officer/shooter should have cut the angle to the right to keep the suspect and especially his hands in view. Hands kill watch them always.

[n4p226r 105]

The second guy he shot, at that distance, could have still hurt the officer after being shot at that distance as well it seems.

[djg0770 481]

We all can monday morning quarterback this Reverend.  What I appreciate, just as a concerned citizen, was that he was man enough to admit that it was an eye opening experience.

[High Exposure 5,680]

Wasn't MMQ. Sorry it came off that way. I was just stating with proper training, it would have been more likely to end in a clean arrest, with no one injured, and no manhunt for a cop killer that would probably end in another shooting or a suicide.

 

Basically, I'm saying that the people he (the rev) was condemning for being so trigger happy - the police - are actually trained to handle this scenario so it is less likely to end in gunfire at all by anyone - thereby saving lives.

[High Exposure 5,680]

The second guy he shot, at that distance, could have still hurt the officer after being shot at that distance as well it seems.

Absoutley, it is called the reactionary gap - sometimes referred to as the 21 foot rule or the Tueller Drill. Not understanding it, and the true capabilities of your weapon system, will cause you to lose every time.

 

The Rev would have been justified to put 5,6,7 rounds or more into his attacker at that distance.

[bulpup 98]

What I appreciate, just as a concerned citizen, was that he was man enough to admit that it was an eye opening experience.

Absolutely. Additionally, it makes me

Feel he is a genuine upstanding man that just had no way to get a grasp on the opposite side of it.

 

Furthermore,I would like to see more PD's make similar offers.

[High Exposure 5,680]

I know quite a few PDs have offered this opportunity. The problem is no one takes them up on it.

 

Do you think someone like Rev Al Charlatan would risk going through a scenario and shooting an unarmed black man in a simulation? Do you think at this point in his career he could risk having his mind changed?

[bulpup 98]

I know quite a few PDs have offered this opportunity. The problem is no one takes them up on it.

I wonder if the times have changed enough in recent months that people might be interested more now. It seems this recent offer was timely and successful.

 

Do you think someone like Rev Al Charlatan would risk going through a scenario and shooting an unarmed black man in a simulation? Do you think at this point in his career he could risk having his mind changed?

Um, no. What would make you think I think that? LOL! There's more people out there than that guy and the deeply entrenched handful, however.

[High Exposure 5,680]

Lol I was using the "royal" you, not specifically you brother.

 

I just meant that the opportunities are out there for those that want them. But the folks that need them always decline.

[Recon Racoon 49]

I know quite a few PDs have offered this opportunity. The problem is no one takes them up on it.

 

 

I wish my PD would do something like this. I'd actually be very interested in going through something like this.

[High Exposure 5,680]

According to Shawn Moore all the Cops by you are criminals, JBTs, and scumbags.

[ChrismNJ 0]

i would say shoot!

[High Exposure 5,680]

He is currently backtracking on his Twitter feed saying it is all media spin, and that they pulled a fast one on him.

 

He trying to save face with his "parishioners".

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/reverendmaupin

 

[Recon Racoon 49]

According to Shawn Moore all the Cops by you are criminals, JBTs, and scumbags.

I'm not saying they're all angels, buuuuuuuut they're not evil, Darth Vader worshiping, baby stomping, scumbags. 

 

For instance, I spoke with a LT today about handgun permits. Open minded, supports our rights and even encourages us to own  guns. Most of the officers are the same way. IMO, not bad people. Just have to approach the situation in a diplomatic manner and there's no reason for any one to be treated badly. 

[GRIZ 3,369]

Absolutely. Additionally, it makes me

Feel he is a genuine upstanding man that just had no way to get a grasp on the opposite side of it.

 

Furthermore,I would like to see more PD's make similar offers.

I remember after Amado Dialo was shot in NY, NYPD invited the press up to Rodman's Neck and ran them through some FATS and Simunitions scenarios. Some participated, more watched, but not all the newspapers published anything about it.

[High Exposure 5,680]

I'm not saying they're all angels, buuuuuuuut they're not evil, Darth Vader worshiping, baby stomping, scumbags.

 

For instance, I spoke with a LT today about handgun permits. Open minded, supports our rights and even encourages us to own guns. Most of the officers are the same way. IMO, not bad people. Just have to approach the situation in a diplomatic manner and there's no reason for any one to be treated badly.

Hey I worship Darth Vader!!

 

Now, Wait... so the cops in Carney's Point are good people, they support the 2A, and are open minded! I am shocked! /sarcasm

 

Ask them about going through some use of force training or a civilian academy. See what they say.

[1LtCAP 4,267]

I wonder if the times have changed enough in recent months that people might be interested more now. It seems this recent offer was timely and successful.

 

Um, no. What would make you think I think that? LOL! There's more people out there than that guy and the deeply entrenched handful, however.

 

no, they mostly won't. it's their personality. they cannot/will not admit being wrong, therefore they cannot/will not risk being proven such.

[bulpup 98]

The offer has been made to Al Sharpton by the same Sheriff. This article has some follow up to the first video as well. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/sheriff-joe-arpaio-invites-al-sharpton-to-take-the-unwinnable-shoot-or-be-killed-police-test/

[Guest]

Wasn't MMQ. Sorry it came off that way. I was just stating with proper training, it would have been more likely to end in a clean arrest, with no one injured, and no manhunt for a cop killer that would probably end in another shooting or a suicide.

 

 

I disagree.

 

Not everyone can be "talked down" and if they break the 21' rule I'd rather use my weapon instead of hand to hand combat where the other guy could very easily get a lucky hit on me and kill me

[High Exposure 5,680]

Agreed, not "everyone". Hence why I said "more likely" instead of "guaranteed".

 

I also agree, shoot when it's time to shoot, talk when it's time to talk, and don't confuse the two.

 

In my experience, being able to watch the hands and see a nearby weapon make it easier to prevent the weapon from getting in the bad guys hands. A bad guy without a weapon is more likely to be arrested and not shot.

 

Approaching that guy from the sides, instead of straight down the middle between two parked cars would have put the "officer" (re player) in a position of advantage and allowed him to keep his eyes on the unknown. This would lead him to make better decisions faster, allowing him to disrupt the perps OODA loop and win.

 

A trained person who has some experience under his belt would know this and use it to prevail. A person with an hour of UoF training who things violence happens the way it does on TV would not.