The mystery of the matching D/L in NJ for firearms purchases

[Rob0115 1,105]

This is an interesting discussion that has been beaten to death--but that's nothing new.  However, I just called RTSP to try and purchase from them and they said, "You must have a NJ DL that matches your FID."  

 

They aren't the only ones who have gotten it wrong, but some have gotten it correct.  Why don't people who operate FFL's know the laws with regards to purchasing?  I know NJ is an onerous jurisdiction for gun sales but why not do the research?  

 

I just hung up the phone, again, with the NJSP FIU and they've repeated if I live at the address printed on my FID, my drivers license doesn't need to match.  Of course I must also live at the address too but that's was a friendly side bar by the sergeant I spoke with, again, at the FIU.  

[Lightfighter124 3]

I went to Dicks and asked to see a shotgun few months ago and they asked for my FID and license.   one said Freehold the other said Freehold twp.  that became an issue that i had to go and fix my license because fixing my FID was not really a viable option here.

[Howard 538]

Why do you need a driver's license if you don't drive?  I can't imagine the law required FID holders to also apply for driver's licenses.  So, just tell whoever is asking that you don't have a driver's license.  I would imagine if it is photo ID they are looking for your passport (if you have one) would be fine and that does not have an address on it.

[mikeyjones 88]

Why do you need a driver's license if you don't drive? I can't imagine the law required FID holders to also apply for driver's licenses. So, just tell whoever is asking that you don't have a driver's license. I would imagine if it is photo ID they are looking for your passport (if you have one) would be fine and that does not have an address on it.

That's an interesting scenario. The state does issue id's through the dmv that aren't licenses as well.

 

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[Howard 538]

That's an interesting scenario. The state does issue id's through the dmv that aren't licenses as well.

 

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True but they did not do that when the FID came into existence and I don't think the law has changed since it was originally introduced.

[Rob0115 1,105]

Yes if you get the state issued ID you must surrender any drivers licenses that you have.

 

 

The legal answer directly from the NJSP Firearms unit is NO you do not have to have a matching D/L but must be a resident (own or rent) at the address on the FID or you need to get an FID for out of state residents, which they do, but not necessary for NJ residents that reside elsewhere and have out of state DL.  

 

The D/L is used to establish identity not residence.  A passport which has no address can establish identity.  A government issued photo ID is used for identity.  The FID is from the issuing authority and has your address on it.  The NICS website has D/L as an optional field.  

[Rob0115 1,105]

I went to Dicks and asked to see a shotgun few months ago and they asked for my FID and license.   one said Freehold the other said Freehold twp.  that became an issue that i had to go and fix my license because fixing my FID was not really a viable option here.

Question #2, I should make another poll but F it.  Do you need an FID to handle firearm in NJ?  The answer, from the same guy at the NJ State Po-po,  is NO.  What if you lived out of state and wanted the gun shipped?

[PK90 3,570]

Not to put a damper on things, but I believe that the Proposed Rules Change went into effect, which states that a FPID is no longer valid if you have an address change.

 

 

NEW JERSEY ADMINISTRATIVE CODE

Copyright © 2015 by the New Jersey Office of Administrative Law

 

*** This file includes all Regulations adopted and published through the ***

*** New Jersey Register, Vol. 47, No. 24, December 21, 2015 ***

 

TITLE 13. LAW AND PUBLIC SAFETY  

CHAPTER 54. FIREARMS AND WEAPONS  

SUBCHAPTER 1. FIREARMS PURCHASER IDENTIFICATION CARD AND PERMIT TO PURCHASE A HANDGUN

 

N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.7 (2015)

 

§ 13:54-1.7 Validity of a State of New Jersey firearms identification card and permit to purchase a handgun and form of register 

 

   (a) A State of New Jersey firearms purchaser identification card shall be valid until such time as the holder becomes subject to any of the disabilities set forth by law and this subchapter pertaining to an applicant's eligibility. Upon becoming subject to any of the disabilities set forth in this subchapter, the card shall be void and shall be returned to the Superintendent within five days. A State of New Jersey firearms purchaser identification card shall not be valid for more than 30 days after the information contained therein is no longer reflective of the issued person, that is, current address, name change, and/or sex change.

 

(b) A permit to purchase a handgun and form of register shall be valid for a period of 90 days from the date of issuance and may be renewed by the issuing authority for good cause for an additional 90 days. In no event shall a permit to purchase a handgun be valid for more than 180 days from the date the permit was originally issued.

 

 

HISTORY:

 

Amended by R.2007 d.378, effective December 17, 2007.

See: 39 N.J.R. 2324(a), 39 N.J.R. 5349(a).

In (b), inserted "the" preceding "date of issuance", inserted "good cause for", deleted ", for a total of 180 consecutive days", and inserted the second sentence.

Amended by R.2015 d.094, effective June 15, 2015.

See: 46 N.J.R. 2393(a), 47 N.J.R. 1328(a).

Section was "Validity of firearms identification card and permit to purchase a handgun". Rewrote the section.

 

Regarding having to have a FPID to see a firearm, NO, you are not required.

[Rob0115 1,105]

Not a damper at all.  I live more than half the year in the house that is addressed on the FID.  I still pay these awful property and income taxes until I'm completely gone.  I have another address in Florida, but that doesn't mean I still have and live in Montville.  I have a d/l that has my alternate home address.  

 

That statute is for people who change address.  I have not.  

[voyager9 3,434]

Not to put a damper on things, but I believe that the Proposed Rules Change went into effect, which states that a FPID is no longer valid if you have an address change.

 

 

Regarding having to have a FPID to see a firearm, NO, you are not required.

It says that the FPID must have the valid address. It doesn't say that the DL is the only way to prove that the address is valid.

 

 

 

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[jm1827 284]

And I would need a new FPID if I had a sex change, good to know.

[Rob0115 1,105]

It says that the FPID must have the valid address. It doesn't say that the DL is the only way to prove that the address is valid.

 

 

 

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Correct. Identity not address is established with the D/L.

[PK90 3,570]

It says that the FPID must have the valid address. It doesn't say that the DL is the only way to prove that the address is valid.

 

However, if you move, state law says that you have 7 days to change your DL address. 

 

ETA: Why would your DL not be changed to the correct address?

[voyager9 3,434]

However, if you move, state law says that you have 7 days to change your DL address.

 

ETA: Why would your DL not be changed to the correct address?

Off the top of my head, the example mentioned above. Moved out of NJ but kept a home here. Switched DL to new state because it's cheaper but wants to retain NJ FPID.

 

 

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[Rob0115 1,105]

However, if you move, state law says that you have 7 days to change your DL address.

 

ETA: Why would your DL not be changed to the correct address?

What if you had a home in Ocean Beach, NJ and Ramsey NJ. You loved between them as your mood for you. One had the FPID and one has the d/l. You didn't move and you legally reside in both houses.

 

My example was out of state. I still have my residence, the same one on my FPID. I spend time at both. I didn't change addresses I just added one. Perfectly legal.

[PK90 3,570]

Okay. Yes. Your DL does not have to match your FPID. Although, most NJ residents (99%) have only one residence. Changing their DL to the correct address, and now their FPID to the correct address, is required. There will be a period of time where both are valid, but have different addresses. Good luck finding a person/dealer to accept that.

 

ETA: I changed my vote from yes to no AND who cares.

[Rob0115 1,105]

Okay. Yes. Your DL does not have to match your FPID. Although, most NJ residents (99%) have only one residence. Changing their DL to the correct address, and now their FPID to the correct address, is required. There will be a period of time where both are valid, but have different addresses. Good luck finding a person/dealer to accept that.

 

ETA: I changed my vote from yes to no AND who cares.

Lol. I've had a few dealers who were fine with it. I don't really buy here anymore other than I saw a particular gun at two places that my LGS in FL didn't have. I thought I'd throw some local business but they were cheaper in gun broker if I have to have them shipped to FL so I said screw it.

[capt14k 2,052]

Drivers License does not need to match FID. FID needs to be your current residence. In my case my drivers license has a PO Box address and my FID has my home address. I have not had a problem yet. When going somewhere new I bring along other proof that I live at address on FID such as property tax bill and utility bill. Now I also have Utah and Florida CCW Licenses that have home address that matches FID and they have photo on them, so I would hope I would not have a problem anywhere with those as further ID and proof of address. However I have not tested it at any new stores yet.

 

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[PK90 3,570]

By law, your DL is not supposed to have a PO Box. That may come up in the future for you.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

By law, your DL is not supposed to have a PO Box. That may come up in the future for you.

 

Actually, my NJ DL had a PO Box address for many years.  It is allowed, as long as both PO Box and physical addresses are on file with the DMV.

[capt14k 2,052]

By law, your DL is not supposed to have a PO Box. That may come up in the future for you.

That is not true. Your drivers license can have a PO Box. One of the reasons for having a PO Box is if you are being stalked. Also any reason deemed ok by DMV director is allowed. In all honesty I tried to changed my address when I renewed my license and the clerk told me I would have to go to Trenton to change my address because I didn't have enough proof with me that day of new address and it was the last day before my license expired. Thus why I still have a PO Box on my license that i was given an exemption for years ago.

 

http://www.njlaws.com/39-3-9b.html?id=3691&a=

 

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[PK90 3,570]

Thank you for the correction. I hope your stalker gets what she deserves.

[Rob0115 1,105]

Drivers License does not need to match FID. FID needs to be your current residence. In my case my drivers license has a PO Box address and my FID has my home address. I have not had a problem yet. When going somewhere new I bring along other proof that I live at address on FID such as property tax bill and utility bill. Now I also have Utah and Florida CCW Licenses that have home address that matches FID and they have photo on them, so I would hope I would not have a problem anywhere with those as further ID and proof of address. However I have not tested it at any new stores yet.

 

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I use my property tax bill if they want a backup. Form 4473 would allow your NJ FID to be a government issued doc that would be acceptable for residence.

 

The problem is people confuse the issue of identity and residency. In NJ residency is on the FID, or you're non-complaint--the DL is identity because they don't put photos on FIDs.

 

The local dealers by me have had no issue but others have said no way. They won't even make the quick call to the NJSP FIU to find out they are wrong.

 

Even check the private sales. They mostly ask for matching docs however there is no place to record any of these docs on the f2f sales. Any government issued doc is passable for identity with a photo even a passport which doesn't have an address on it.

[maintenanceguy 510]

And I would need a new FPID if I had a sex change, good to know.

 

But what if you had a sex change but identified as your original sex?  Do you need a new FID then?

[Rob0115 1,105]

Hmmmm...going transgender than claiming the other gender. Confusing but probably keep fpid.