What's Everyone Buying Before New Democratic Governor Is Elected

[Rob0115 1,105]

SAPPA second amendment preservation and protection association?  I think that's it. 

[capt14k 2,052]

SAPPA second amendment preservation and protection association? I think that's it.

That's it

 

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[Newtonian 453]

Why are there so many different second amendment groups in NJ? Wouldn't it make more sense for all of them to join forces and form one single much more powerful group?

 

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Because they're all so successful that others want to share in their achievements and glory:

 

(national) 2nd Amendment Foundation = invisible except on Jewish holidays

NRA = collect dues and lobby for multiple machine gun carry at girl scout picnics in Idaho (on Sundays)

NJ2AS = free cold showers on hot summer days, fashionistas

ANJRPC = home on the range

SAPPA = boy I could have fun with this acronym

NJ Hunters = don't bother me it's crow season

Coalition of NJ Firearm Owners = One man band plays a mean kazoo

NJGF = great source of incredible ideas, none of which is remotely feasible

Major ranges: Stop over for a cannoli some time

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Well ANJRPC was one NJS2A, NRA, and the one you mentioned CNJFO. Plus there is at least one more I have seen. Then you have the groups filing lawsuits. My point is why not all join forces.

 

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That's just it, most of us already HAVE!  We work in conjunction with each other on many levels, often behind the scenes, in order to present a sturdy front.  However, we still need to maintain our own individual corporate identities due to being incorporated differently than each other.  These differences allow some of us certain special accommodations (such as writing-off mileage, accepting tax-deductible gifts, services and FUNDS, etc.) and at the same time allow our partners to be PIT BULLS when it comes to LOBBYING for or against individual politicians and their Bills.  Here's a brief overview:

 

ANJR&PC is the official NJ state NRA Association.  They have a branch of their big tree that does a great job with Second Amendment matters here in NJ.  They maintain PAID STAFF as well as dedicated volunteers to spread the word and defend us all during the regular business day at various Hearings in Trenton.  They run an Annual Meeting & Friends of the NRA Dinner.  This year it was held at The Imperia on Easton Avenue in Somerset, NJ.  We attended, buying half a table and donated our personal funds to the auction.  We were the ONLY "New Jersey Second Amendment Group" present at either function!

 

The National Rifle Association does not have an office in NJ nor are they a "NJ Second Amendment Group".  The NRA-ILA (Institute for Legislative Action) is a separately-incorporated entity designed and incorporated as a PAC (Political Action Committee).  The NRA-ILA has a representative (Christian Ragosta, from near Syracuse, NY) on staff that visits NJ regularly and has attended several functions that I have ran and sent a volunteer (Election Volunteer Coordinator Justin Rumble) to our November 19th Pheasant Hunt Fundraiser.  EVC's are volunteers like US.  GRASS ROOTS!  Since the NRA-ILA is incorporated as a PAC, they're allowed to use money donated to recommend WHO to vote for and to directly LOBBY Legislators!  

 

As a 501©3 Non-Profit CNJFO is PROHIBITED BY LAW from making such recommendations or doing any lobbying for specific candidates.  We are however allowed to educate the public about why BAD LAW and proposed BAD LAWS are BAD....some (both here and on social media) just can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that in order to accept "gifts" that aren't taxed and to allow the givers a tax deduction for same, we aren't allowed to LOBBY.  We can INFORM (which we do a great job of, especially using FREE social media and our two we sites:  http://www.cnjfo.com 

[Newtonian 453]

That's just it, most of us already HAVE!  We work in conjunction with each other on many levels, often behind the scenes, in order to present a sturdy front. 

 

At so many levels nobody can count them, and so far behind the scenes you're all invisible except for membership solicitations. Your sturdy fronts are indeed impressive though.

[capt14k 2,052]

That's just it, most of us already HAVE! We work in conjunction with each other on many levels, often behind the scenes, in order to present a sturdy front. However, we still need to maintain our own individual corporate identities due to being incorporated differently than each other. These differences allow some of us certain special accommodations (such as writing-off mileage, accepting tax-deductible gifts, services and FUNDS, etc.) and at the same time allow our partners to be PIT BULLS when it comes to LOBBYING for or against individual politicians and their Bills. Here's a brief overview:

 

ANJR&PC is the official NJ state NRA Association. They have a branch of their big tree that does a great job with Second Amendment matters here in NJ. They maintain PAID STAFF as well as dedicated volunteers to spread the word and defend us all during the regular business day at various Hearings in Trenton. They run an Annual Meeting & Friends of the NRA Dinner. This year it was held at The Imperia on Easton Avenue in Somerset, NJ. We attended, buying half a table and donated our personal funds to the auction. We were the ONLY "New Jersey Second Amendment Group" present at either function!

 

The National Rifle Association does not have an office in NJ nor are they a "NJ Second Amendment Group". The NRA-ILA (Institute for Legislative Action) is a separately-incorporated entity designed and incorporated as a PAC (Political Action Committee). The NRA-ILA has a representative (Christian Ragosta, from near Syracuse, NY) on staff that visits NJ regularly and has attended several functions that I have ran and sent a volunteer (Election Volunteer Coordinator Justin Rumble) to our November 19th Pheasant Hunt Fundraiser. EVC's are volunteers like US. GRASS ROOTS! Since the NRA-ILA is incorporated as a PAC, they're allowed to use money donated to recommend WHO to vote for and to directly LOBBY Legislators!

 

As a 501©3 Non-Profit CNJFO is PROHIBITED BY LAW from making such recommendations or doing any lobbying for specific candidates. We are however allowed to educate the public about why BAD LAW and proposed BAD LAWS are BAD....some (both here and on social media) just can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that in order to accept "gifts" that aren't taxed and to allow the givers a tax deduction for same, we aren't allowed to LOBBY. We can INFORM (which we do a great job of, especially using FREE social media and our two we sites: http://www.cnjfo.com and http://www.JustifiableNeed.com ), be guested onto Gun For Hire Radio's Podcast, spend DONATED funds to publish HUGE billboards informing the public about the SCHEME known as "JUSTIFIABLE NEED", make personal appearances at gun clubs, etc. We can't knock on doors and ask/tell you whom to vote for. NONE of these donated funds and/or membership dues are spent on salaries. In fact most Board of Trustees and Committee Chairs (and it takes almost a dozen of us--and we still need more volunteers, so how about YOU!?) have outlaid hundreds to thousands of dollars to get us where we are today (and continue to do so).

 

NJ2AS is the only other "NJ Second Amendment Group". We have reached-out to him several times for a sit-down, and mentioned said request on Anthony's Podcast several times as well. We hope to SHARE PLANS as soon as he'll agree to sit down with us. NJ2AS chose to not be a part of NJSAFECON 2016 held at the Parsippany Hilton back in July, a decision with an as of yet unknown explanation.

 

The Party of Six is a small band of brothers (now down to five since Albert won his battle) that were all denied their CCW permits and decided to sue the "establishment" to make a point AND win the right to CCW (on an individually demonstrated-need basis). Stephen, their lawyer, is smart as a whip and filed a ton of paper work to make history happen. He's also suing federally based upon "discrimination", so we'll see how far this goes and how long it all drags-out. The guys have a Facebook page and a web site. They also held a "Tavern Meeting" with Steve the lawyer at RTSP. CNJFO attended and donated a 2-year Sustaining Membership (value $100) to their drawing/fundraiser. Just because we can't LOBBY doesn't mean we can't SUPPORT a JUST CAUSE that can eventually help us all!

 

Those here that for whatever reason CHOOSE to avoid social media, DO SO AT THEIR OWN PERIL. News always "breaks" on social media FIRST, then 2-3 days later I see chatter and links to SAME news events and announcements that are old enough to wrap dead fish in at the market (an old Newspaperman's expression--I used to be a Photojournalist many decades ago). Additionally, I'm so busy on social media and making personal appearances and volunteering/mentoring, I don't have the energy late at night to write answers this long to GOOD QUESTIONS (such as yours).

 

In summation, we're working with whomever wants to SHARE and help us fight for our rights and inform the public. Public pressure gets things DONE. The more public we can convince of the fact that Gun Owners aren't the "problem", the easier it will be for all of us to continue to enjoy our rights and freedoms. We hope more of the members of this Forum consider joining us in our fight!

 

On behalf of the Board of Trustees and Committee Members,

 

Yours in the fight to END JUSTIFIABLE NEED,

 

David J. "Rosey" Rosenthal, VP

Coalition of New Jersey Firearm Owners (CNJFO)

http://www.cnjfo.com

Thank you for that informative post, but wouldn't the Super Pac route be the best way to go? Let's face it politicians are bought and paid for. Why else would they vote against GMO labeling? What good is informing voters in this state? It has gotten nowhere. Why not instead buy the Democrats in the Assembly and Senate? The few that aren't for sale in the heavy Dem areas buy their opponent early in the primaries.

 

If NJ2AS won't play nice why are they still around.

 

You didn't mention SAPPA what is their deal

 

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[Smokin .50 1,907]

Thank you for that informative post, but wouldn't the Super Pac route be the best way to go? Let's face it politicians are bought and paid for. Why else would they vote against GMO labeling? What good is informing voters in this state? It has gotten nowhere. Why not instead buy the Democrats in the Assembly and Senate? The few that aren't for sale in the heavy Dem areas buy their opponent early in the primaries.

 

If NJ2AS won't play nice why are they still around.

 

You didn't mention SAPPA what is their deal

 

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I can't speak to "buying politicians" or to forming a "Super Pac" with all of the money YOU (or anybody else here) didn't give me YET.  Got a spare 30 million to throw around?  Ditto to GMO labeling (which isn't a state issue?).  Swaying public opinion by using FACTS has always helped in our fight.  Those that don't even own firearms always compliment us on our ability to give factual info so they can better grasp the real meaning of the issue w/o the news media twisting words around to suit an agenda.  Sorry, but we can't conspire to "buy politicians" and thereby commit federal crimes, lol.

 

As for your other questions, I don't have an answer.  The "SAPPA Group" is a web site collecting funds to feed lawyers for a federal lawsuit alleging RICO violations by NJ's Governor.  So the "they" in SAPPA is the litigant and his lawyers.

 

I feel your and other's frustration, but at the end of the day apathy still rules here and people who VOLUNTEER with time, talent, AND DOLLARS have to read through so much HOT AIR and "blowing-off of steam" that it sometimes makes us pause and ask ourselves, "why do we read and post on NJGF??????".......

 

So can we expect some form of help in time, talent or dollars?  Who wants to help instead of just bitch, eh?

[10X 3,300]

Let's face it politicians are bought and paid for. Why else would they vote against GMO labeling?

Because there is no scientific rationale for doing so, but the compliance costs would be huge?

[capt14k 2,052]

I can't speak to "buying politicians" or to forming a "Super Pac" with all of the money YOU (or anybody else here) didn't give me YET. Got a spare 30 million to throw around? Ditto to GMO labeling (which isn't a state issue?). Swaying public opinion by using FACTS has always helped in our fight. Those that don't even own firearms always compliment us on our ability to give factual info so they can better grasp the real meaning of the issue w/o the news media twisting words around to suit an agenda. Sorry, but we can't conspire to "buy politicians" and thereby commit federal crimes, lol.

 

As for your other questions, I don't have an answer. The "SAPPA Group" is a web site collecting funds to feed lawyers for a federal lawsuit alleging RICO violations by NJ's Governor. So the "they" in SAPPA is the litigant and his lawyers.

 

I feel your and other's frustration, but at the end of the day apathy still rules here and people who VOLUNTEER with time, talent, AND DOLLARS have to read through so much HOT AIR and "blowing-off of steam" that it sometimes makes us pause and ask ourselves, "why do we read and post on NJGF??????".......

 

So can we expect some form of help in time, talent or dollars? Who wants to help instead of just bitch, eh?

I'm not complaining I'm just wondering why we don't have one group we could all donate to, form a PAC, and then buy politicians? It definitely looks more effective on federal level (I know GMO labeling is federal) and half of the state reps aspire to get to federal level. Super PACs are perfectly legal. I'm just not being PC and calling it how it is. I could just say give large donations and behind close doors ask for favors, but they own the politicians. Look at Soros Hillary and Jill Stein are his Demiwhores.

 

For the record I like you more than NJ2AS already. I'm still waiting on the Meg Fellenbaum arrest report from them.

 

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[capt14k 2,052]

Because there is no scientific rationale for doing so, but the compliance costs would be huge?

Says you. Personally I like to know what chemicals I am eating. GMO labeling is not difficult, a simple GMO stamp would suffice.

 

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[10X 3,300]

Says you. Personally I like to know what chemicals I am eating. GMO labeling is not difficult, a simple GMO stamp would suffice.

 

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It's not that simple. Pollen moves genetic material around. Genes mutate spontaneously, genes transpose, nucleotides get added or deleted (sometimes affecting transcription into protein, sometimes not), engineered traits may also arise spontaneously or they may be spontaneously be removed from the germ line. And of course the plant and animal cross breeding humans have practiced since the dawn of agriculture is as much genetic engineering as anything done in the lab.

 

Consider all of the grains in a silo. Sequence them (go ahead, I'll wait)... nearly every grain has a different genetic sequence. What exactly do you want to label?

[Darrenf 422]

Thank you for that informative post, but wouldn't the Super Pac route be the best way to go? Let's face it politicians are bought and paid for. Why else would they vote against GMO labeling? What good is informing voters in this state?

Not to refute your point about politicians being bought, but what reason would anyone have FOR GMO labeling?

 

Edit to add: Ahh I see I'm not the only one to catch this.

[capt14k 2,052]

It's not that simple. Pollen moves genetic material around. Genes mutate spontaneously, genes transpose, nucleotides get added or deleted (sometimes affecting transcription into protein, sometimes not), engineered traits may also arise spontaneously or they may be spontaneously be removed from the germ line. And of course the plant and animal cross breeding humans have practiced since the dawn of agriculture is as much genetic engineering as anything done in the lab.

 

Consider all of the grains in a silo. Sequence them (go ahead, I'll wait)... nearly every grain has a different genetic sequence. What exactly do you want to label?

How about labeling of food that is intentionally genetically modified. 60 other nations can do it but we can't. That is similar to the argument it is impossible to remove 11 million illegals.

 

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[capt14k 2,052]

Not to refute your point about politicians being bought, but what reason would anyone have FOR GMO labeling?

 

Edit to add: Ahh I see I'm not the only one to catch this.

Why not require labeling? Why should a law be passed that doesn't allow states to require labeling? With all the bees dying and a strong link to GMO crops shouldn't people have the info to be given a choice?

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/258708-gmo-labeling-is-good-for-consumers-and-business

 

 

 

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[Darrenf 422]

Why not require labeling? Why should a law be passed that doesn't allow states to require labeling? With all the bees dying and a strong link to GMO crops shouldn't people have the info to be given a choice?

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/258708-gmo-labeling-is-good-for-consumers-and-business

 

 

 

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Let's require labeling of who picked the crops too, was the farmer black? Because that will tell you more than a GMO label will. And guess what, there already is labeling. The fear monger she that want to exploit the mindless masses already have there label.

Just look for this, so that you are only wasting your money, not everyone's.

 

[Darrenf 422]

How about labeling of food that is intentionally genetically modified. 60 other nations can do it but we can't. That is similar to the argument it is impossible to remove 11 million illegals.

 

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How many nations also ban firearm ownership.

 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon

[capt14k 2,052]

I really don't care to debate GMO foods. Monsanto is a scummy corporation that owns politicians and can get them to vote however they want like many other companies that give millions can.

 

My point is if we give millions to politicians as one group we can change their vote. I think that is the easier path than getting out the vote.

 

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[capt14k 2,052]

How many nations also ban firearm ownership.

 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon

My point wasn't it is the reason to do it because others do. My point was it can be done. Re-read.

 

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[Darrenf 422]

My point wasn't it is the reason to do it because others do. My point was it can be done. Re-read.

 

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Who cares that it can be done. The point you are failing to get is that doing it has only negative consequences. The biggest one being catering to an ignorant populace afraid of "chemicals" causing food costs for everyone to go up.

Pro-tip, everything is a chemical.

 

PS, I re-read it. Still don't see you making a valid point.

[capt14k 2,052]

Who cares that it can be done. The point you are failing to get is that doing it has only negative consequences. The biggest one being catering to an ignorant populace afraid of "chemicals" causing food costs for everyone to go up.

Pro-tip, everything is a chemical.

 

PS, I re-read it. Still don't see you making a valid point.

See when you read look at what was quoted in response. 10x said it isn't that simple to label. My response 60 nations do it. That was not my rationale for doing it. I believe states should be allowed to pass laws for labeling foods as GMO. The federal government should not pass a law telling the states they can't. Not going to debate it now. You have your view I have mine. When the bees are gone let's see who was right about GMO.

 

The law was passed due to lobbying which means cash. My point is buy politicians get what you want.

 

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[Darrenf 422]

See when you read look at what was quoted in response. 10x said it isn't that simple to label. My response 60 nations do it. That was not my rationale for doing it. I believe states should be allowed to pass laws for labeling foods as GMO. The federal government should not pass a law telling the states they can't. Not going to debate it now. You have your view I have mine. When the bees are gone let's see who was right about GMO.

 

The law was passed due to lobbying which means cash. My point is buy politicians get what you want.

 

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Your constant mentioning of bees is curious. What do bees being gone have to do with GMO?

 

Remember what I said about ignorant populace? And just so you know, ignorant means uninformed, it is not a slur. We all have something we are ignorant of.

 

And FYI, bees are fine...

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2016/12/06/honeybees-not-crisis-beekeepers/amp/?client=safari

[capt14k 2,052]

Your constant mentioning of bees is curious. What do bees being gone have to do with GMO?

 

Remember what I said about ignorant populace? And just so you know, ignorant means uninformed, it is not a slur. We all have something we are ignorant of.

The use of chemical pesticides Neonicotinoids on the seeds so that it grows up through the plant. That would qualify as GMO.

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/neonicotinoid-pesticides-ongoing-death-of-the-beas-epa-slapped-with-lawsuit/5334816

 

I am not a big environmental person. I watched a few shows about the deaths of bees and it is a major concern. If I cared enough to debate this I would spend hours researching to prove my point. I do not.

 

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[Darrenf 422]

The use of chemical pesticides Neonicotinoids on the seeds so that it grows up through the plant. That would qualify as GMO.

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/neonicotinoid-pesticides-ongoing-death-of-the-beas-epa-slapped-with-lawsuit/5334816

 

I am not a big environmental person. I watched a few shows about the deaths of bees and it is a major concern. If I cared enough to debate this I would spend hours researching to prove my point. I do not.

 

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I absolutely knew you were going to mention neonicotinoids even though that's been debunked a long time ago. In fact, I even posted a link covering that, but you missed that.

 

Like I said, catering to an uninformed populace that will cost me money. Sorry to be blunt, but I don't like Ill informed people pushing for policies that cost me money.

[capt14k 2,052]

I absolutely knew you were going to mention neonicotinoids even though that's been debunked a long time ago. In fact, I even posted a link covering that, but you missed that.

 

Like I said, catering to an uninformed populace that will cost me money. Sorry to be blunt, but I don't like Ill informed people pushing for policies that cost me money.

When was that debunked? What is killing the bees?

 

This was from January 2016

 

http://m.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2016/01/epa-finds-major-pesticide-toxic-bees

 

I believe your info is from March 2015

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2015/03/23/usda-study-concludes-neonics-not-driving-bee-deaths-as-white-house-set-to-announce-bee-revival-plan/amp/

 

Who needs to stay informed?

 

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[Darrenf 422]

When was that debunked? What is killing the bees? This was from January 2016

 

http://m.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2016/01/epa-finds-major-pesticide-toxic-bees

 

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My link if you go back two posts is from today showing nothing is killing the bees, that there are more than ever. I think we're done here if you're going to continue spewing this stuff. And really, Motherjones? Did I somehow wind up on NJ Liberal forums?

[Darrenf 422]

When was that debunked? What is killing the bees?

 

This was from January 2016

 

http://m.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2016/01/epa-finds-major-pesticide-toxic-bees

 

I believe your info is from March 2015

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2015/03/23/usda-study-concludes-neonics-not-driving-bee-deaths-as-white-house-set-to-announce-bee-revival-plan/amp/

 

Who needs to stay informed?

 

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The link again, you linked to an embedded link inside the story I linked to.

 

https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2016/12/06/honeybees-not-crisis-beekeepers/

 

From today.

[capt14k 2,052]

My link if you go back two posts is from today showing nothing is killing the bees, that there are more than ever. I think we're done here if you're going to continue spewing this stuff. And really, Motherjones? Did I somehow wind up on NJ Liberal forums?

Hopefully then we will start seeing European Honeybees in abundance again because personally I rarely run into bees like I did years ago. Still doesn't change the fact that the EPA change their stance on pesticides.

 

https://www.epa.gov/pollinator-protection

 

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[10X 3,300]

GMOs have not been implicated in bee die-offs.    Those were caused by a combination of neonicotinoid insecticides (now finally getting phased out in the US), and the varroa and tracheal mites, all of which hit colonies at about the same time, with devastating effects.   

 

Individual state labeling for GMO content would be less impractical if food didn't cross state lines, but that's hardly the case.  If every state can impose their own labeling requirements, you would quickly end up with dozens of state-specific labels on every food item.   That's an unnecessary regulatory burden, since there is zero evidence that there are any human health implications to GMO food.    And as Capt 14K stated, it's not about science anyway, it's about people hating Monsanto.    But there are ways to express that without driving up the cost of food.

 

Some European countries do it?    Doesn't mean it makes sense.  California labels everything made of any combination of protons, neutrons, and electrons as 'known to the state of California to cause cancer'.   Equally dumb. 

 

Think about the headaches state-specific firearms laws cause.   Every time you cross a state line you need to worry about what poorly thought-out laws might exist to jam you up.  Now imagine that problem expanded to the whole damn food supply.   Lots of downside, no benefits.

 

It's much like the schemes that get proposed every year to serial number all bullets.   You can make superficial arguments about what a great idea it is, but with a little reflection, one realizes it is both a) impossible, and b) useless.

[capt14k 2,052]

Now that is over. Why don't the second amendment groups join forces and form a PAC and actually get something done. Informing the informed about gun law changes will get us nowhere if the legislators are Dems, but buying their vote can get things done

 

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[10X 3,300]

The use of chemical pesticides Neonicotinoids on the seeds so that it grows up through the plant. That would qualify as GMO.

 

 

Applying a pesticide to a plant is most emphatically NOT a genetic modification.     Neonicotinoids have their issues, but they are quite incapable of modifying DNA.