Fighting for CCW/Open Carry in NJ.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Just wondering: has anyone ever tried to get a CCW/Permit to carry here in NJ, who wasn't a former police officer/current security guard?

[Blackfox 1]

Only if you are rich and famous, or friend of the governor, judge, congressman or senator, NJ is no friendly to gun owners.

[djg0770 481]

Only if you are rich and famous, or friend of the governor, judge, congressman or senator, NJ is no friendly to gun owners.

 

I suppose if you're politically connected it would be easy enough... This state is so corrupt, sometimes I feel like every form should have a portion which states "Staple $500 in unmarked unsequential fifties here"

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Well, if I understand correctly, getting the permit depends on the discretion of the town's police chief, and the local judiciary. You need a valid reason as well... but I don't see any valid reason retired cops can carry and not me. If I take a CCW course and have some certification, that may help my case.

 

Some interesting things I picked up from the NRA guide to NJ Gun laws... you can appeal the decision, and if no decision is rendered within 60 days, then it means you get the permit? I'm confused on the last point.

 

But hey, it's worth a shot right? :mrgreen:

[Chad 3]

Yes its worth a shot...BUT, a reason most people dont try is because if you are denied, on all your future applications for PP's or an out of state CCW, when asked the question, Have you ever had a firearms application denied or revoked, you have to answer yes to that question, which will raise some eyebrows.

 

I've also heard (meaning I have no idea if this is true or not) that the "justifiable need" they are looking for are actual attempts on your life, or you fear for you life and must provide at least three police reports where attempts have been made on your life...Again, I do not know if that is accurate, it may just be chatter.

 

Good Luck.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Yes its worth a shot...BUT, a reason most people dont try is because if you are denied, on all your future applications for PP's or an out of state CCW, when asked the question, Have you ever had a firearms application denied or revoked, you have to answer yes to that question, which will raise some eyebrows.

 

I've also heard (meaning I have no idea if this is true or not) that the "justifiable need" they are looking for are actual attempts on your life, or you fear for you life and must provide at least three police reports where attempts have been made on your life...Again, I do not know if that is accurate, it may just be chatter.

 

Good Luck.

 

If I say 'no' to that... then how can they possible check? JW.

[Chad 3]

I do not know, but getting caught lying on a application is an automatic deny. Remeber this IS the computer age, things dont just dissapear anymore. Up to you if you want to take the risk.

[njpilot 671]

Hey Guys,

 

Just got off the phone with a friend's son who is the Chairman of Lonegan's campaign. He said Lonegan is very pro-gun rights and is for the right to carry.

 

Lonegan will be speaking at a "Friends of the NRA" dinner next Thu, the 28th, in Warren if anyone is interested in going.

 

The Chairman is a gun owner and member of Brick Armory. I told him about this website and about the support here for Lonegan and he was happy and stressed the need to get out and vote on the 2nd.

 

I will start a seperate thread, but I told him that some people have sent emails and haven't received responses, which he was disappointed to hear. If anyone has any questions that they haven't been able to get answers to, you can pm me and I will forward them directly to him.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I do not know, but getting caught lying on a application is an automatic deny. Remeber this IS the computer age, things dont just disappear anymore. Up to you if you want to take the risk.

 

This is true. I was just wondering if that is something that comes up in a NICS check.

[Chad 3]

I'm pretty sure NICS is just a criminal history/ warrant check. As far as I know, they check NCIC, SCIC, ATS and CTS. They also check if your FID is valid and has not been revoked. NICS is only called when you are purchasing a firearm, not when your application is in review. I may be wrong.

 

If you are not concerned about answering "yes" to that question you should give it a shot. You never know.....NJ is after all a MAY issue state. I wonder if there are any statistics available to compare how many applicants there are Vs. how many approvals.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I'm pretty sure NICS is just a criminal history/ warrant check. As far as I know, they check NCIC, SCIC, ATS and CTS. They also check if your FID is valid and has not been revoked. NICS is only called when you are purchasing a firearm, not when your application is in review. I may be wrong.

 

If you are not concerned about answering "yes" to that question you should give it a shot. You never know.....NJ is after all a MAY issue state. I wonder if there are any statistics available to compare how many applicants there are Vs. how many approvals.

 

Good point. I'll ask around the local gun shop. They have a few retired cops working there who carry concealed. Though, they can be grumpy...

[flyingcowofdoom 0]

A judge in the superior court of the county in which you live gets to decide if you have a justifiable need. And no, you don't. :roll:

 

--FCOD

[DevsAdvocate 112]

So what justifiable reason does a retired cop have?

[flyingcowofdoom 0]

They have a justifiable need because they know people...

 

I am with you 100%, I considered submitting an application for the hell of it and trying to fight it, but the reality is that because the law does not define "justifiable need" you're going to get turned down unless you know the judge or some other NJ politician. And then you have to say you were turned down, and that might cause problems. I'd get a FL CCW permit first, so that at least if you get turned down in NJ you've already got the FL permit.

 

If you're in North Jersey you can go to get your FL permit application all squared away next Saturday (30th) at Gun For Hire.

 

--FCOD

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Why get a FL CCW? :?:

[67gtonut 847]

Why get a FL CCW? :?:

 

I am getting mine so I can carry when I see my parents on Florida or my sister in NC....

 

The FLorida CCW is honored in 28+ states I believe....

 

..... and hopefully one day, NJ will honor it :roll:

[djg0770 481]

Why get a FL CCW? :?:

 

Umm, because you can?

 

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/c ... carry.html

 

FLORIDA'S RECIPROCITY STATES

Alabama (1,3,5)

Alaska (1)

Arizona (6)

Arkansas (1)

Colorado (1,4)

Delaware

Georgia (1)

Idaho (3,6)

Indiana (1,3,6)

Kansas (1,4)

Kentucky

Louisiana (1)

Michigan (1,4)

Mississippi (1)

Missouri (1)

Montana (3)

Nevada (1,6)

New Hampshire (1,3,4,6)

New Mexico (1)

North Carolina (1)

North Dakota (3,6)

Ohio (1)

Oklahoma (1)

Pennsylvania (1,6)

South Carolina (1,4,6)

South Dakota (1,3)

Tennessee (1,6)

Texas (1,3,6)

Utah (1,6)

Vermont (2)

Virginia (1,6)

West Virginia (1,4)

Wyoming (1,3)

 

 

(1) While Florida's law allows licensees to carry stun guns, knives, and billy clubs in a concealed fashion, the laws in these states allow for concealed carry of handguns or pistols ONLY, NOT WEAPONS IN GENERAL. Florida license holders are prohibited from carrying other types of weapons while in these states.

 

(2) The State of VERMONT is unique in that it does not issue weapon/firearms licenses. Florida licensees - indeed, licensed or unlicensed citizens from any state - may carry in Vermont. This presents a problem for reciprocity with Florida. Florida law provides that an out-of-state resident must have in his or her immediate possession a valid license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm. Since Vermont residents have no such license, the right to concealed carry cannot be extended to them under Florida law.

 

(3) Individuals qualify for concealed weapon licenses in these states upon reaching 18 years of age. HOWEVER, any licensee of these reciprocity states who is not 21 years of age or older IS PROHIBITED from carrying a concealed weapon or firearm in Florida.

 

(4) These states will honor the Florida concealed weapon license ONLY IF the licensee is a resident of the State of Florida.

 

(5) The Attorney General's Office of the State of ALABAMA has indicated that Alabama will honor BOTH resident and non-resident Florida licenses. However, the Alabama Attorney General notes that there is some uncertainty as to the limits of Alabama's reciprocity law as it pertains to non-resident licenses. Pending clarification by the Alabama Legislature or a decision by an Alabama court, he urges non-resident Florida license holders to exercise caution. Refer to the Alabama AG's Web page for the latest information.

 

(6) These states issue concealed carry licenses to qualified individuals who are non-residents. These non-resident permits cannot be honored under Florida's reciprocity provision.

 

edited to italicize states where only FL residents can CCW

[Dewhitewolf 8]

Just thought I'd chime in here to clarify a small point of confusion. It has been asked why retired police may carry. They can because they have been granted that right by statute. They do not carry under the "justifiable need" standard. Their right to carry is almost guaranteed under that standard (almost, because they must still meet all of the other criteria for a NJ carry permit).

 

There are also a few "inconveniences" a retired officer must endure. First, retired officers must requalify every six months (other permit holders only need to every two years). They must also do it at their own expense; this is not a government subsidized entitlement. If I understand correctly, if they don't renew their permit for two years or more, they lose the right permanently, and then must try to apply under the "justifiable need" standard.

 

There is also a maximum age of 70 for retired officers to carry. For other permit holders, there is no specified age.

 

I don't know if LEOSA has changed any of this yet.

[rscalzo 3]

I don't know if LEOSA has changed any of this yet.

 

It has made the NJ law moot. Under the LEOSA the NJ Retired Carry Permit is not really needed. However the NJ AG's office has put out a ruling that they feel it is needed if you still reside in NJ.

 

One item that might be unclear is that the permit is tiers to a specific handgun(s). The applicant must qualify with each handgun along with a review to the Use of Force statutes.

 

Another area that many gloss over is the liability insurance. Some seem to thing that the homeowners insurance will cover a criminal or civil trial. Many have found that it isn't so. Anyone not maintaining a policy to cover the Use of Force is nuts. If you ever have been involved in a lawsuit you can appreciate how quickly the cost can add up. One doesn't have to actually go to trial to rack up a bill in the thousands. Plus lawyers will not take an IOU for the costs.

[Chad 3]

Malsua, I agree with you 110%...

 

Criminal are irrational individuals. You can not rationalize with someone who is irrational....it just doesn't work. Instilling FEAR in them works. Streingth works.

 

You are absolutely right when you say criminals dont target gun shows, police departments, etc...FEAR.....

[Maksim 1,504]

This is a great picture Chad.

 

I havent read most of the replies here, but to go along with the picture here is my rational.

 

I live in work in Mercer County. Mercer county is on the border/accross the river from Bucks County PA. Obviously no CCW in NJ with few exceptions, whereas in pa, much more prevelent.

 

If you are a bad guy, and say you need cash, or a car, and you need to rob someone, where are you going to go... Mercer county where no law abiding citizen would have a concealed firearm, or to PA, where any 76 year old granny can be packing?

 

Laws only affect law abiding citizens. Criminals dont care.

[mikelets456 78]

Hey Guys,

 

Just got off the phone with a friend's son who is the Chairman of Lonegan's campaign. He said Lonegan is very pro-gun rights and is for the right to carry.

 

Lonegan will be speaking at a "Friends of the NRA" dinner next Thu, the 28th, in Warren if anyone is interested in going.

 

The Chairman is a gun owner and member of Brick Armory. I told him about this website and about the support here for Lonegan and he was happy and stressed the need to get out and vote on the 2nd.

 

I will start a seperate thread, but I told him that some people have sent emails and haven't received responses, which he was disappointed to hear. If anyone has any questions that they haven't been able to get answers to, you can pm me and I will forward them directly to him.

 

Lonnigan spoke at the Philadelphia tea party and he brought this up...I am voting for him over Christie (RINO). I think Lonnigan is more of a libertarian more than anything...

[Maksim 1,504]

he is a libertarian, the only problem is, he is not going to win as a libertarian. I would not be surprised if he loses the primaries as GOP, that he would quickly run as independent/libertarian.

[mikelets456 78]

he is a libertarian, the only problem is, he is not going to win as a libertarian. I would not be surprised if he loses the primaries as GOP, that he would quickly run as independent/libertarian.

 

The gap is closing and I really think Christie is basically a radical liberal running as a conservative. the dems know that Corzine is leaving a real bad taste in the mouth's of NJ residents, so now they put Christie up as the next "messiah"! My limited knowledge of the three leads me to believe that Lonnigan is the best bet...

[mikelets456 78]

Lonigan:

 

http://lonegan.com/2nd_Amendment_-_Fish_-_Game.aspx

 

Notice the section " I support the Right to carry bill..."

[Guest]

he is a libertarian, the only problem is, he is not going to win as a libertarian. I would not be surprised if he loses the primaries as GOP, that he would quickly run as independent/libertarian.

 

 

i will vote for him however he runs.. i know that the state is a disaster now..