Hollow Point versus Critical Defense

[Peter Goldwing 90]

Im coming to NJ again in a few weeks.

Im trying hard to comply with the law. It says hollow point could only be used at a range. Looks like it is a no-no for conceal carry. A dumb law left over from the time when you weren't allowed to defend yourself.

 So I looked at critical defense at someone suggested. They're hollow point as well.

So whats one to load his conceal gun with to be 100% legal?

Probably target practice, FMJ  bullet. Dumb NJ politicians

 

Hornady Critical Defense Ammo 380 ACP 90 Grain FTX Box of 25 (midwayusa.com)

[High Exposure 5,664]

CD is not a hollowpoint and NJ does not consider them to be.

 

[70gto 142]

25 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

CD is not a hollowpoint and NJ does not consider them to be.

This is exactly the round I was recommended to carry by NJSP as retired LEO as we can't carry HP either

 

 

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

37 minutes ago, Peter Goldwing said:

So I looked at critical defense at someone suggested. They're hollow point as well.

They have a filled cavity, which makes them not hollow.

Take a peek at the NJSP firearms FAQ page. 

[70gto 142]

Critical defense with the rubber plug. Now in the civil case surely to follow, just because this is NJ , a slick talking defendants lawyer you were forced to use to defend yourself with these rounds will argue they are expanding bullets.  As far as criminal charges, unless something has changed they are good to go. (NOT Legal advise} Myself and all other persons I know that carry, carry these.

[Peter Goldwing 90]

8 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

They have a filled cavity, which makes them not hollow.

Take a peek at the NJSP firearms FAQ page. 

"Copy that" and pasted. Thanks

Yes.  They are legal for purchase and possess in your home or on land owned by you.  They are legal to possess and use at a gun range.  They are also legal to possess while traveling to and from such places. Ammunition lacking a hollow cavity at the tip, such as those with a polymer filling, are not considered to be hollow point ammunition.  An example of this can be seen with the Hornady Critical Defense / Critical Duty, Cor-Bon PowRball / Glaser Safety Slug and Nosler Inc. Defense ammunition.

[Bellasdaddy 31]

On 9/9/2023 at 9:19 PM, 70gto said:

 

Retired LEO can carry HPs as they are not federally banned per LEOSA.

[70gto 142]

58 minutes ago, Bellasdaddy said:

Retired LEO can carry HPs as they are not federally banned per LEOSA.

Yeah . I Just didn't want to be the test case in NJ. The place that does its own thing regardless of the law. Hr 218 says its ok I believe . just not sure where nj stood on it, or if they changed their tune.  Gray area to me.

[High Exposure 5,664]

2 hours ago, Bellasdaddy said:

Retired LEO can carry HPs as they are not federally banned per LEOSA.

 Not exactly 100% true.

Retired NJ LE (ie: Retired from an agency in NJ) has to choose to carry under LEOSA or NJRPO. One or the other, can not be both.

Each has their own set of restrictions and allowances.

So, yes, you can carry HP under LEOSA, but you are limited to 10 round mags and must follow NJCCW restricted spaces guidelines.

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

1 hour ago, High Exposure said:

 Not exactly 100% true.

Retired NJ LE (ie: Retired from an agency in NJ) has to choose to carry under LEOSA or NJRPO. One or the other, can not be both.

Each has their own set of restrictions and allowances.

So, yes, you can carry HP under LEOSA, but you are limited to 10 round mags and must follow NJCCW restricted spaces guidelines.

These rules just get sillier and sillier.

Why not keep it simple...

If you are not  the type of person who will shoot someone else at the slightest provocation, real or imagined, then go ahead and carry a gun.

If you are not  the type of person who will shoot someone else at the slightest provocation, real or imagined, then go ahead and carry hollowpoint, ball, or really really pointy bullets. They don't do any damage to anything while they are still in the gun.

If you are not  the type of person who will shoot someone else at the slightest provocation, real or imagined, and therefore unlikely to fire the round in the chamber, then go ahead and carry as many other rounds in the magazine as you like. You're not going to be firing those without firing the one in the chamber first.

If you are not  the type of person who will shoot someone else at the slightest provocation, real or imagined, even from a less sensitive area, e.g. the street, into a more sensitive area, e.g. a school, then go ahead and carry in the school too.

Used to be a cop? Irrelevant.

Currently a cop? Irrelevant.

Currently a Judge? Irrelevant.

A convicted violent felon? Very relevant.

[High Exposure 5,664]

I don’t disagree.

I don’t make the rules. I just have to follow them.

[GrumpyOldRetiree 38]

After the dust settles a little, I would like to see the ANJRPC and/or other 2A organizations (yes, I'm a dues paying member of them all) go after the ban on civilians carrying hollow points in NJ.

Well before carry permits were possible for us peasants, I bought a sub-compact 9mm (Sig 290RS) in case things got so bad here that I was willing to take the legal risk of carrying a concealed pistol.

So over the last 8-10 years I was transporting it to/from the range the legal way and practicing with various hollow points (Federal HST's, Winchester Rangers, Speer Gold Dots, etc.).

The gun eats them all without a problem. Great...now that I have my carry permit, I buy a few boxes of Hornady Critical Defense...only to find out that the gun won't feed them reliably!

It looks like the polymer tip hits the feed ramp and stops short. I tried polishing the feed ramp with Flitz & a dremmel without success.

I currently carry it with Corbon Pow'rball, but they are big $$$ and hard to find and so I have limited experience testing them.

OK...enough bitching for one post!

[Krdshrk 3,877]

6 hours ago, GrumpyOldRetiree said:

I currently carry it with Corbon Pow'rball, but they are big $$$ and hard to find and so I have limited experience testing them.

I'm amazed you even found any.

I still have some old Federal EFMJ as well as Guard Dog - even though it's not the greatest - I'm holding on to it for if it's needed.  Got plenty of Critical Defense/Duty.

[Bellasdaddy 31]

On 9/20/2023 at 3:23 PM, High Exposure said:

 Not exactly 100% true.

Retired NJ LE (ie: Retired from an agency in NJ) has to choose to carry under LEOSA or NJRPO. One or the other, can not be both.

Each has their own set of restrictions and allowances.

So, yes, you can carry HP under LEOSA, but you are limited to 10 round mags and must follow NJCCW restricted spaces guidelines.

Who told you it cannot be both? I think you may be reading into something that is not enumerated by law.  Cops tend to try to get to the bottom of something that doesnt exactly have a bottom…

 

Just trying to expose that a lot of what we think is law is not exactly law and only scary propaganda.

LEOSA does not address magazine capacity but why should it? The magazine is a part of the firearm the law says you can carry.  Why try to seek answers to something that was intentionally left vague.

[Bellasdaddy 31]

Also, as absurd as this may seem…You could fill your hollow points with silicon from Home Depot and then they are not hollow point right? State Police FAQs uses Critical Duty/Defense as an example, not as an absolute.

 

[Bellasdaddy 31]

On 9/20/2023 at 3:23 PM, High Exposure said:

 Not exactly 100% true.

Retired NJ LE (ie: Retired from an agency in NJ) has to choose to carry under LEOSA or NJRPO. One or the other, can not be both.

Each has their own set of restrictions and allowances.

So, yes, you can carry HP under LEOSA, but you are limited to 10 round mags and must follow NJCCW restricted spaces guidelines.

15 Rounds for Retired LEO with a firearm on the RPO list.  

[Bellasdaddy 31]

On 9/20/2023 at 2:11 PM, 70gto said:

Yeah . I Just didn't want to be the test case in NJ. The place that does its own thing regardless of the law. Hr 218 says its ok I believe . just not sure where nj stood on it, or if they changed their tune.  Gray area to me.

“They” want to scare you and it is working.  So far in a state with a population of close to 9 million and rapid re-establishment of 2A rights, this has never happened.

[High Exposure 5,664]

37 minutes ago, Bellasdaddy said:

15 Rounds for Retired LEO with a firearm on the RPO list.  

Correct. 

[GRIZ 3,369]

I carry fmj in a 380.  I have for years. It gives adequate penetration.  Many hollowpoints won't do that.  Remember unless you're shooting at a naked target your hollowpoint is going to pick up material on its way in. Then it's going to.act like a fmj.

[Bellasdaddy 31]

On 9/24/2023 at 12:03 AM, GRIZ said:

I carry fmj in a 380.  I have for years. It gives adequate penetration.  Many hollowpoints won't do that.  Remember unless you're shooting at a naked target your hollowpoint is going to pick up material on its way in. Then it's going to.act like a fmj.

FMJ =  

.380 =

 

[GRIZ 3,369]

1 minute ago, Bellasdaddy said:

FMJ =  

.380 =

 

Okay you're opinion is recognized.