ATF visit yesterday.

[Celraysoda 7]

So I am in the process of applying for my C&R license to get the discounts but forgot to tell my fiancee about it. I was getting ready for work and she comes running in and starts yelling "The FBI are here and he wants to speak to you! What did you do!?!"

 

Well, after getting her up to speed, Al came in and I was really surprised. The ATF agent was extrememly friendly and informative. He looked at my safes and gun locker, told me about the C&R license, proper record keeping and all of this with one of my Pugs on his lap.

 

+1 to the ATF . -1 to New Jersey for not recognizing it :x .

 

Oh well. if you have a C&R, how do you go about using it for eligible discounts? Just ask?

[jermz1987 243]

whats a c&r ?

[tony357 386]

curios and relics.

[Guest]

sometimes the atf seem very helpfull + friendly BUT than shortly after you get a very UNFRIENDLY visit from the new jersey state police - sometimes it takes a few years but it does happen -

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

So I am in the process of applying for my C&R license

 

You are opening yourself up for criminal prosecution in NJ. This point was mentioned several times at the OGAM public hearing. NJ considers you a dealer and you need to have a NJ business/firearms license - which is a whole other set of hoops to jump through and generally will not be granted for C&R. Be careful. Nappen was the first to mention this point at the hearing. He was using it as an illustration of NJ gun laws. Others more knowledgeable than I may be able to expand on my point, but if I were you, I wouldn't.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[PK90 3,570]

I know a few people who have their C&R license and have never heard from the NJSP. Why would they care if you have one? It is not a license to deal. It is a license to collect. The same paperwork is needed when purchasing firearms. The only benefit are the vendor's discounts and no NICS on C&R firearms. I assume that the background check that the Federal Government does is more thorough than the State of New Jersey.

[Joeybones 1]

I could be wrong but I thought if you get a C&R license a search warrant is no longer required for police/ATF to enter your home.

[PK90 3,570]

Read this

[rscalzo 3]

I could be wrong but I thought if you get a C&R license a search warrant is no longer required for police/ATF to enter your home.

 

You are wrong.

 

a very UNFRIENDLY visit from the new jersey state police

Based on what?

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

I remembered the context in which this issue was brought up (by Nappen) at the OGAM public hearing. By and large most people that were testifying were trying to carve out their own little exemption from OGAM. The Task Force was wondering how one would define a "collector" and the subject of a C&R license as criteria was raised. Nappen scotched this idea immediately and he was backed-up by the current head of the NJSP Firearms Unit. It was stated that the NJSP have access to, and monitor the list of C&R licenses issued. If they find one issued in NJ, they will pay you a visit and unless you have a NJ Dealers License you will be prosecuted.

 

IANAL, don't take my word for it, but if someone raised this issue in the process of my application, I'd damn sure consult a gun knowledgeable attorney to make sure my ducks are in a row. JMHO.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Celraysoda 7]

C&R is not considered a "Dealer" License in NJ. I have no worries and the ATF can search my home if they want.

 

...haters!

[HODGIE 3]

The way it works for the rest of the county is the ATF schedules a inspection with you.

You actually take all the weapons you have purchased and logged into your C&R book to them.

Just because you have a C&R does not allow them the right to search your home when they feel they want to.

Do not be afraid to practice your Constitutional rights, If more in NJ did instead of being afraid of everything then

maybe this state would move towards change. Angry citizens demand change, angry subjects get nothing and like it.

[HODGIE 3]

It was stated that the NJSP have access to, and monitor the list of C&R licenses issued. If they find one issued in NJ, they will pay you a visit and unless you have a NJ Dealers License you will be prosecuted.

 

This makes no sense for several reasons the biggest being why would a dealer even have a C&R? The 01ffl supersedes the C&R in just about every way. A C&R does not allow the individual who posses it to resell the items purchased only purchase relics of a specific age and have them shipped directly to themselves avoiding transfer though a 01ffl that is it. I am not saying that is not what was said but they are completely incorrect and if it were taken to court it would be thrown out simply because the stated and noted differences in the license and also the fact that the transfers in NJ still have to go though a 01ffl with exception to the NICS.

 

I would bet my ass if EVERY NJ gun owner applied for their federal 03 C&R NJ would start to honor it, maybe even learn to deal with it. They may inspect you be a royal pain in the ass but they would have to change not us, but as long as they fear in everyone they will continue to win and wining they are.

[Guest]

((( Based on what? )))

based on federal mandate for cooperation between federal , state , + local law enforcement - ie. suspected dealing in firearms , weapons trafficing , + etc. - atf can inspect your records + firearms at any time if you have a c+r license with out a warrant - n.j. state police need a warrant , which any judge will give them based on having a c+r without a n.j. dealers license - atf agents routinely turn over c+r records to the state police firearms unit even if they find no federal violations in them - it all started in the clinton administration when he mandated a 75% reduction in ffl holders + it is still going on - the benefits of a c+r in n.j. are just not worth the hassle ( potential legal fees , felony conviction , firearms confiscation , + etc. ) -

[Guest]

((( This makes no sense for several reasons the biggest being why would a dealer even have a C&R? )))

common practice to keep personal firearms separate from 01 firearms which are registered to the business not the person - if business closes or gives up ffl all listed weapons must be transfered to another ffl or individuals in compliance with federal , state , + local laws - it eliminates a lot of paper work on any c+r eligable items -

[rscalzo 3]

atf can inspect your records + firearms at any time

 

While they CAN inspect, it must be done at a reasonable time.

[Celraysoda 7]

atf can inspect your records + firearms at any time

 

While they CAN inspect, it must be done at a reasonable time.

 

Exactly. The ATF are not going to kick my door in and repel off the roof jumping into the windows demanding to look at my book.

 

I would like to see that...

[coldsolderjoint 84]

I was told by a lawyer, on a somewhat related issue, that if the State or Local Police want to talk to you. They will call you on the phone and/or send you a certified letter before they even think about kicking in your doors. They know who/where you are because you filled out all the paperwork.

 

If you think about it.. it makes sense.. because it would be much safer for the Police to have you come to them rather than the other way around.. especially if you are suspected of having lots of illegal weapons.

[Maksim 1,504]

I was at the OGAM hearing and can explicitly remember the head of state police having an exchange with Nappen or someone that State Police some time ago put out a memo stating that anyone with a C&R is considered a Dealer by the state of NJ and must be registered as such.

[Guest]

((( State Police some time ago put out a memo stating that anyone with a C&R is considered a Dealer by the state of NJ and must be registered as such. ))) -

CORRECT !!!!!!!!!!!!

there is one person who had his c+r for 20 plus years with out an atf inspection , but with in two weeks of his first inspection he got a call from nj state police to make an appointment to come to station with his records , took him back to his house + confiscated all arms acquired under his c+r - took over $10,000.00 + two years to get his legally owned property back - another c+r holder was inspected within 9 months of getting his license before he got his call from the state police - AGAIN c+r is not the thing to have in n.j. - even if you you do not use the c+r to purchase any firearms you are still suspected of being a dealer by n.j. state police firearms unit - if your firearms are confiscated by n.j. you still can't get them back even if you win legal case - state police turn them over to a n.j. licensed dealer to transfer your legally owned property back to you with a fee of at least $50.00 per item - check with art burtis at heritage firearms + evan nappan about this -

 

firearms + evan nappen about this -

[Guest]

(((

Exactly. The ATF are not going to kick my door in and repel off the roof jumping into the windows demanding to look at my book

I would like to see that... )))

 

tell that to a washington security guard named kevin ballow who has been confined to a wheel chair for years since atf knocked on his apartment door - incident started congressional investigation + minor reforms of atf - atf now in need of reinvestigation again -