Help Me Help A NJ Resident

[7998 1]

I'm a certified gun nut living on the free side of the Delaware and want to help my brother find a smei-auto rifle. The problem is he lives in Jersey and wants an AK or maybe a Mini-14 or???? I heard the Gestapo/NJSP is giving people a hard time about AK's over here, is this true?

He is looking for a military style semi-auto, shtf, HD rifle.

(I'm trying to push him into a Garand)

Also how about the following are they legal?

PSL-54

SKS W/Bayonet?

Saiga, X39, .308

Czech VZ-58

Fill me in if I'm leaving something interesting out.

 

Also, If he buys over here it is my understanding that the FFL has to ship to a NJ FFL. Is that correct?

Thanks in advance.

Oh btw guys I grew up in Jersey for the first 27 years of my life and still come back for the pizza(DeLorenzos/Hamilton)and Atco raceway. So please take the bashing tongue in cheek.

Actually I'm glad you guys are standing up for whats right and hopefully change some of the stupid

laws. Keep up the fight.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

PSL, legal in stock form as long as either the brake is welded on OR the bayonet lug shaved down (or both). Most imports have both done, so no worries

 

SKS with bayonet is good to go!

 

Saiga in stock form is good to go, also. If converted, one must compy with assault weapon ban. no more than 1 evil feature. So if you add pistol grip, you cant have muzzle threads/bayo lug etc

 

VZ-58 good to go as long as it doesnt have folding stock/bayo lug/muzzle threads etc like above (AWB). Some people argue that its legal in any configuration because its not a listed firearm, but I wouldnt take the chance.

 

 

Any AK clone is legal as long as it doesnt say AK on reciever, which is anything except for the IO "ak" rifles.

WASR-10s, polish 1960s, etc etc are ok, again, as long as they dont have any evil features in addition to pistol grip

[7998 1]

Thanks Glenn, So an AK is fine if it is a full stock and no "evil features", but what about Magazines?

They all come with 30 rounders.

 

PSL, legal in stock form as long as either the brake is welded on OR the bayonet lug shaved down (or both). Most imports have both done, so no worries

 

SKS with bayonet is good to go!

 

Saiga in stock form is good to go, also. If converted, one must compy with assault weapon ban. no more than 1 evil feature. So if you add pistol grip, you cant have muzzle threads/bayo lug etc

 

VZ-58 good to go as long as it doesnt have folding stock/bayo lug/muzzle threads etc like above (AWB). Some people argue that its legal in any configuration because its not a listed firearm, but I wouldnt take the chance.

 

 

Any AK clone is legal as long as it doesnt say AK on reciever, which is anything except for the IO "ak" rifles.

WASR-10s, polish 1960s, etc etc are ok, again, as long as they dont have any evil features in addition to pistol grip

[vladtepes 1,060]

Thanks Glenn, So an AK is fine if it is a full stock and no "evil features", but what about Magazines?

They all come with 30 rounders.

 

 

Saiga comes with 10.. and 15 are readily available.. a converted Saiga is a great choice.. I have one at the moment but have had several..

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

a NJ FFL can recieve 30 rounders, but cant sell them to us mere mortals

 

He would have to buy the stubby 10 rounders, or get some permenently blocked 30 rounders blocked at 15 (or less)

[7998 1]

Thanks again.So based on that the VZ-58 is out because they don't make 10 rounders, but could I Bubba one with a bolt through to cap it at 10 rds until he comes over here? +1 on the Saigas, I've been meaning to pick one up but 2 Hungarians just followed me home instead.

[7998 1]

I mean I hate Bubba-ing something but local stores have VZ's in stock. No one had Saigas anywhere and he needs to buy something soon before his wife finds out he took his balls back.

[Malsua 1,422]

Also, If he buys over here it is my understanding that the FFL has to ship to a NJ FFL. Is that correct?

 

No, that's not necessary. He can only buy a long rifle at an FFL out of state but he simply needs to produce his Firearms Purchaser ID and fill out a Certificate of Eligibility as well as the other paperwork. Any DE FFL should know exactly what to do.

[7998 1]

He has the card but he would be buying in PA.

[Tactical Monkey 51]

He has the card but he would be buying in PA.

 

He can buy a long rifle in PA with a NJFID, and then drive it back over. Totally legal.

[Jon 264]

Thanks again.So based on that the VZ-58 is out because they don't make 10 rounders, but could I Bubba one with a bolt through to cap it at 10 rds until he comes over here? +1 on the Saigas, I've been meaning to pick one up but 2 Hungarians just followed me home instead.

 

The law says "permanently" blocked to 15 rounds or less. I don't think a bolt will do it. Any bubba-ing you would do would need to be permanent. He can always sell the 15rd mags when he leaves NJ, and/or just keep the 30 rounders at your house in PA.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

Welding a bolt in (or more than one...) would be permenent, though.

[Dan 177]

Welding a bolt in (or more than one...) would be permenent, though.

 

Yet another ambiguity in which NJ could charge you, and then you have to prove in court that the magazine is indeed "permanently" rendered to 15 rounds. There are no definitions as to what defines permanently altered, such as NJSP approved rendering permanent procedures similar to the defunct BATF guidelines for muzzle brakes back during the federal AWB experiment.

 

It leaves open arguments that one could file off the weld or rivet, chemically remove epoxy, etc etc.

 

IMO the only unarguable way to do it is to cut the mag and spring, and re-attach the floor-plate.

 

That being said, I do know people with "permanently" altered 15 round mags, and most likely legal troubles will never ensue... but its something to think about and a risk you need to be willing to take on.

 

 

“Large capacity ammunition magazine” means a box, drum, tube or other container, which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm. A large capacity ammunition magazine that has been permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition will cease to be defined as a “large capacity ammunition magazine." An ammunition magazine, which has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood or a pin, is still considered to be a “large capacity ammunition magazine."

 

 

[PK90 3,570]

Did I miss a law change. Where in the LAW does it say that magazines must be permanently blocked or that temporary blocked magazines are illegal?

 

Hmm.

 

"Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm.

Any person who knowingly has in his possession a large capacity ammunition magazine is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree unless the person has registered an assault firearm pursuant to section 11 of P.L.1990, c.32 (C.2C:58-12) and the magazine is maintained and used in connection with participation in competitive shooting matches sanctioned by the Director of Civilian Marksmanship of the United States Department of the Army.

 

There was a letter from the NJSP that went out to dealers stating that they could no longer sell temporary blocked magazines. They must be "permanently altered" in order for the dealer to sell them to nonlicensees. Since that lettter was released to the firearms community, I admit that I had a part in that, the tin foil hats came out and were passed around. IMO, if one were to block a magazine by any means, they are exhibiting a desire to comply with the law. Their intent is to reduce the capacity of that magazine down to what the law requires, 15 rounds.

 

Some may say that the "permanently altered" portion is written into the Administration Code.

 

“Large capacity ammunition magazine” means a box, drum, tube or other container, which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm. A large capacity ammunition magazine that has been permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition will cease to be defined as a “large capacity ammunition magazine." An ammunition magazine, which has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood or a pin, is still considered to be a “large capacity ammunition magazine."

 

However, that is for the dealer to follow, not the law. I have been told by several lawyers that the Admin Code [cpt. jack sparrow] is merely a guideline[/cpt. jack sparrow], not law and a nonlicensee can not be charged with breaking it.

 

Of course, this is only my oopinion, and you must decide how you wish to interpret New Jersey's dragonian laws.

[joejaxx 38]

Thanks again.So based on that the VZ-58 is out because they don't make 10 rounders, but could I Bubba one with a bolt through to cap it at 10 rds until he comes over here? +1 on the Saigas, I've been meaning to pick one up but 2 Hungarians just followed me home instead.

 

10 Round Double Stack Vz-58 Magazines if they ever come back in stock:

 

http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/spare-parts-and-accessories/vz-58-parts-and-accessories/10-rd-double-stack-magazine-complete-refinished-/

[halbautomatisch 60]

Did I miss a law change. Where in the LAW does it say that magazines must be permanently blocked or that temporary blocked magazines are illegal?

 

Hmm.

 

 

 

 

There was a letter from the NJSP that went out to dealers stating that they could no longer sell temporary blocked magazines. They must be "permanently altered" in order for the dealer to sell them to nonlicensees. Since that lettter was released to the firearms community, I admit that I had a part in that, the tin foil hats came out and were passed around. IMO, if one were to block a magazine by any means, they are exhibiting a desire to comply with the law. Their intent is to reduce the capacity of that magazine down to what the law requires, 15 rounds.

 

Some may say that the "permanently altered" portion is written into the Administration Code.

 

 

 

However, that is for the dealer to follow, not the law. I have been told by several lawyers that the Admin Code [cpt. jack sparrow] is merely a guideline[/cpt. jack sparrow], not law and a nonlicensee can not be charged with breaking it.

 

Of course, this is only my oopinion, and you must decide how you wish to interpret New Jersey's dragonian laws.

The "permanently" part came from Title 13 which is the AG's (Farber) interpretation of the law. There is nothing in 2C (actual law) that requires them to be permanently blocked.

[average joe 5]

The law says that the mag can not accept more than 15 rounds. It does not say anything more, so its up to interpretation. I would guess that the police would try stuffing more than 15 rounds in the mag, to check it ....If it wouldn't accept more than 15 rounds, you would be OK.

[Dan 177]

I know its a guideline, but who wants to play lawyer defending against it in court? Nothing delineating between if it is a dealer or regular private citizen.

 

NJAC 13:54-1.2

http://www.michie.co...=main-h.htm&cp=

“Large capacity ammunition magazine” means a box, drum, tube or other container, which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm. A large capacity ammunition magazine that has been permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition will cease to be defined as a “large capacity ammunition magazine." An ammunition magazine, which has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 15 rounds, as by a piece of wood or a pin, is still considered to be a “large capacity ammunition magazine."

 

Original Proposal

http://www.state.nj....p/rp010702a.htm

 

 

N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2 is amended to clarify that the definition of a large

capacity ammunition magazine does not include an ammunition magazine that has

been permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 15

rounds of ammunition. The definition is further amended to include an

ammunition magazine which has been temporarily blocked from holding more than

15 rounds, as by a piece of wood or a pin. The New Jersey Supreme Court has

determined that in N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1f, the term firearm was defined "not in

terms of operability, but in terms of what the weapon was designed to do." See

State v. Gantt, 101 N.J. 573, 583 (1986). A device no longer retains the

characteristics of a firearm when "it has undergone such substantial alteration

or mutilation that the instrument has completely and permanently lost the

characteristics of a real gun." Id. At 590 (emphasis added). Based on the plain

language of the statute and case law, the amendment modifies the definition of

a "large capacity ammunition magazine" by inserting the word "permanently" in

between "been" and "altered."

 

The State recognizes that some of its representatives may have provided

informal advice to the effect that an ammunition magazine may be temporarily

blocked to hold no more than 15 rounds; however, the Attorney General has never

expressly adopted this position. To the contrary, through the promulgation of

this regulation, the State expressly rejects that interpretation of the

statute. Any person who currently owns or possesses an ammunition magazine

which has been temporarily blocked from holding more than 15 rounds is hereby

advised that he or she may retain possession of that ammunition magazine until

the effective date of this amendment, that is, the date the notice of its

adoption by the Division of State Police is published by the Office of

Administrative Law in the New Jersey Register, see N.J.A.C. 1:30-6.6. During

this time period, a person who owns or possesses an ammunition magazine which

has been temporarily blocked from holding more than 15 rounds shall either: (1)

transfer such ammunition magazine to any person or firm lawfully entitled to

own or possess a large capacity ammunition magazine; (2) render such ammunition

magazine permanently incapable of holding more than 15 rounds; or (3)

voluntarily surrender the ammunition magazine pursuant to the provisions of

N.J.S.A. 2C:39-12. After the effective date of this amendment, a person who

owns or possesses an ammunition magazine which has been temporarily blocked

from holding more than 15 rounds shall voluntarily surrender the ammunition

magazine pursuant to the provisions of N.J.S.A. 2C:39-12 or risk prosecution

for unlawful possession of a large capacity magazine pursuant to N.J.S.A.

2C:39-3(j).

[mipafox 438]

I'm a certified gun nut living on the free side of the Delaware and want to help my brother find a smei-auto rifle. The problem is he lives in Jersey and wants an AK or maybe a Mini-14 or????

 

If you want to help him I would consider giving him money for the bridge toll

 

Last good man across, please blow the bridge you came on.

[vladtepes 1,060]

If you want to help him I would consider giving him money for the bridge toll

 

Last good man across, please blow the bridge you came on.

 

 

about the only problem with getting rid of the bridge.. is PA will still be stuck with Philly.. if there was a way to give Philly to NJ that would really solve all problems at once.. lol

[mipafox 438]

about the only problem with getting rid of the bridge.. is PA will still be stuck with Philly.. if there was a way to give Philly to NJ that would really solve all problems at once.. lol

 

Who have you been talking to? I need to know right now. That plan is not for public release j/k

[halbautomatisch 60]

about the only problem with getting rid of the bridge.. is PA will still be stuck with Philly.. if there was a way to give Philly to NJ that would really solve all problems at once.. lol

How about we trade Morris, Sussex, and Warren counties for Philly. We in the northwest corner would fit right in with the PA mindset.

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

No No No

Mayor Nutbag can stay on HIS side of the Delaware River, please!

And let's send his fellow Dems (Andrews, Greenwald, etc) over to join him in a rowhouse on Osage Ave.

I'll even call in the helo with the satchel charge!

[mipafox 438]

No No No

Mayor Nutbag can stay on HIS side of the Delaware River, please!

And let's send his fellow Dems (Andrews, Greenwald, etc) over to join him in a rowhouse on Osage Ave.

I'll even call in the helo with the satchel charge!

 

Ha ha. You know how few people (present company excluded) know what you are even talking about? Because I bring it up several times a year and nobody knows WTF I am talking about. And I would have used the same exact words to describe it. In my memory I can still see the dangling TV antenna after Goode blew that place up and just before the Police started shooting.