Two options for HD..

[hd2000fxdl 422]

 

I like the suggestion of a solid core door from above.

 

John

 

One thing if you do install them is make sure you use 3" screws on the hinges that go into the wall, you can use them on the door also, but pre-drill the holes so you don't split the wood in the door or make a weak point for a failure. After that a good deadbolt that goes into a re-enforced striker plate.

 

Most of the time you can do this for a couple hundred bucks installed or less if you do it yourself and it sure adds some security.

 

Harry

[Jon 264]

Not sure if it was already mentioned, as I only skimmed the replies... but I would pick a combination of the two. My house was made in the 70s and there are occasionally weird creaks and groans, not to mention my two dumbass cats that knock things over all night. If I were to hear a bump in the night, I'd have the fiance wait by the phone(ready to call 911, but waiting until I tell her to) while i started slowly investigating the home(armed). The second I had a better than 50% belief that someone was in fact in my house I would retreat upstairs and wait for the cops to arrive. I will not call 9-1-1 and hole up in my bedroom every time I hear a noise downstairs.

[Joeybones 1]

Personally I am much more worried about senario #3. Someone broke in my house when I was not home and is waiting there for me or my family to get home.

[BCeagle 12]

Depends on the situtation:

 

Alarm goes off but no other sounds of entrance: Clear the house and check every corner. This happens every spring and fall when tempeture fluctuations make my motion detectors go off in the basement.

 

Alarms goes off and their is a ruckus: Grab the kids and barricade myself into the master bedroom, there is a natural chokepoint of about 12 feet long by 3 feet wide. It would be perfect like shooting fish in a barrell.

 

As much as I would like to think I would cover the stairs, I am not that brave unless I knew there was only one BG but then the best tactical idea is still the master bedroom. I didnt think of it when i bought the house but that choke point can save my life if I can get my kids in fast enough.

[greatgunstatenj 32]

Nope, you do not have an obligation to retreat in your home. There is a difference between self defense, and searching around your house, finding someone not supposed to be there and shooting them. You have to feel your life and others are in danger of the intruder inflicting "unlawful force". If you find the guy passed out drunk on your kitchen floor, or scared in a corner because they see you with your gun, or being fully compliant with your demands to leave/disarm/freeze, etc... there is no perceived danger and you cannot use deadly force for obvious reasons. I suggest everyone read 2C:3-4. Print it and hang it on the fridge.

 

If I see someone in my house at night, uninvited, I err on the side of caution and assume they are there to do me harm. Regardless of whether they are armed. If they don't run when I point a gun at them and don't leave when I tell them to leave I would most likely shoot to prevent a physical altercation during which I could be done harm.

 

If I don't kill the guy, he will sue me. If I kill him, his family will probably sue (hopefully he was an orphan) and an over zealous prosecutor may want to make my life miserable. Regardless of whether 12 peers agree with my side of the story I'll have a huge legal bill. NJ laws cannot be confused for a real Castle Doctrine.

 

Regardless of what the 2C:3-4 says, my point is that NJ is not a state in which I would want to try my luck.

[axeman_g 128]

If I see someone in my house at night, uninvited, I err on the side of caution and assume they are there to do me harm. Regardless of whether they are armed. If they don't run when I point a gun at them and don't leave when I tell them to leave I would most likely shoot to prevent a physical altercation during which I could be done harm.

 

If I don't kill the guy, he will sue me. If I kill him, his family will probably sue (hopefully he was an orphan) and an over zealous prosecutor may want to make my life miserable. Regardless of whether 12 peers agree with my side of the story I'll have a huge legal bill. NJ laws cannot be confused for a real Castle Doctrine.

 

Regardless of what the 2C:3-4 says, my point is that NJ is not a state in which I would want to try my luck.

 

And this is why I have to hate living here. At first, I thought it was not so bad, there were some gunnies and decent hunting and shooting opportunites, even with restrictions, we can still partake in our hobbies. But it is the criminality of the actions that take all the juice away from it. I become more of a criminal for protecting what is mine, family and possesions, then some dirt bag that is trying to do everything he can to take. This is a person willing to crawl through a window to steal or harm my family so he/she can profit. Yet I have to go to work everyday to do attain items. Then if I protect what I work hard for, possesions or family, I then have to defend MY actions in a court. Where as the dead POS on the floor will be honored as a hard working man, just trying to get bye.

The lawyers are what have ruined this states judicial system. Everything is turned so that they can get paid, defending, prosecuting, paperwork, what have you. I am suprised the state has not figured out a way to get lawyers paid for the receipt of our paychecks.

 

By the way... look at what is going on in Japan, watch how the first repsonders are working there, see the level of effort being put forth, it is all hands on deck for survivors. Not many LEO or Mil are being distracted by having to perform security or anti-looting patrols. Why is that... because the people of Japan have a common good versus individual good mentality. It is also a huge embarassement to be caught stealing in Japan. Basically, they dont have a huge population of scumbags there.

Granted they like octopuss porn and sell S&M mags out of vending machine so they are not faultless, but still.

 

I need out...

[Zell959 40]

Anyone that knows what they're talking about will generally advocate taking defensive position while waiting for the police, but I think any reasonable person can conceed that one really HAS to opt for at least a partial or rudimentary house clearing in some situations. Examples:

 

Scenario 1: Loved ones in another section of the house:

Say you have a 14 year old son who, out of an adolescent urge to distance himself from his parents, decideds to move his room from the 2nd floor to the basement. A month later you're in a 2nd floor bedroom and hear noises likely to be from an intruder. Is there any amount of expert advice on how dangerous and/or dumb it is to clear a house on your own that would talk you into waiting for the police instead of getting to your son ASAP to make sure he is safe? Me neither...

 

Scenario 2: Available info suggests its probably not an emergency:

Just the other night, I heard a relatively loud noise of some sort, but I was sound asleep and only woke up from the sound itself. The transition from REM to wide awake left me too disoriented to really be certain what I had actually heard. I armed myself and waited for a while to see if I heard any additional noises. Nothing. No added noise of footsteps in the house or movement noise of any sort. In that kind of a scenario, the decision isn't so much clearing vs barricading as it is A) Investigate for myself or B ) Wake up the whole neighborhood & tie up limited emergency resources by calling the police? Since it ended up just being a cabinet door that fell off, I'm glad I opted for the former [with a .45 in hand].

[gunnyr 17]

I've trained Marines in clearing, and I've cleared plenty of houses/buildings in Ramadi. If I can absolutely avoid it, I would not go the clearing route. The minimum you need to effectively clear just one room is two people. A whole house requires an entire fire team (at least). That's because when you go guns-n-eyeballs, someone needs to watch your back.

 

That being said, my bedroom is on the first floor, my kids sleep on the second floor. I'll do what I need to do to make sure they are safe. Realistically, that's probably not going to require slicing the pie in every room with my shotgun/rifle/pistol/whatever. It would probably be picking up a flashlight and tucking a pistol out of sight.

 

Also, it is freaking idiotic and careless to "practice" clearing your own house with live ammo (if I'm reading the other thread correctly).

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Also, it is freaking idiotic and careless to "practice" clearing your own house with live ammo (if I'm reading the other thread correctly).

 

Just being prepared. What if I go with an empty firearm and the SHTF?

[Malsua 1,422]

Actually according to the law, you do. The law is dumb as s*@t, but that's what it says.

You do not have to leave your house to avoid conflict, but if you can be safe by locking yourself in a room, thats what NJ says you have to do.

 

2C:3-4. Use of force in self-protection.

 

B The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:

 

(i) The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling, unless he was the initial aggressor; and

 

 

 

I agree, it would be very hard to prove (again in NJ presumed guilty until proven innocent) that you could have avoided using deadly force when you went looking for the BG.

 

The clauses below B remove retreat. You do not have to retreat within your home.

Read this part again: (3)Except as required by paragraphs (1) and (2) of this subsection, a person employing protective force may estimate the necessity of using force when the force is used, without retreating,

[mipafox 438]

Just being prepared. What if I go with an empty firearm and the SHTF?

 

You should be carrying. If you plan on clearing your house with your handgun, you should have a BUG. Far better, buy a blue gun and use that. Or an Airsoft gun (more expensive). Don't practice clearing your house with a loaded firearm if you can help it And if it ever might be pointed in any direction that could even remotely hit a neighbor, or somebody driving down the road, or sensative material in your house, don't do it at all. Use the blue gun for the handgun or take the BCG out for the AR, and tripple check, and still don't point it at a window that leads to neighbors or traffic. Because you would avoid that "for reals" anyway. And, if you don't even have brick facade, you need to think even harder.

 

All guns are always loaded

 

Know your target and what is beyond it

 

Never point your gun at something you are not willing to destroy

[gunnyr 17]

Just being prepared. What if I go with an empty firearm and the SHTF?

 

C'mon Ray, you're tempting Mr. Murphy.

 

Dry runs can absolutely be done empty handed.

[Zell959 40]

Just being prepared. What if I go with an empty firearm and the SHTF?

 

I sense you might be kidding anyway, but just keep a hot gun with you if that's realy important to you. I.E. loaded shotgun slung to your back while clearing house with empty & safety checked handgun, loaded handgun on your hip while clearing house with empty & saftey checked long gun, etc.

 

As already said, you're definetly tempting fate.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Glad to see that I wasn't the only one...

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I sense you might be kidding anyway

 

Ya think? I can't believe so many people actually believed me. Even after I said I was joking and EchoMirage said I was joking.

Everyone's house or apartment is different. If I'm upstairs and a perp is downstairs, for said person to come to me he (or she) would need to travel up a narrow stairwell. He's gonna have to barrel through a hail of buckshot from above.

[Jon 264]

Ya think? I can't believe so many people actually believed me. Even after I said I was joking and EchoMirage said I was joking.

Everyone's house or apartment is different. If I'm upstairs and a perp is downstairs, for said person to come to me he (or she) would need to travel up a narrow stairwell. He's gonna have to barrel through a hail of itty bitty birdshot from above.

 

Fixed.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Fixed.

 

Not gonna start that arguement again since I already won it.

[Jon 264]

Not gonna start that arguement again since I already won it.

 

You're too easy.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshells/home-defense/home-defense-loads.aspx

 

You do realize that I'm the pumpgun king right?

[lunker 274]

http://www.remington...ense-loads.aspx

 

You do realize that I'm the pumpgun king right?

 

Maybe, but you know you'd like my Saiga12. On the overgas setting, it will cycle anything.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Maybe, but you know you'd like my Saiga12. On the overgas setting, it will cycle anything.

 

 

There are a few things I don't like about the Saiga12. No bolt-hold open, no pistol grip or hi-caps, and the whole gas positioning thingy. You had a few failures but you told me it was on the wrong setting.

 

Now, if we lived in PA and those lovely drum mags and pistol gripped stock where legal then I'd CONSIDER it.

[lunker 274]

There are a few things I don't like about the Saiga12. No bolt-hold open, no pistol grip or hi-caps, and the whole gas positioning thingy. You had a few failures but you told me it was on the wrong setting.

 

Now, if we lived in PA and those lovely drum mags and pistol gripped stock where legal then I'd CONSIDER it.

 

I am installing the LRBHO open on the gun. And on the extra gas setting, it will cycle anything. I am lucky. A lot of folks have gotten undergassed "Vodka Specials" (with too few gas ports drilled) that won't cycle the light stuff.As for the pistol grip in Jersey, we are **** out of luck for the time being.

[Rifleman1 32]

http://www.remington...ense-loads.aspx

 

You do realize that I'm the pumpgun king right?

 

 

Thanks for that link!! Now I know what loads to put in the new 870 Wingmaster....

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Thanks for that link!! Now I know what loads to put in the new 870 Wingmaster....

 

It's basically high-brass birdshoot loaded with heavy hitting shoot.

 

Kinda like birdshot on steriods!

[mipafox 438]

There are a few things I don't like about the Saiga12. No bolt-hold open, no pistol grip or hi-caps, and the whole gas positioning thingy. You had a few failures but you told me it was on the wrong setting.

 

Now, if we lived in PA and those lovely drum mags and pistol gripped stock where legal then I'd CONSIDER it.

 

My buddy's got one. He's bringing it tomorrow, to an indoor range LOL. Complete with drums. He just did his own Tromix style conversion to it. But he put a rail grip on the front. It is lighter, but looks batshit insane.

 

Hoping he chops it down on a stamp. He's got like an 18" barrel on that POS. Whatever the minimum is without the stamp, I think it's 18".