Probably why you should'nt open carry.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

No one said you cant (theoretically, of course). Being a Firearms Instructor it is my professional opinion that it is not a great idea, however people are more than welcome to carry however they wish.

 

Thank you sir

[vladtepes 1,060]

No one said you cant (theoretically, of course). Being a Firearms Instructor it is my professional opinion that it is not a great idea, however people are more than welcome to carry however they wish.

 

you are instructing a student..

 

when they draw from an open holster they are smooth as butter...

when they use an IWB holster with a shirt over it they are a complete train wreck..

 

they just can not grasp handling the gun from an awkward position under the cover of a garment...

how do you advise them to carry.. concealed.. or open?

[blksheep 466]

I teach recruits as well as in-service men and women.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I teach recruits as well as in-service men and women.

 

my comment to you was based on teaching a random civilian..

your best friend.. who moved to a new area.. and is new to guns..

 

the answer should be obviously simple.. you carry the way that gets you on the gun fast enough.. with the most secure grasp..

ankle holster is plenty concealed.. but a lot of good it will do at that all important moment..

[blksheep 466]

you are instructing a student..

 

when they draw from an open holster they are smooth as butter...

when they use an IWB holster with a shirt over it they are a complete train wreck..

 

they just can not grasp handling the gun from an awkward position under the cover of a garment...

how do you advise them to carry.. concealed.. or open?

 

If they cant get it out to save their life from an awkward position under the cover of a garment they probably shouldnt carry it at all. They better practice. I expect whoever I teach to draw and holster (which is just as important) from whatever holster they are using to be a fluid motion.

[blksheep 466]

I am not making my self an open target because I failed to train and learn simple drawing and holstering techniques.

[BlueLineFish 615]

It's like anything else. You have to train to be ny good at it

[vladtepes 1,060]

sigh... you don't get it..

some people are better at things than others.. the notion that someone who is not good at drawing and reholstering from a concealed holster should have their 2a rights somehow voided.. is silly at best..

I have shot with POLICE OFFICERS who carry guns every day, that to put it lightly concerned me when returning a gun to a concealed holster..

 

if you are going to carry a gun you should do it in the shingle most effective way for you.. the right ammo.. the right gun.. and the right holster.. and for some people.. that might not be concealed..

[blksheep 466]

sigh... you don't get it..

some people are better at things than others.. the notion that someone who is not good at drawing and reholstering from a concealed holster should have their 2a rights somehow voided.. is silly at best..

I have shot with POLICE OFFICERS who carry guns every day, that to put it lightly concerned me when returning a gun to a concealed holster..

 

if you are going to carry a gun you should do it in the shingle most effective way for you.. the right ammo.. the right gun.. and the right holster.. and for some people.. that might not be concealed..

 

No one said they shoud be voided. You dont get it. IMHO open carry isnt a great idea from a tactics standpoint. Thats all I am saying. I agree with you, that I have seen the same thing when returning to a holster. Lazering their body or completely missing their holster, etc. But I think that it is a terrible excuse to say that you cant holster a weapon from even the simplest concealment holster that you have to expose your goods.

 

Let it be a choice whether someone open carries not because they arent trained or have practiced properly.

[blksheep 466]

Its just what I believe. I am not trying to tell people how to carry. But I try to give them something to think about before they decide.

[PK90 3,573]

IMO, concealed carry trumps open carry for the surprise factor even, if twice as slow. There is little advantage when the perp knows you have a firearm. I have practiced many times reaching for my wallet at the perp's request, only to give him the surprise of his life.

[blksheep 466]

IMO, concealed carry trumps open carry for the surprise factor even, if twice as slow. There is little advantage when the perp knows you have a firearm. I have practiced many times reaching for my wallet at the perp's request, only to give him the surprise of his life.

 

Thats all I am talking about.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Open carrying is like having the US NAVY sail their ballistic missile subs on the surface for the entire world to see. Whatever advantages there were to concealing those missiles in the event of nuclear war are completely lost by letting everyone know where they are. Same thing with personal arms. If someone knows I'm armed, they can just walk up behind me and put me down quick and grab it from 'my cold dead hands'.

[RubberBullets 65]

Cant believe this discussion has continued through 3 full pages... Agree to disagree? :thsmiley_deadhorse:

[blksheep 466]

Open carrying is like having the US NAVY sail their ballistic missile subs on the surface for the entire world to see. Whatever advantages there were to concealing those missiles in the event of nuclear war are completely lost by letting everyone know where they are. Same thing with personal arms. If someone knows I'm armed, they can just walk up behind me and put me down quick and grab it from 'my cold dead hands'.

 

Excellent.

[Soju 153]

The way I see it, there are certain advantages and disadvantages to both. The environment you are in, what you are doing, and other personal factors need to be weighed in determining what is best for you. Personally, I generally believe that carrying concealed is the better option. However I can see where one would rather open carry. Like most things, I am against RESTRICTIONS, so wouldn't want somebody to be forced to conceal if they would rather open carry, and visa versa.

 

In many of the places around here, where people can carry, I feel the advantages of concealing far out way the advantages of open carry. However where I am from, in rural New Hampshire, open carrying has just about as much benefit as concealing, and the disadvantages are almost negligible.

 

Of course, one should never discount information and examples, such as the ones posted in this thread, nor should they use them as the sole basis for their decision. All factors need to be looked at. To do otherwise is, to put it frankly, stupid and ignorant.

[Sandy 44]

There is so much training out there in self defense courses on techniques to stuff an attempted draw. There is also the fact that the prevailing advice due to cold hard statistics is that you are way more likely to live if you wrestle and fight someone with a gun and get shot , then you are if you allow yourself to be controlled by a gun ( or knife) and be moved to a secondary location. You are less than 50% likely to die from a handgun shot during a close struggle , you are 95% likely to die if you comply and get in the car or go with the BG anywhere. What does this mean to me? It means it is hard to neutralize someone who is fighting for your gun with their hands all over you. Does not matter if you are attacking with a gun or defending yourself with a gun. Hands on you and your gun during a struggle = bad.

 

Hence , if I am the one WITH the gun , I don't want to be in a struggle with someone's hands all over it. I would rather wait until I had the opportunity to get off a planned shot. Perhaps after being forced into the back of a car , or being forced or moved over in my own car in a car jacking.

 

On the other hand , for a stick up variety of offense , I can see an open carry being a deterrent , much like walking a large dog. Personally , I'm more concerned about violent intent type crimes such as rape or abduction , as a woman.

 

From my perspective , for myself , element of surprise would be the safest route in an attempt to save my life. Having someone bigger and stronger come up behind me or even get right in my face,and clamp a hand on my holster , is putting me at a big disadvantage,

 

I think you should be allowed to carry how ever you want. I would say though regardless of how you carry , train , train , and then train some more. If you feel confident showing it up front with an open carry , get a red gun , put your holster on , grab a buddy , and run some drills. People get in your face real quick , so practice drawing and firing while having someone push you around , have them try to take your gun out of your holster , etc. See how it goes and see what you would do differently , shooting from your back and stuff , figure out some techniques before you are in a twisting match over your own firearm. Take some classes on disarms. You can learn a lot about preventing disarms by training to do disarms. These things go both ways. ( and I am not talking about anyone in particular on this thread , I am talking about the collective "you")

 

I've done extensive gun disarming training ( which is what led me to training and now owning guns , felt the next logical step was learning how to handle what I was attempting to pull away from someone) , self defense courses , and such. Personally I think anyone who is going to use a gun for self defense should train in both shooting and disarming ..because in a crime situation getting into a struggle with your gun is a probability . Unless you shoot someone from over 7 or 8 feet away , which that in itself will come with it's own problems and 'splaining to do .

[PeteF 1,044]

All this open carry vs ccw discussion makes the assumption you are going to be attacked whether open or ccw.

 

Isn't the best incident a non-incident?

 

By this I mean, a bad guy is looking for a victim, he sees an open carrier.

Bad guy now has to think is going after this guy worth getting shot or should he wait for a "softer" target.

 

If he is detered from attacking open carry worked.

 

If BG is out for a score no matter what then CCW would be better,

presenting him a challenge he didn't expect.

 

Since you can't know which way the BG will think,

I'd say go with the method you ate most proficient at.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

All this open carry vs ccw discussion makes the assumption you are going to be attacked whether open or ccw.

 

Isn't the best incident a non-incident?

 

By this I mean, a bad guy is looking for a victim, he sees an open carrier.

Bad guy now has to think is going after this guy worth getting shot or should he wait for a "softer" target.

 

If he is detered from attacking open carry worked.

 

If BG is out for a score no matter what then CCW would be better,

presenting him a challenge he didn't expect.

 

Since you can't know which way the BG will think,

I'd say go with the method you ate most proficient at.

 

This depends on the BG's capability to do you harm, and your relative location. If you're both in an area where the BG is not likely to be spotted or pursued by police, and he is armed equally to you (with a gun), then what's stopping him from coming from behind or on your holster-side and shooting you? He knows you're armed, you don't know his intention, and you don't know if he's armed. Heck, they look at you and simply see a "free gun".

[Soju 153]

. You are less than 50% likely to die from a handgun shot during a close struggle , you are 95% likely to die if you comply and get in the car or go with the BG anywhere. What does this mean to me?

 

Not that I am saying you are wrong, but would you mind citing a reference for this?

 

If he is detered from attacking open carry worked.

 

If BG is out for a score no matter what then CCW would be better,

presenting him a challenge he didn't expect.

 

Since you can't know which way the BG will think,

 

Exactly, which is why both have advantages and disadvantages. Those are things you must consider, along with all the other factors.

[SpecialK 193]

People people now... there is a time and a place for everything and that place is called college...wait I think I got side tracked there.... oh right! Those of you that are against(only in practice not against as legally against which some here seam to be missing) I would be willing to bet that you spend most of your time (if not your life) in urban areas. Would I ever open carry in Newark, Trenton, Camden or even West Orange (if it were allowed of course) nope that would be a terrible idea in my opinion. Am I going to take the time to switch to a conceal carry holster if I am on my ranch in Colorado open carrying and I decide to run to the local store for some supplies? nope that would be ridiculous in my opinion. There is a time and a place for eveything.

[Sandy 44]

Well , that is kind of my point. For people who open carry..how much training have you done? Being proficient at open carry goes so far way beyond how good of a draw you are. I guess my point is if you are going to show your hand and use it as a deterrent ( and it is a good deterrent admittedly) IMO you should be doing some close quarter combat and gun disarm training to compliment your style , that way you're covered if someone wants your gun or your life, not just your wallet.

 

Especially if you are going to be walking around someplace where open carry is not commonplace.

 

If someone walked down Spring St in Newark with a gun on their hip , they would have a crowd following them , curious , unafraid , asking them what's up with that along with a few other questions. It would not scare them..heck it would make you a fun to mess with magnet.

 

For certain crimes in certain areas it would work as a deterrent , other areas it would make you a target.

 

Not really disagreeing with anyone who says OC is a deterrent because I agree it can be. Just throwing out some other angles there for the purpose of considering all possibilities.

Not that I am saying you are wrong, but would you mind citing a reference for this?

 

Educational materials from a few different weapon disarming courses . I will see what I can come up with online though , after PSEG finishes fixing our stove

[BlueLineFish 615]

If you walk around Newark be prepared to get shot and have your gun taken if you are not keenly aware of your surroundings.

[SpecialK 193]

Another thing I am thinking about this is that a lot of you seam that you are kinda coming from the stand point that the only person with a gun is the open carrier. In Free-America when you are able to open carrying in places like Colorado (I use this as an example because I have concealed and open carried there on a regular basis) you often see other open carriers and it is safe to assume there are many more concealed carriers as well. So unless you are completely alone with only the bad guy to sneak up on you the chances of it being the only gun in an area where carrying is widely accepted is actually slim. Just a thought.

[BlueLineFish 615]

You are also assuming others will get involved. I never assume that as I see people play ostrich all the time and stick their head in the sand.

[SpecialK 193]

You are also assuming others will get involved. I never assume that as I see people play ostrich all the time and stick their head in the sand.

 

In Colorado you are by law required to get involved if you are carrying, not that Coloradoans need a law to do that. I do see your point in NJ though. I needed a jump the other day for my car in a diner parking lot in Bayonne and on the 6th try I finally got someone that wasn't to busy to help for the whole 3 minutes it took.

[Sandy 44]

could not really find too much online , except this and it is old..but still shows a low percentage of death from center mass type shots. To get the full scope of it you would need to find some data on how often someone gets off a head shot in a close personal struggle ..center mass shots if you are wrestling a gun would probably be more common?

 

http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/1997/02/knives-00006.php

 

and here is a newer one , though wiki answers is not my usual go to

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percentage_of_guns_wounds_are_fatal

 

That you are toast if you allow someone to take you to a secondary location is a well know stat.

 

Like I said , all stuff i have been taught across the board in a few self defense classes. Better to fight and get shot that to comply and get into the car/building/alley , etc.

 

And hey , CC is absolutely no guarantee your gun won't get grabbed either. Train in disarms and self defense and close quarter combat in addition to carrying and learning to shoot, IMO.

[BlueLineFish 615]

I was unaware about that in Colorado. I like that rule. We're u at broadway diner

[SpecialK 193]

I was unaware about that in Colorado. I like that rule. We're u at broadway diner

 

Yeah I go there for lunch sometimes. There were two cop cars blocking off the intersection just down the street was thinking of going and asking one of them but they looked busy. Was that you?

[bulpup 98]

... Those of you that are against(only in practice not against as legally against which some here seam to be missing) I would be willing to bet that you spend most of your time (if not your life) in urban areas. ...

 

I think you hit it right on the head. When I think of carrying I always see it as "How am I going to get from home to the city (where I work) doing this?" It certainly has shaped my opinion on it.